KTNQ Returns To Spanish News/Talk

[TheBigA]

I don't think it's possible to do anything like Stephen Colbert or John Oliver on a radio budget. Both of those guys have staffs of dozens.

It might be possible if it was a syndicated show. Bigger budget, more staff. Not to the degree of TV, but more than they'd have at a local station.

But really the key is the main talent, someone who is so creative and so naturally funny that he can think on his feet.

 

[Delete My Account]

Which begs the question, why hasn't someone tried? It's not like there's no talent out there for such a project.

My personal opinion is regardless of talent, you're going to have a hard time selling it to stations as a syndicated product without one of the major broadcast companies getting behind it. You'd need a company like Entercom, that's shown a willingness to air non conservative styles of talk, to commit to it on a network of stations. Perhaps as late nights on some of their FM talkers in not openly hostile markets, say Kansas City and New Orleans.

A lot of independent owners are so ideologically committed to an all conservative lineup, it's a hard sell. So that's the first challenge once you find the talent and commit the money to it.

There's a left leaning talent from a major New England market with a diverse background including standup comedy. He started in radio doing fill ins in Boston after a show on a college station. He's now one of three voices on a morning show in Chattanooga, TN. There are very few places for talent that doesn't do conservative talk to go on terrestrial radio, regardless of how good they are. Conservatives complain about the "mainstream media" - but in the case of talk radio, they are the mainstream media. Moderate to left leaning voices are a rare exception. Even stations successful with left-leaning talent in the past seem eager to tinker with the formula, case in point KIRO in Seattle, which canned a successful moderate duo in PM drive to bring in a three person show including a very hardline conservative from their all conservative AM station KTTH.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Which begs the question, why hasn't someone tried? It's not like there's no talent out there for such a project.

My personal opinion is regardless of talent, you're going to have a hard time selling it to stations as a syndicated product without one of the major broadcast companies getting behind it. You'd need a company like Entercom, that's shown a willingness to air non conservative styles of talk, to commit to it on a network of stations. Perhaps as late nights on some of their FM talkers in not openly hostile markets, say Kansas City and New Orleans.

A lot of independent owners are so ideologically committed to an all conservative lineup, it's a hard sell. So that's the first challenge once you find the talent and commit the money to it.

There's a left leaning talent from a major New England market with a diverse background including standup comedy. He started in radio doing fill ins in Boston after a show on a college station. He's now one of three voices on a morning show in Chattanooga, TN. There are very few places for talent that doesn't do conservative talk to go on terrestrial radio, regardless of how good they are. Conservatives complain about the "mainstream media" - but in the case of talk radio, they are the mainstream media. Moderate to left leaning voices are a rare exception. Even stations successful with left-leaning talent in the past seem eager to tinker with the formula, case in point KIRO in Seattle, which canned a successful moderate duo in PM drive to bring in a three person show including a very hardline conservative from their all conservative AM station KTTH.

Maybe conservatives in general simply do better radio that attracts more listeners and ratings?

 

[TheBigA]

Maybe conservatives in general simply do better radio that attracts more listeners and ratings?

How's KEIB doing?

 

[david]

Which begs the question, why hasn't someone tried? It's not like there's no talent out there for such a project.

Someone is.....check out John Rothman on KGO 810, weeknights from 6p to 9p. He presents three solid hours of issues oriented talk radio from a moderate left perspective, takes calls, invites challenges, and has intelligent guests in some hours to dive deep into issues, such as what to do vis-a-vis Iran. Its good talkradio designed to entertain, engage, and educate.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

How's KEIB doing?

Given the very young, urban, and overwhelmingly liberal market they operate in plus the fact that KEIB has two very similar competitors (KRLA, KABC) and a third quasi-competitor (KFI is a "quasi-competitor" because they are not purely conservative, but some of their shows still have a conservative POV), pretty well.

Last ratings issued by Nielson show KRLA 1.1, KEIB 1.0, and KABC 0.4. That is a combined 2.5 for the pure conservative talk format as a whole. Compare that with sports - KLAC 1.3, KSPN 0.8 and KWKW (Spanish sports) 0.4, and it is the same 2.5. Of course sports has a better sales demo, but if you are talking about ears tuned to the radio, the format is doing ok.

But the question itself is a misdirect - the real question to address my point is "how does liberal talk compare with conservative talk?". That question was avoided because we all know the answer.

 

[TheBigA]

But the question itself is a misdirect - the real question to address my point is "how does liberal talk compare with conservative talk?"

There is no such thing as "liberal talk." I addressed that earlier. You don't just take the opposite of something and make a radio format out of it.

 

[Delete My Account]

Maybe conservatives in general simply do better radio that attracts more listeners and ratings?

