KTSB Tulsa call sign change

[Kent]

When a 50kw station that was once heard over a large part of the country is threatened with shutdown, it puts the overall demise of AM radio into sharper perspective.

Griffin Brings TV News Simulcast To 1170 Tulsa

With the elimination of the Sports "1170 The Blitz" format, Griffin Media has flipped the former 1170 KTSB Tulsa to

radioinsight.com

I had a similar thought. In its last books as "Classic Country 1170 KVOO," it was roughly a 4 share station that beat about half the FM's, including both of its FM sisters occasionally. I'm sure it was an older audience that was tough to sell and moving it to FM probably made sense. KFAQ usually got about half the numbers KRMG got, though it skewed younger until KRMG got the FM. Can't remember exactly when KRMG added the FM, but it seems like it was around 15 years ago.

In other words, it wasn't that long ago when 1170 was more than just a small blip on the radar. This was obviously a rapid crash. Makes me wonder how many people listen to KRMG on 740 these days.

On the bright side, while KRMG covers weather extremely well, being able to hear Travis Meyer covering stormy weather without being near a TV should be nice. Over Memorial Day weekend, I was visiting family in Tulsa and went to see Tim Meadows at the Bricktown Comedy Club at 61st and Yale. The tornado that hit Claremore had just touched down a few miles south of where my sister lives near Collinsville around the time the show was letting out. I can't complain about the job KRMG was doing with its own coverage overlaid on Fox 23's, but being able to check in and see if Channel 6 was giving different details that might've been relevant to exactly where the storm was and what its spotters could see might've been beneficial.

 

[Rusty Muck]

When a 50kw station that was once heard over a large part of the country is threatened with shutdown, it puts the overall demise of AM radio into sharper perspective.

The problem is that 1170 has not been relevant in Tulsa since KVOO moved to FM outright decades ago. So it doesn't matter the power output or the skywave.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

they might as well just sell 1170 to a religious or ethnic buyer.. or better yet, sell the land and turn in the license.. the later probably the better more profitable idea of the bunch

 

[stan]

Sadly, in the days when 1170 was KVOO and heard over a large area at night it was a successful station. And yet the 50,000 watt KVOO often lost to the 5,000 watt KAKC in the ratings in the 1970s.

In those days it was primarily a music station which on AM is a dying idea. They did broadcast with HD for awhile but don’t know if they still do.

 

[Kent]

Sadly, in the days when 1170 was KVOO and heard over a large area at night it was a successful station. And yet the 50,000 watt KVOO often lost to the 5,000 watt KAKC in the ratings in the 1970s.

KAKC was 1,000 watts at the time. It went up to 2,500 watts day in either ‘76 or ‘77 near the end of its time as the Rockin' 97. I remember hearing the ratings were decent when it flipped to standards in ‘78 or ‘79.

Didn’t KVOO have country all to itself until KTFX flipped in either late ‘79 or ‘80? I remember KTFX flipping because my dad and I had won a prize from Superfox 103 only to arrive to pick it up and find the station had just flipped, and no one at the station knew about it or us! Don’t remember exactly when it was, though.

 

[CTListener]

Are the TV newscasters doing anything new to make their programming more radio-friendly (describing what's being shown on screen more frequently, for example) or does the simulcast still have the same problem television-on-radio has always had: Too much "As you can see here ..." with nothing for the listener to see?

 

[bobjim45]

I had a similar thought. In its last books as "Classic Country 1170 KVOO," it was roughly a 4 share station that beat about half the FM's, including both of its FM sisters occasionally. I'm sure it was an older audience that was tough to sell and moving it to FM probably made sense. KFAQ usually got about half the numbers KRMG got, though it skewed younger until KRMG got the FM. Can't remember exactly when KRMG added the FM, but it seems like it was around 15 years ago.

In other words, it wasn't that long ago when 1170 was more than just a small blip on the radar. This was obviously a rapid crash. Makes me wonder how many people listen to KRMG on 740 these days.

