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KTVT AND KTXA: BACK TO PRE-TRANSITION CHANNELS

B

Bob E. Nelson

This topic merits a new thread since it might be overlooked in the in ``KTSM VHF 9 TO UHF 16'' messages.

CBS has filed for an STA to return KTVT to RF-19 at 750 kw and for KTXA to return to RF-18 at 220 kw. An drop of nearly 57% in over-the-air viewership is cited due to inability to receive a signal on VHF 11.

According to the filing, this is an interim measure. Eventually, CBS plans to delete RF-11 from the table of allotments and seek a new UHF channel for KTXA (since RF-18 is shortspaced to KYTX in Nacogdoches).

When and if this all shakes out, that will leave Belo as the sole occupant of VHF in the full-power D/FW market with WFAA/8 on RF-8 and KFWD/52 on RF-9.
 
I hope WFAA/8 wakes up.

Since the change in June, they fade in and out at my house and we have no signal from them at my office.
 
Curious, why can't KTXA move back to 21 in digital? I'm sure there's a reason, I just don't know what it is.

Also, KTXA recently had an application to take 19 all the way up to 1,000kw. Why wouldn't KTVT do the same?

Finally, if at some point down the road the Belo folks give up on VHF, one would assume that 52 would move back to 51 (displacing an LPTV station) but where would 8 go? 27, 29, 33 and 49 I think are the open full power possibilities.
 
Spacing to KWBU-DT 20 prevents a move to 21.

KTXA's application is ungranted. Seeking a 1000 kW STA would take much longer than using the already granted 750 kW.

KTXA's final paperwork is in, they want channel 29 when all is said and done.

KFWD would be unable to move back to channel 51 because of spacing problems with KCEB in Tyler. Channels 27, 47, and 49 are available.

- Trip
 
tripinva said:
Spacing to KWBU-DT 20 prevents a move to 21.

...

- Trip
Click to expand...

Technical question: why does an adjacent channel 20 in Waco prevent KTXA from using 21, but not 19 as they're using today? Adjacent channels are adjacent channels, aren't they?
 
Interference to one side is worse than the other. If I'm recalling correctly, a lower channel is interfered with more than an upper channel, so KWBU causes interference to KTVT (which CBS can then choose to accept) but DT-21 would cause interference to KWBU (which would require an agreement with KWBU).

I'm told this is why KWKT-44 is so power limited. They have to protect KDTN-43, but KDTX-45 is not a concern.

- Trip
 
tripinva said:
Interference to one side is worse than the other. If I'm recalling correctly, a lower channel is interfered with more than an upper channel, so KWBU causes interference to KTVT (which CBS can then choose to accept) but DT-21 would cause interference to KWBU (which would require an agreement with KWBU).

I'm told this is why KWKT-44 is so power limited. They have to protect KDTN-43, but KDTX-45 is not a concern.

- Trip
Click to expand...

Interesting. That may also explain why I sometimes have trouble picking up KTVT on channel 11 when conditions bring KXII-12 in unusually strong, but not the other way around.

KTXA moving to 29 will be bad news for KNAV-LP, who also applied for that channel.
 
I think all DFW stations have been SO SCREWED up since the transition. KTVT should own up to powering up and let the ****ers at the FCC handle it!
 
Ah, the lovely post-transition scramble. The FCC and local stations are still telling viewers to re-scan every so often, probably for just the reason you're citing - some stations change power, others change channels, etc.

Analog may not have been the best system, but it provided a signal more often than not. This is going to force more people into the arms of cable/satellite/fiber, and force them to pay for something they've been getting for free. Is this a great country, or what? ::)
 
Megapsycle said:
Reading the petition filed by KTVT and the losses they documented, seems to me it would be a smart move for Ch 8 and 52 to go to UHF. Would have been a lot simpler and less costly if the FCC had moved all OTA television to UHF and could be received with a single band antenna.

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs...h.cgi?exhibit_id=777231&formid=911&q_num=5200
Click to expand...

