Judy Torres has mentioned on her myspace page that she will no longer be hosting the popular freestyle free for all on sunday night. No word on what she will be doing next. The only hint given was that she "will be moving towards the daylight". Ok I hate edit this post cause I got the answer to my own question on the KTU page. Her show has moved from 4pm to 8pm on sundays. I wonder how this will work out ratings wise.
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KTU'S Judy Torres
- Thread starter Morpheux
- Start date
One thing about freestyle fans...they are perhaps the most CORE of dance music fans and they all love Judy. The ratings most likely will not take a hit.
However, just reading between the lines on what Judy wrote, I do sense that this isn't going to be a sole freestyle specialty show here. My guess is that she will have a regular weekend show, with freestyle thrown in there. Which does make me wonder the direction that 'KTU is going. For the few times I browse "uptown" on the dial, I haven't heard the disco classics that 'KTU had been "notorious" for. For them to play George Lamond's "Don't Stop Believin" is a shock considering the song is current.
I can't see 'KTU go back to their original format since the ratings have been better as a rhythmic A/C. But it does make me wonder, especially switching Judy's time, what's going on....
However, just reading between the lines on what Judy wrote, I do sense that this isn't going to be a sole freestyle specialty show here. My guess is that she will have a regular weekend show, with freestyle thrown in there. Which does make me wonder the direction that 'KTU is going. For the few times I browse "uptown" on the dial, I haven't heard the disco classics that 'KTU had been "notorious" for. For them to play George Lamond's "Don't Stop Believin" is a shock considering the song is current.
I can't see 'KTU go back to their original format since the ratings have been better as a rhythmic A/C. But it does make me wonder, especially switching Judy's time, what's going on....
Hmmmm.....you dont think that KTU is starting to smell the coffee here, with Lil Cee back in NYC and showbot on Pulse, have they finally got that hit that maybe a dance station does work here? Will they let the chain hang low and admit their wrong doings to drop dance completely off the map back in 06? If this is the case, then why did they have to wait for Pulse to go on the air? Then again, whos to say CC wants KTU to be number one? If CC would like to dominate in the ratings, they would have KTU and Power be at the top. Lol, I guess they took a peek at the Binghamton board and noticed how Citadel dominated in that market, and maybe they will come to their senses and put dance back on KTU.
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andreajesus
Guest
I just think that with Pulse 87 starting to make some noise in NY (thank you, Tony S.!! 8)), 'KTU may be getting the wake-up call it SO desperately needs, so that it would go back to being a REAL dance music station (I mean, George LaMond doing a remake of Journey's "Don't Stop Believing"?? Come on now!!) and stop trying to be a dance-like Fresh station...'cos THAT'S what it sounds like...
Andrea
Andrea
d21ofnj said:
I gotta ask this question D21!
Hypothetically, if 'KTU had decided to go back to dance.....being how it was prior 2006, would you want it the way Clear Channel had "branded" it? My biggest gripes back then were the many times they were either late in the game regarding adding a current track or avoiding certain tracks all around. Maybe they wouldn't play the disco classics or as much freestyle, but would it mean more pop remixes instead of some of the "edgier" dance Pulse does? I have certain apprehensions about this...I mean, look how long it took for George Lamond's "Don't Stop Believin" to get on 'KTU's playlist....months after Pulse debuted it in February!
That was always my issue with 'KTU. This time around dance music fans know better.
d21ofnj said:
Why the hell would Clear Channel want to change KTU back after their rating numbers went up? Clear Channel at this point is not going to make any major changes. They cant afford to and neither can any broadcast company. I dont think KTU is scared to death because Lil Cee is back in NYC. Again Clear Channel made the move to get a jump in the ratings and they did.