On the bright side, while KRMG covers weather extremely well, being able to hear Travis Meyer covering stormy weather without being near a TV should be nice. Over Memorial Day weekend, I was visiting family in Tulsa and went to see Tim Meadows at the Bricktown Comedy Club at 61st and Yale. The tornado that hit Claremore had just touched down a few miles south of where my sister lives near Collinsville around the time the show was letting out. I can't complain about the job KRMG was doing with its own coverage overlaid on Fox 23's, but being able to check in and see if Channel 6 was giving different details that might've been relevant to exactly where the storm was and what its spotters could see might've been beneficial.

The last book or 2 were the highest rating for KVOO am going back to the mid 90’s for most part it was in the 3’s. KVOO am was barely a top 10 biller in Tulsa when it signed off and with mostly veteran djs and large news department still going into the first few years in the talk days was realistically 12 or 13 in billing. It seems like when 95.5 went country in the early 80’s it took a few years but when they became number one they have never looked back. When KVOO owners switch 98.5 to country in 90 it was too late.

From what I remember during the journal years 1170 was personally driven with news. But when great empire had it did they have the hokey sound like all the other stations in the group (Djs were “ranch hands,” lost animal reports, farm reports, breaking into a middle of a song for a house fire…)? Great empire was a good a group with some very good people but struggled outside of small markets and Wichita especially towards the end.

 

[Mark Roberts]

From what I remember during the journal years 1170 was personally driven with news. But when great empire had it did they have the hokey sound like all the other stations in the group (Djs were “ranch hands,” lost animal reports, farm reports, breaking into a middle of a song for a house fire…)? Great empire was a good a group with some very good people but struggled outside of small markets and Wichita especially towards the end.

They even tried that in Denver. Sure, Denver has the National Western Stock Show every January - and it's local tradition not to take down your Christmas decorations until the stock show is over - but Denver ain't Springfield, Missouri, either. (Great Empire's KTTS was a huge success in that city.) It's my understanding that their stations in Denver, KBRQ-AM/FM, were something of a local joke at the time.

 

[Kent]

It seems like when 95.5 went country in the early 80’s it took a few years but when they became number one they have never looked back. When KVOO owners switch 98.5 to country in 90 it was too late.

KTFX 103.3 was the first FM to go country in Tulsa, but it never seemed to catch on. KWEN flipped to country a year or two later and caught on much more quickly, though it might not have caught on immediately either. The Stuarts definitely fell behind on getting KVOO an FM. Not sure if it was a case of not believing in FM, a la Broadcast Associates and KELI, or if it was just too focused on what it had with the AM and TV station.

From what I remember during the journal years 1170 was personally driven with news. But when great empire had it did they have the hokey sound like all the other stations in the group (Djs were “ranch hands,” lost animal reports, farm reports, breaking into a middle of a song for a house fire…)? Great empire was a good a group with some very good people but struggled outside of small markets and Wichita especially towards the end.

Great Empire seemed to benefit in some markets, like Omaha, by not having much competition. After KXKT 103.7 flipped to country, WOW declined almost immediately. It did, however, do well in Wichita and Springfield. I was also told Great Empire stations had better job security than most of their peers. Journal certainly pushed most of the legacy Great Empire people out quickly after acquiring it.

They even tried that in Denver. Sure, Denver has the National Western Stock Show every January - and it's local tradition not to take down your Christmas decorations until the stock show is over - but Denver ain't Springfield, Missouri, either. (Great Empire's KTTS was a huge success in that city.) It's my understanding that their stations in Denver, KBRQ-AM/FM, were something of a local joke at the time.

In the late 80's, KTTS outbilled every station in Tulsa despite being in a much smaller market. Great Empire sold everything, and I do mean everything. "You can always reach a ranch hand on the McDonald's Ranch Line, 865-8765, from the Radio Ranch, KTTS!" That was also why KVOO would break into the middle of a song for a house fire. Breaking news was sold.