A lot of all-conservative stations have mediocre to absolutely poor ratings and stay on the air. Looked at WABC and WLS lately? And there's no direct comparison in many cases, because the "liberal" (or even slightly left of center) shows aren't being heard in the first place. The claim (not to put words in BigA's mouth) as I understand it is that there is talent that could be developed into a successful liberal talk show if the right host and resources were combined. We don't know that those hosts would be a ratings failure, and in many markets nothing close to it has been on the air, if not ever, in quite some time. I believe that had Jon Stewart or Steven Colbert been radio talent, they could have had successful shows.

I would look at KMBZ (FM), KIRO and WWL as current examples of stations that do air some non conservative opinion and perform well in ratings. To go back to your example of Air America, regardless of your opinion of the host, Rhodes and Franken actually outperformed Limbaugh in their dayparts in some major markets. So those liberals did attract listeners & ratings, to name two. It can be done. If it's liberals (or moderates) doing radio first, as opposed to directly mirroring the right wing hosts. And not just doctrinaire liberals but moderates and independents. Bill Handel on KFI gets criticism for being too liberal one week and too conservative the next. A host doesn't have to fit yours, mine or anyone's ideological definitions to do good radio.

To the poster recommending John Rothman, thanks. I've been listening to the podcast some today and enjoyed it. Appreciate the recommendation.

 

[TheBigA]

Last ratings issued by Nielson show KRLA 1.1, KEIB 1.0, and KABC 0.4. That is a combined 2.5 for the pure conservative talk format as a whole.

Your assumption is that people listen to each of those stations exclusively, and there is no sharing of audience. I don't think you can make that assumption.

 

[davideduardo]

To go back to your example of Air America, regardless of your opinion of the host, Rhodes and Franken actually outperformed Limbaugh in their dayparts in some major markets. So those liberals did attract listeners & ratings, to name two. It can be done. If it's liberals (or moderates) doing radio first, as opposed to directly mirroring the right wing hosts. And not just doctrinaire liberals but moderates and independents. Bill Handel on KFI gets criticism for being too liberal one week and too conservative the next. A host doesn't have to fit yours, mine or anyone's ideological definitions to do good radio.

Two markets where Air America and those two hosts approached the levels of Limbaugh were Portland and Seattle. But, in both cases, there were initial curiosity spikes. In both markets, the Air America ratings faded rather rapidly as listeners apparently suffered fatigue as evidenced by declining TSL and then declining cume.

As to Handel, except for a summer spike, the show has averaged around 15th in 25-54 all year. And in 18-49, it has not been in the top 20 even once in the last 13 books; in some it was below 25th and that shows that under age 50 there are very few listeners.

The real issue is that conventionally formatted talk is less relevant to those under 50, and most of the stations in the format are AM which also has little under-50 appeal.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Your assumption is that people listen to each of those stations exclusively, and there is no sharing of audience. I don't think you can make that assumption.

Of course the conservative talk stations share audience. Just like the sports stations share audience, the rock and CHR stations share audience and the Spanish as well. How does that advance your point? The comparable data points are the total ratings numbers I provided.

I think a more cogent point is that while blatantly liberal talk has failed everywhere it has been tried, NPR is very successful, both here in LA and nationally. They would never stoop to the idea that their talk and news programs are totally slanted to the left (even though they are); they hold themselves out to be above such base distinctions as liberal vs. conservative, with their noses high in the air looking down at those that are so uncouth as to engage in direct left vs. right discourse. They consider themselves to be radio for the intelligentsia, not the unwashed masses (sniff, sniff).

But since their programming IS so patently left-liberal, they become the go-to destination for liberals who want to hear their world-view expressed on the radio without a hint of any push back from actual conservative voices. So with that said, we go to the scoreboard. Unfortunately, since at least KCRW (and maybe KPCC too?) have music programs which may rate higher or lower than their news/talk shows, a full day 12+ is a blunt measure, but it is the best I have access to, so here goes: KPCC 2.0, KCRW 1.1, and for fun, let's throw in Crazy Communist Radio KPFK (What a waste of a powerful signal!) at 0.1, which gives what I will call "Very Left NPR and other Public Radio" a total of 3.2 (I am pretty sure these stations share audience too).

So to get to the answer to my slightly restated version of your original question - How is conservative talk doing in LA? It is losing 3.2 to 2.5. Keep in mind the signals with conservative talk are very poor AMs compared to the strong FMs that the public stations are on. How would the numbers be different if public radio was on the AM side and the conservatives were on the clean and powerful FMs that public radio is on?

 

[TheBigA]

I think a more cogent point is that while blatantly liberal talk has failed everywhere it has been tried, NPR is very successful, both here in LA and nationally.

NPR is not "liberal talk." Just as KNX is not "liberal talk." This is a fake argument. Pacifica is another story. They have terrible ratings.

 

[Delete My Account]

In most markets where conservative talk was put on FM it didn't do much to increase the audience - perhaps prevented some loss of audience, but it wasn't a huge expansion of audience either.