George Lamond's song took long to get to KTU because they were looking for the "story" of how the song did. They play hit rhythmic records and thats how all rhythmic AC stations operate. Plus the demographics are completely different. Radio is a business not a jukebox
This is gonna be awkward to say, but yes and no. Starting with no, I know, it was frustrating to hear new dance music premiere months after its been played everywhere else. That is what took the thrive out of KTU. As for some tracks they didnt touch, they (CC) were playing hardball and was doing everything they can to make Z100 on top. As for yes, dance music was at least being played on the air, we did get something other than nothing, definitely more than what Mix 102.7 couldve done if they wanted to really put KTU off the map. They did a smart move for the pop remixes and the dance friendly tracks, enough to attract the "average" people and got them to know the "Dance 101". Thats why I added every pop remix I could find when I was streaming 96.7 Party. However, as we all know, this didnt satisfy them "soccer moms" who basically wanted a "Freestyle Fresh FM" and CC made that mistake to cater to them instead of us. If this "shall happen" that CC will come to their senses, that someone could "dare to be different" and give us dance fans what we want, and to apologize on the air how they messed up, then ok, maybe Ill give KTU another try. I understand that KTU has done us core fans WRONG in such ways, but thats not the only station that did it, Party 105 had their issues too. Look at how they two faced us back in 04-05 with continuous hip-hop and "channelcasting." But lets say that KTU learned from their mistakes and has the same sound idea of programming like Z does with releasing new material quick and first, would we (core dance fans) give them that chance just like how Party went back to dance in 05? I know i shouldnt compare the NYC market with the Binghamton market, but if Citadel is coming to their senses, and give the listeners what they want, maybe CC will too. Now thinking about it, whos to say if CC "shall" make KTU be a true dance station, but decides to drive Pulse listeners away, put them off the map, and repeat another 06 move?
I always wonder, how much longer can a freestyle show continue on KTU? And then it does, for exactly the reason Tony mentioned above. Freestyle fans, at least in New York, are kind of like *the base*. I like Judy's show, but the key to it for me is that I don't listen every week. I hope it continues in more or less its current form.
I'm skeptical that this means much of anything for KTU's programming overall -- why change? Ratings aren't too bad, the listener base is remarkably stable and loyal, and billings seem to be, well, better than a lot of stations are experiencing (I'm kind of guessing there, actually). Feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong.
I'm skeptical that this means much of anything for KTU's programming overall -- why change? Ratings aren't too bad, the listener base is remarkably stable and loyal, and billings seem to be, well, better than a lot of stations are experiencing (I'm kind of guessing there, actually). Feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong.
in reply to Dancerev889, since I can't quote on my cell phone, why not? I really dont see the harm for them to just shaking up their playlist a bit. Clear Channel has nothing to lose, if KTU adds current dance, and lighten the rhythmic a/c format just a bit. I mean, where are those listeners gonna go if current dance is added, to Lite FM? Its not like if Mix is on the air, or if Fresh decides to go rhythmic a/c. So the ratings are decent and all, but they can attract more and be at least on the Top 5. As for the George LaMond record, why would a station wait for the story with other sources when they can get the story for themselves. Take the risk and try it out, if it gets bad review, spike it, if its good, add it on more. And if radio is a business and not a jukebox, then why their playlist acts like a jukebox?
d21ofnj said:
Its the number one market in the country, you just dont take risks to take them. George Lamond, when was the last time he had a hit? Mid 90's? KTU is a Hot AC station. They play whats researched well and they play the hits. Do you understand the Clear Channel method? Songs must be researched period. Thats the story they are looking for. How is it testing, does this song fit the demographics? Clear Channel does more research than most of the other companies. Is it right, well that depends on who you ask. KTU's numbers have gone up quite a bit since they made the move. Why would you change a formula for success? You cant think of KTU as a dance station any longer. KTU doesnt care about Pulse, they are two different demographics. How do you know if they added more new dance tracks they would get higher ratings? Just compare their ratings when they played currents to now. The KTU you hear today is doing better. You may not like it because you are a fan of dance but thats the business of radio. They make a ton of money at that station. Again you have to understand how Clear Channel works but more importantly its the number one market in the country. You have to earn your way to get on those stations. Plus with the economy being an issue stations have to play it safe, or heads will role.