Although I have no inside information from Belo, they may have concluded that WFAA's current 45 kw on RF-8 and the eventual 55 kw for KFWD on RF-9 may be sufficient to remain on VHF. (From what I gather on the FCC database, per from FCC 302-DTV, KFWD is currently operating with only 13 kw).

In the KTVT/KTXA joint petition for rulemaking (under the ``Preliminary Statement'' section), one potential remedy of a power increase on RF-11 was ruled out due to prohibited interference with KXII on adjacent channel 12.
 
Bob E. Nelson said:
Although I have no inside information from Belo, they may have concluded that WFAA's current 45 kw on RF-8 and the eventual 55 kw for KFWD on RF-9 may be sufficient to remain on VHF. (From what I gather on the FCC database, per from FCC 302-DTV, KFWD is currently operating with only 13 kw).

In the KTVT/KTXA joint petition for rulemaking (under the ``Preliminary Statement'' section), one potential remedy of a power increase on RF-11 was ruled out due to prohibited interference with KXII on adjacent channel 12.
Click to expand...

I wonder how many people who might have only been missing Ch 8 found after June 12 couldn't receive 11 and 52. I've read quite a few comments like "only couldn't get 8 before, now can't get 11 and 52 either" over on AVS forum mainly, and elsewhere. People who had gotten by with no DTV on 8 suddenly took notice when they lost two more stations, or found out when they hooked up their DTV box and indoor antenna they lost 8,11 and 52. Seems to me WFAA would consider the before and after Nielson numbers of lost KTVT viewers in the FCC petition.
 
Channel 11 had a programming note today saying that on Tuesday, August 4 at 11:00 a.m. CBS11 and TXA21 will begin sending out a new stronger transmission signal and to receive it, rescan your converter box.
 
DallasGal said:
Channel 11 had a programming note today saying that on Tuesday, August 4 at 11:00 a.m. CBS11 and TXA21 will begin sending out a new stronger transmission signal and to receive it, rescan your converter box.
Click to expand...

Well, they're not quite accurate about that -- KTVT 11 will indeed get a much stronger signal, but it's coming at the expense of KTXA 21, which will have to temporarily move back to a lower powered facility on channel 18.
 
I was watching KTXA 21 News last night and during the show they mentioned that because some viewers had lost KTXA 21 on June 12 that KXTA was moving to a more powerful signal and to re-scan on Aug 4, not making any mention or connection to the real problem KTVT.
 
Megapsycle said:
I was watching KTXA 21 News last night and during the show they mentioned that because some viewers had lost KTXA 21 on June 12 that KXTA was moving to a more powerful signal and to re-scan on Aug 4, not making any mention or connection to the real problem KTVT.
Click to expand...

Boy, that's more than a bit dishonest on their part. Still, I guess they would hardly want to say on-air that they're moving to a weaker channel so that there more important sister station can get the better, more powerful transmitter.
 
Let's face it, KTXA will not lose that many viewers when it drops back to 220kw on channel 18. They had that channel with that power output for years without too many complaints.
 
tested said:
Let's face it, KTXA will not lose that many viewers when it drops back to 220kw on channel 18. They had that channel with that power output for years without too many complaints.
Click to expand...

The soon-to-be 220 kw vs. the current 750 kw is a drop of about 5 dB. The HAAT for KTXA's channel 18 site on Tar Road is 1755 feet compared to the present 1640 feet at the Highway 67 location. As precisely one data point. at my location in Frisco, the change from RF-18 to RF-19 on 12 JUN 2009 only led to a small signal measurement, from 90 to 92 on a 0-100 scale.
 
tested said:
Let's face it, KTXA will not lose that many viewers when it drops back to 220kw on channel 18. They had that channel with that power output for years without too many complaints.
Click to expand...

I did have some trouble getting KTXA pre-transition, even though I can get all the 15 kW LP stations, so you'd think 220 kW would be more than enough. Guess we'll see Tuesday.
 
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