 

[stan]

So is the new KOTV AM streaming online?

 

[bobjim45]

Great Empire seemed to benefit in some markets, like Omaha, by not having much competition. After KXKT 103.7 flipped to country, WOW declined almost immediately. It did, however, do well in Wichita and Springfield. I was also told Great Empire stations had better job security than most of their peers. Journal certainly pushed most of the legacy Great Empire people out quickly after acquiring it.

I know this is getting ot, but I knew more about Wichita and Springfield, Mike Oatman was on morning on both KFDI AM/FM and management in Springfield retired when the group was sold to Journal. In both cities the group was high billers but 101.3 and 94.7 were men 55+, Journal move the stations more toward female 18-49, it was still country but it was almost a new format. the older KTTS fm DJs with new music and imaging was awkward to say the least. It took a year or 2 but demos looked a lot better. At ktts Andy and Julie in the morning and Curly Clark in the mid-day were some people from the great empire days that stay for a long time and a big chunk of kfdi’s and ktts’s news staff also stayed.

I’m surprised journal never had classic country in Springfield after flipping the AM but in Omaha Journal had stations there for a long time and had formats on rimshots that were doing a lot better than full signal WOW.

I was told when great empire was looking to sell, the groups that were looking at them (most that got sucked up by clear channel/iheart) just wanted the sticks.

 

[itsTheRolyPoly]

So is the new KOTV AM streaming online?

Just find this and you'll be on it.

 

[Kent]

I know this is getting ot, but I knew more about Wichita and Springfield, Mike Oatman was on morning on both KFDI AM/FM and management in Springfield retired when the group was sold to Journal.

Mike's son, Andy, did mornings at KVOO and later KOOL 106. Always heard he was a good guy. He, unfortunately, had pancreatic cancer and died young.

I’m surprised journal never had classic country in Springfield after flipping the AM but in Omaha Journal had stations there for a long time and had formats on rimshots that were doing a lot better than full signal WOW.

Journal aired classic country in Springfield on 1260 but took it news radio after 9/11. Much like the other AM country stations, including KVOO, in the Great Empire chain, 1260 did the Song of Inspiration every hour. That continued after Journal took over, but I don't remember it being sponsored like it was in the Great Empire days.

I was told when great empire was looking to sell, the groups that were looking at them (most that got sucked up by clear channel/iheart) just wanted the sticks.

The only potential buyer I heard about other than Journal for the Great Empire stations was Clear Channel. I'm sure it would've made many changes if it had gotten ahold of it. Great Empire sold Shreveport in '96 after the Telecommunications Act passed to KEEL/KVKI/KSKS. The new owners wasted no time making changes. Steve McDonald, the longtime PD of KWKH, got transferred to Tulsa after that deal closed.

 

[lanceventa]

Just find this and you'll be on it.

View attachment 7322

Or you just go, go to NewsOn6.com and click on the banner on the right column

 

[Mark Roberts]

Journal aired classic country in Springfield on 1260 but took it news radio after 9/11. Much like the other AM country stations, including KVOO, in the Great Empire chain, 1260 did the Song of Inspiration every hour. That continued after Journal took over, but I don't remember it being sponsored like it was in the Great Empire days.

KTTS-FM did it, too, at least in the days when they simulcasted. KTTS was at 1400 before Great Empire bought the former KGBX (probably from Stauffer) and moved to 1260.

"The Song of Inspiration" was known in Missouri radio circles of the time as "The Song of Perspiration".

Great Empire's programming generally appealed to either a rural audience or to folks who had grown up in the country but had moved to the city to make a living but still considered themselves "country". There's quite a bit of that in the southern Midwest, especially the four states of Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma. One could argue that Oklahoma and Arkansas are more the South, but in any event, there's a lot of culture in common in that four-state region.