Dancerev889 said:
But how could 'KTU KNOW the "story" if it wasn't for the fact that the song had significant play elsewhere? I'm not bashing 'KTU on this since they are rhythmic adult contemporary. But if it wasn't for a Pulse 87 breaking out that track, where would things be?
Also Brett, I do understand radio is a business. Always have. But as of late it is a business that has been stagnant. You see it from a business standpoint and that's okay, you ARE in the business of radio. I get it from a variety of aspects (fans, artists, clubs, DJ's, etc.) without making a cent out of it, which is okay because the New York Dance Music Coalition is not out to make any money to look out for the music that we love. Ours is a "crusade" and we're doing our darndest to do whatever we can to help, not hurt. That's why I came up with the panel topic for the IBS Radio Convention on March 6th because there HAS to be more done and if the corps can't see it, then we have to get to the non-comms. And PERHAPS, just perhaps, as radio continues to struggle maybe someone in corps just may consider the buzz that dance music has and perhaps take that golden opportunity to see where the format could take such a company and see that profitability.
I have not been fighting this for so long so that radio could serve up as my own personal "jukebox" Brett. There's a bigger stake here and we're going to "grab at it!"
icybluelake said:
You're right Icy, 'KTU is doing well as a rhythmic adult contemporary station. Ratings have gone up since the change in 2006. However, my view on the change is something that I've been saying for the longest time now and for the few times I happened to be in my car and tune in to Judy's show, I've noticed it and perhaps this is finally coming to fruition here....the music has been BURNT!
It's the same tracks from 20 years ago, give or take, with nothing new being brought "to the table". And for whatever is new that is out there, it has been argued..not by me, mind you..that the quality of it is not good. Add to the fact that freestyle is still pretty much part of the playlist on 'KTU (as well as Pulse 87 playing a pretty good share of it), with those same songs being given the strong airplay as if it was 1988, maybe they felt there was no longer a need to dedicate a specialty show to something that is actually heard throughout the day, and being the same material from that peak era (mid 80's - early 90's).
Even though Judy is still on the station and freestyle WILL still be played, although not as a specialty show, freestyle fans are upset. On one freestyle board someone wrote, which I agree, that perhaps by this happening it may not be a bad thing because it could serve up as a catalyst for change. I do hope so. But, IMHO, it has to take these three factors:
1. The sound has to be reinvented for the 21st century - None of that "Planet Rock" beat with those high violin style synths. It has to come off different; perhaps incorporate a bit of the "electro" element in there. Freestyle producer Carlos Berrios has that concept.
2. ALL of the classic artists have to come out with at least ONE new track - Something original, incorporating that reinvention. Then debut that one new track at Beatstock. You'll already have the freestyle fans there loving the classics. Bringing something new to the table could get them to open up, especially coming from the "legends", and in that process you can allow a new generation of freestyle artists in their 20s to enter the scene.
3. The mentality of the fanbase has to change - On one freestyle posting board, someone (can't really use her username here) had posted that freestyle fans "are our own worst enemies because we refuse to let freestyle evolve. If it don't sound like it did back in 1989 then we trash it. Too bad because just think how big it could have been today if we would just let the music change with the times." She nailed it right there! The fanbase has to open up to the new sounds somehow and get out of that 1988 mentality. By all means NOT to totally get it out of the minds and hearts...but to allow new material to "breathe in".
Now, I don't know if this is all "a little too late", or if current freestyle will EVER get the opportunity to branch in like it was back in the Hot 103/97 era. But perhaps with this happening, one can either view it as a "death" or an opportunity to "take a rest" then "retrench" with new material and HOPE that radio would be open to it.
Tony Santiago said:
The music isnt burnt. Its like every other genre. Classic rockers a lot of them dont like the sound of today. How about the hair bands from the 80's? The music isnt burnt its some people dont like it. If the music is burnt, then why do freestyle shows sell out across the country? The ticket prices are sometimes over a hundred dollars. Why should the mentality of the fanbase change? They love the music. Should Yankee fans stop loving the Yankees because they havent won a World Series in a few years? Or how about a cubs fan that has havent seen a World Series in a hundred years. Some of those songs were Top 40 hits and will live on for years to come.