In Kansas City, they moved it to FM then found it better to move the stridently conservative lineup to AM. The FM's doing fine with a mix of highly local talk (hosts would be pretty much left leaning to mainstream Republican, depending on your view.) The more national and highly partisan stuff is on the AM. FM gets 4.5 to AM's 2.2.

So no, moving conservative talk to FM doesn't greatly expand its audience. Not saying it's not profitable but it's a niche. As is liberal talk. I don't think the market for either on terrestrial radio is growing. Most Republicans I know aren't avid talk listeners, and most "liberals" I know unless they're very interested in news and cultural stories don't listen to a lot of NPR News.

I'd like to see successful liberal to moderate talent included in an entertaining talk radio lineup, but don't have any illusions there's a gold mine in it. I listen to a good amount of the Entercom FM talkers (KC and New Orleans) and some of KGO and WGOW (Brian Joyce) along with LBC out of London. That fills my talk radio appetite.

 

[Kelly A]

"Don't say Gracias, say..."

 

[Dr. Sound]

Speaking of Liberal Talk, Stephanie Miller's website shows KCAA "Los Angeles" , and her show is on 1 hour a day, M-F! The range of KCAA has improved, now that the Mexicali station at 1050 has gone off the air.

 

[davideduardo]

Speaking of Liberal Talk, Stephanie Miller's website shows KCAA "Los Angeles" , and her show is on 1 hour a day, M-F! The range of KCAA has improved, now that the Mexicali station at 1050 has gone off the air.

The Mexicali station and the Loma Linda station did not interfere. KCAA is pretty much done before getting to Cabazon, and XED barely made it on a good car radio to Coachella and Thermal.

Syndicators have the dreadful and deceitful habit of considering any station anywhere in the TV DMA to be in the market the DMA is named after. KCAA does not put a usable signal anywhere in the LA radio market and only covers with a 5 mV/m signal about 1/3 of the Inland Empire market. At night, it covers next to nothing.

And KCAA can probably not increase power with XED off the air as a) it appears that XED and XECL have been reactivated and b) even if XED is off, the "rights" to protection under the US-Mexico agreement are still kept by Mexico; 1050 is a Mexican clear channel dating back to the original NARBA agreement. So no upgrade for KCAA.

And remember, when this station was sold about 21 years ago, all the seller got was $30 k. It surprises me that it is still on the air.

 

[CTListener]

Syndicators have the dreadful and deceitful habit of considering any station anywhere in the TV DMA to be in the market the DMA is named after.

And advertisers and advertising agencies haven't caught on yet? How stupid must they be?

 

[davideduardo]

And advertisers and advertising agencies haven't caught on yet? How stupid must they be?

Syndicated shows are bought for the relatively cheap cost; they add reach to a campaign and the pricing is based on delivery added across many markets.

Many of those shows have quite small audiences, and they are bought as a supplement to larger buys or for advertisers that are satisfied with small individual station numbers but which add up to decent number nationally.

Generally, the local stations only get the show... and no cash... in exchange for a portion of the inventory. The station gets "free" programming but has to sell local advertising to cover the costs and, perhaps, make a profit.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

The Mexicali station and the Loma Linda station did not interfere. KCAA is pretty much done before getting to Cabazon, and XED barely made it on a good car radio to Coachella and Thermal.

Syndicators have the dreadful and deceitful habit of considering any station anywhere in the TV DMA to be in the market the DMA is named after. KCAA does not put a usable signal anywhere in the LA radio market and only covers with a 5 mV/m signal about 1/3 of the Inland Empire market. At night, it covers next to nothing.

And KCAA can probably not increase power with XED off the air as a) it appears that XED and XECL have been reactivated and b) even if XED is off, the "rights" to protection under the US-Mexico agreement are still kept by Mexico; 1050 is a Mexican clear channel dating back to the original NARBA agreement. So no upgrade for KCAA.

And remember, when this station was sold about 21 years ago, all the seller got was $30 k. It surprises me that it is still on the air.

And some agenices use radio markets, some use tv markets. .even when dealing with radio.

I worked in NW PA for a big signal about 45 minutes south of the NY state line. We were considered part of the Altoona-State College market to some radio folk, Olean to others.. but in the tv world, we were part of the BUFFALO NY TV DMA which is what some agencies looked at

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Syndicators have the dreadful and deceitful habit of considering any station anywhere in the TV DMA to be in the market the DMA is named after. KCAA does not put a usable signal anywhere in the LA radio market and only covers with a 5 mV/m signal about 1/3 of the Inland Empire market. At night, it covers next to nothing.

My favorite example of this was the Donny Osmond Show, syndicated by McVay Media about 10 years ago. Their "Atlanta" affiliate was WRBN, which broadcast with 370W ERP in Clayton, Georgia from a mountainside tower 110 miles from downtown Atlanta.