 

[bobjim45]

Journal aired classic country in Springfield on 1260 but took it news radio after 9/11. Much like the other AM country stations, including KVOO, in the Great Empire chain, 1260 did the Song of Inspiration every hour. That continued after Journal took over, but I don't remember it being sponsored like it was in the Great Empire days.

Im surprised Journal didn’t move the classic country format to fm in Springfield I think all they had at the time was 1260, 94.7 and 96.5, 96.5 became successful at top-40 and they didn’t own 104.1 and 106.7 then.

It seem like the FM and AM stations simulcast more and more the last few years under Great Empire. Nights and some weekend day parts were simulcasted and the KFDI’s got separate morning shows after the ownership change.

 

[Kent]

KTTS-FM did it, too, at least in the days when they simulcasted. KTTS was at 1400 before Great Empire bought the former KGBX (probably from Stauffer) and moved to 1260.

I can believe that. Can’t remember if KVOO-FM ever did, too. My dad listened to country occasionally, but he couldn’t stomach KVOO. He preferred K-Fox 103 and K 95 FM. Almost seems like he went to high school with one of the Stuarts, but I can’t remember if that influenced his listening preference. KVOO 1170 had been a lot of things under Stuart ownership, including Solid Gold Radio, but it always went back to country.

Great Empire's programming generally appealed to either a rural audience or to folks who had grown up in the country but had moved to the city to make a living but still considered themselves "country". There's quite a bit of that in the southern Midwest, especially the four states of Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma. One could argue that Oklahoma and Arkansas are more the South, but in any event, there's a lot of culture in common in that four-state region.

Tulsa certainly has its share of people who grew up in the country outside of town and moved in after high school. I always figured, if you looked at the actual breakdown of the ratings, K 95 FM got listeners in town while KVOO-FM got them in the surrounding area. K 95 FM was an easy listening and chicken rock station before it went country and tended to adopt the “Continuous Country” position. It was an AC that just happened to play country music.

I will also say, having grown up in Texas and Oklahoma and gone to college in Arkansas, Arkansas is southern. Oklahoma and Texas are not. They have some historical commonality, but Oklahoma and Texas have moved on from Dixie in a way Arkansas has not. If I'm being completely honest, the quality of education at the University of Arkansas was a lot better than what I got at Mizzou despite Missouri, on paper, being a much better school and having far more accreditations. I left Arkansas because I hated being in the South. My Texas and Oklahoma roots did not go over well there, and I found southern hospitality to be very superficial.

Im surprised Journal didn’t move the classic country format to fm in Springfield I think all they had at the time was 1260, 94.7 and 96.5, 96.5 became successful at top-40 and they didn’t own 104.1 and 106.7 then.

Great Empire tried to cover the younger demo in Springfield with Max 96.5. It tried something similar in Tulsa with KCKI Kick 99 and in Wichita with KSPG “The Kansas Pig.” Seems like Great Empire knew it had an aging audience problem years before it sold. I don’t remember the programming on Max 96.5 or Kick 99 being as sales heavy as KTTS and KVOO. It doesn’t seem like everything under the sun was sold on the newer leaning country stations.

It seem like the FM and AM stations simulcast more and more the last few years under Great Empire. Nights and some weekend day parts were simulcasted and the KFDI’s got separate morning shows after the ownership change.

If I remember correctly, all the Great Empire stations simulcasted the overnight programming on AM and FM. Toward the end, I want to say the trucker programming in overnights on Great Empire was simulcast across the company, but don’t hold me to that. Saturday and Sunday nights might’ve been simulcast, too. Despite the AM's usually leaning classic, they seemed to try hard not to position themselves that way.

 

[mmax25]

If I remember correctly, all the Great Empire stations simulcasted the overnight programming on AM and FM. Toward the end, I want to say the trucker programming in overnights on Great Empire was simulcast across the company, but don’t hold me to that. Saturday and Sunday nights might’ve been simulcast, too. Despite the AM's usually leaning classic, they seemed to try hard not to position themselves that way.