Classic artists should come out with atleast one new track? Not the best of ideas. You are going to have some that might be in their 40's or 50's do a new record that is going to cater to a younger audience, wont happen.
You are not getting the point of what KTU is. Go around the country and listen to Rhythmic A/C stations, they play hits and all the artists have a story. KTU will play Britney Spears because she has had several hits in the last few years.
Plus honestly where was George Lamond's record getting significant airtime besides a few dance stations? What other rhythmic A/C station was playing it? I never heard it in Philly on My 106
Time to break it down.....
Yes, some of those songs will live on. No one is questioning that. But we are talking about the "Freestyle Free For All" and the fact of the matter is that the music being showcased there is exactly the same as it was 20 years ago with nothing current based. And based on a few people giving me feedback, they tell me that they would tune in maybe once every other week or so because they could hear this during the day. Classic rockers? Heck, at least they're HEARING today's rock music. They may not like it but at least the music is being exposed onto the mainstrea. That is not the case with current freestyle. Fans can love the classics, but if a show such as this....which has been around 12 years, gets dropped, there's something else in the picture to consider.
Let's get back to the Beatstock argument, since we were both in attendance last year. You've said it in a past post about how there were a lot of younger people in the audience loving the classic freestyle (if you can find that post, please put it back up...I think it was under Jewelz Lopez). They are already familiar with the artists from all these years. Now, if these 40/50 something artists who never did anything before did something current based with a new sound, then you're right...it won't necessarily work. But based on that younger turnout with fans hearing music popular 20 years ago, if that classic artist did a new track....the fans would love it. Add TO the fact that Pulse 87, as a younger leaning demographic station ALSO plays classic freestyle during the dayparts. So for THAT crowd, they know freestyle. Need a reference of someone from the classics doing something new? JUDY TORRES!
'KTU is a rhythmic adult contemporary station. I am aware of that. Freestyle on that station made total sense based on the demographics. I've heard other rhythmic A/C's (Movin), etc. I am totally aware of the demographics. And for me, stations like that cater to that audience. Even though I'm in that demo, they don't target at me. They are what they are and for my intents and purposes, isn't really an issue for me.
Regarding George Lamond, the reason WHY he was played on 'KTU is simple.....he's local. I wouldn't expect Philly or Boston or other markets to spin him on a rhythmic A/C. The fact of the matter is he had that track "Bad Of The Heart" which was extremely popular here and people never forgot about him. The remake of "Don't Stop Believin?", or the duo with Lucas on "Something About You?". It should get on rhythmic A/C and is a crying shame because both songs were remakes of 70's and 80's tracks that were popular on Top 40 at their respective times.
Dancerev889 said:
Yes, some of those songs will live on. No one is questioning that. But we are talking about the "Freestyle Free For All" and the fact of the matter is that the music being showcased there is exactly the same as it was 20 years ago with nothing current based. And based on a few people giving me feedback, they tell me that they would tune in maybe once every other week or so because they could hear this during the day. Classic rockers? Heck, at least they're HEARING today's rock music. They may not like it but at least the music is being exposed onto the mainstrea. That is not the case with current freestyle. Fans can love the classics, but if a show such as this....which has been around 12 years, gets dropped, there's something else in the picture to consider.
Dancerev889 said:
Let's get back to the Beatstock argument, since we were both in attendance last year. You've said it in a past post about how there were a lot of younger people in the audience loving the classic freestyle (if you can find that post, please put it back up...I think it was under Jewelz Lopez). They are already familiar with the artists from all these years. Now, if these 40/50 something artists who never did anything before did something current based with a new sound, then you're right...it won't necessarily work. But based on that younger turnout with fans hearing music popular 20 years ago, if that classic artist did a new track....the fans would love it. Add TO the fact that Pulse 87, as a younger leaning demographic station ALSO plays classic freestyle during the dayparts. So for THAT crowd, they know freestyle. Need a reference of someone from the classics doing something new? JUDY TORRES!