Up to the split under Journal in August of 1999, KFDI AM and FM were simulcast from 10p-8a Monday-Friday, and from 6p Saturday until 8a Monday. There were a couple of hours of religious programming that was separate on Sundays.

Overnights were local with Orin Friesen weeknights and Al Thiessen on weekends. A few nights or hours a week were themed (bluegrass, classic country, cowboy). It was good overnight radio.

I haven’t been back to Wichita in a while, but the last vestige of the old KFDI, local news, is almost gone. Sounds like they only run top of hour news a few hours a day. I’m surprised they hung on as long as they did.

 

[bobjim45]

Up to the split under Journal in August of 1999, KFDI AM and FM were simulcast from 10p-8a Monday-Friday, and from 6p Saturday until 8a Monday. There were a couple of hours of religious programming that was separate on Sundays.

Overnights were local with Orin Friesen weeknights and Al Thiessen on weekends. A few nights or hours a week were themed (bluegrass, classic country, cowboy). It was good overnight radio.

I haven’t been back to Wichita in a while, but the last vestige of the old KFDI, local news, is almost gone. Sounds like they only run top of hour news a few hours a day. I’m surprised they hung on as long as they did.

KFDI and KTTS had news people 24/7 and multiple mobile units up until shortly after Journal sold to scripps in 2015, KTTS was live 5-6am until midnight every day until then also, KFDI did a little more tracking but was local. now KFDI has one news person and I believe the traffic person breaks in at KTTS for severe weather updates otherwise both mostly rely on tv simulcast for Tornado warnings.

 

[Mark Roberts]

KFDI and KTTS had news people 24/7 and multiple mobile units up until shortly after Journal sold to scripps in 2015, KTTS was live 5-6am until midnight every day until then also, KFDI did a little more tracking but was local. now KFDI has one news person and I believe the traffic person breaks in at KTTS for severe weather updates otherwise both mostly rely on tv simulcast for Tornado warnings.

Which is something that I find sad, but not unexpected. KTTS had a strong news department. Dan Shelley, who was the longtime ND there, went straight from KTTS to WCBS in NYC.

KTTS also outlasted KGBX, which also had a very good news department under Stauffer. Problem was, the 1260 version of KGBX was a full-service A/C standalone AM station, which turned out to be the most endangered species in radio

Tulsa certainly has its share of people who grew up in the country outside of town and moved in after high school. I always figured, if you looked at the actual breakdown of the ratings, K 95 FM got listeners in town while KVOO-FM got them in the surrounding area. K 95 FM was an easy listening and chicken rock station before it went country and tended to adopt the “Continuous Country” position. It was an AC that just happened to play country music.

I will also say, having grown up in Texas and Oklahoma and gone to college in Arkansas, Arkansas is southern. Oklahoma and Texas are not. They have some historical commonality, but Oklahoma and Texas have moved on from Dixie in a way Arkansas has not. If I'm being completely honest, the quality of education at the University of Arkansas was a lot better than what I got at Mizzou despite Missouri, on paper, being a much better school and having far more accreditations. I left Arkansas because I hated being in the South. My Texas and Oklahoma roots did not go over well there, and I found southern hospitality to be very superficial.

I won’t get into an argument about higher-education quality because that would be getting way off-topic. I will say that I’m hearing that some of Mizzou’s journalism programs are not keeping up with the changes in media; that some bad habits that were present when I was there haven’t entirely gone away. I also can’t be objective about Columbia since my roots there go so deep; it’s where I navigate by where things used to be.

Also keep in mind that families in your part of Missouri and farther north often have ancestors who came from Kentucky and Virginia.

I suppose you know that the original KVOO was established as something of a replacement for KFRU, which was moved from Bristow, OK to Columbia in 1925 by Stephens College. This doesn’t show up on the FCC history cards because it happened so early. As things turned out, I think KVOO got the better end of the deal.