Dancerev889 said:
'KTU is a rhythmic adult contemporary station. I am aware of that. Freestyle on that station made total sense based on the demographics. I've heard other rhythmic A/C's (Movin), etc. I am totally aware of the demographics. And for me, stations like that cater to that audience. Even though I'm in that demo, they don't target at me. They are what they are and for my intents and purposes, isn't really an issue for me.
Regarding George Lamond, the reason WHY he was played on 'KTU is simple.....he's local. I wouldn't expect Philly or Boston or other markets to spin him on a rhythmic A/C. The fact of the matter is he had that track "Bad Of The Heart" which was extremely popular here and people never forgot about him. The remake of "Don't Stop Believin?", or the duo with Lucas on "Something About You?". It should get on rhythmic A/C and is a crying shame because both songs were remakes of 70's and 80's tracks that were popular on Top 40 at their respective times.
The Freestyle fan base for the most part will not support a new freestyle song unless it sounds like it came out in the late 80's early 90's. They are like classic rockers in that sense. Contrary to popular belief,there is new freestyle being made that sounds nothing like that era and are a great product.For example:
Joey Kid "see you in my heart" there's no reason why this couldn't play on any chr rhythmic station.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTKk6amJFKg&feature=related
Sharyn Maceren - Sweet Nothings This could play on chr pop station. She is easy on the eyes too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfa_VzextFU
This can work on chr pop or hot ac imo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cC1wuRZ_m8
These are more dance oriented:
D'Luna/Diane B -Come to me. This is a song that incorporates drum and bass while retaining freestyle qualities.
http://www.myspace.com/d39lunadianeb
This one has a currentbreakbeat style to it. Same artist
http://www.audiojelly.com/?a=singles/135081
Vanessa Conde- Falling into love. This Song has many good mixes of electro,breaks,electro house etc
http://www.audiojelly.com/?a=singles/135081
The problem with new freestyle is that there is no outlet for it to be showcase.Radio won't touch it and the purist freestyle fans reject these songs on the I-freestyle stations because to their ears "it's not freestyle". As far as new freestyle being perfromed at Beatstock,not going to happen. In fact,freestyle artists are banned from performing new material.
Joey Kid "see you in my heart" there's no reason why this couldn't play on any chr rhythmic station.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTKk6amJFKg&feature=related
Sharyn Maceren - Sweet Nothings This could play on chr pop station. She is easy on the eyes too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfa_VzextFU
This can work on chr pop or hot ac imo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cC1wuRZ_m8
These are more dance oriented:
D'Luna/Diane B -Come to me. This is a song that incorporates drum and bass while retaining freestyle qualities.
http://www.myspace.com/d39lunadianeb
This one has a currentbreakbeat style to it. Same artist
http://www.audiojelly.com/?a=singles/135081
Vanessa Conde- Falling into love. This Song has many good mixes of electro,breaks,electro house etc
http://www.audiojelly.com/?a=singles/135081
The problem with new freestyle is that there is no outlet for it to be showcase.Radio won't touch it and the purist freestyle fans reject these songs on the I-freestyle stations because to their ears "it's not freestyle". As far as new freestyle being perfromed at Beatstock,not going to happen. In fact,freestyle artists are banned from performing new material.
Morpheux said:
Oh yeah, I know about some of the artists you've linked. And it's a shame that the "mentality" you've noted blocks the possible progress and growth of the music. It's not that I hate the classics, mind you, I just hate the fact that the classic stuff is still played as if today was 1988. Even with something new the purists don't want change. However, now that a show like Judy is lost, perhaps its a wake up call to realize that, hey, maybe we should open up to the new music while still keeping things "real" with the classics.
I didn't know that last part about freestyle artists being banned from performing new material at Beatstock. So there goes that idea.....
Morpheux said:
That is completely untrue. Beatstock is scripted down to the minute. Each artist is give x amount of minutes. Every artist there wants to try new material but if they are only give a certain amount of time, they are going to play the songs everyone knows. Plus the promoter has paid them to perform.
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optimum
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WKTU will soon start a current dance music show at 8pm on Sundays that's all I'll say :-X. I know this to be 100% FACT
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