• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

KTWV free falling

3

32james

yep KTWV slide down to 21st place this time around, see my link,

http://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb003

during the holiday book they were 2.3 then went up to 3.0 afterward, now they are back to being at 2.2 a share, NOT GOOD! im sure Rick Thomas knows this, David said Urban formats generally do not fare well in Los Angeles, and hes right, cause Urban formats are very LIMITED to a certain group of people listening taste, as opposed to Classic hits stations such as KRTH or KOLA which covers alot of different formats that target a wider audience of 25 to 54 year olds, like some of it could be Classic Rock, Classic pop, and classic adult Contemporary, as opposed to an urban Format which generally attracts a listening audience of African Americans, even though KTWV is aimed at 25 to 54 year olds, i think KRTH is pulling that group away from KTWV and more African Americans are listening to KRTH than KTWV, i could be wrong though. in any case, KTWV has to do something in order to get a better ratings share, just my thoughts on this. ;)
 
Last edited:
im thinking maybe they could compete against KLVE or KSCA, there isnt alot of full power Spanish FM's around, this would be interesting to me, even though i dont speak spanish or understand it. :cool:
 
They don't have Smooth Jazz anymore which was a nice addition to Los Angeles' already crowded radio dial.
Just look at K279BP-KOAZ 1510 in Albuquerque (and their 95.9 up in Santa Fe). Two years on the air and people love it, the concerts are getting attention andtheir smooth jazz collection is great. How come a #2 market can suck so bad at Smooth Jazz/AC while ABQ is having a field day with The Oasis?

-crainbebo
 
crainbebo said:
T
Just look at K279BP-KOAZ 1510 in Albuquerque (and their 95.9 up in Santa Fe). Two years on the air and people love it, the concerts are getting attention andtheir smooth jazz collection is great. How come a #2 market can suck so bad at Smooth Jazz/AC while ABQ is having a field day with The Oasis?
Click to expand...

ABQ is geographically small enough for an AM with a translator to give decent coverage with very low acquisition costs. The operator of that station is quite skillful in taking niche formats that can be sold to local advertisers and creating a profitable operation.

In LA, where an FM is worth $100 million and where it would take 15 translators to cover the market... and where there is not much local direct business... it would not work.
 
32james said:
im thinking maybe they could compete against KLVE or KSCA, there isnt alot of full power Spanish FM's around, this would be interesting to me, even though i dont speak spanish or understand it. :cool:
Click to expand...

There are five Class B's in Spanish already... 6 if you add KLYY. Add in 9 Class A's and there is a crowded field in LA.

And KSCA has three direct format competitors with good signals. KLVE has notoriusly beaten off two full class B competitors in the last 15 years, and it's total format is only good for 4 share points....

Ain't gonna' happen.
 
32james said:
yep KTWV slide down to 21st place this time around
Click to expand...

Stations don't even look at 12+ or 6+. It is of no value, which is why Nielsen gives it away.

KTWV is at about the same level in 25-54 that it was at in the middle of 2013. It is currently in a multi station tie for 20th in the demo, along with KSWD, KKGO, KPCC, KDLD. And it is only a couple of tenths below KFI and 18th in that demo...

It's the industry that dubbed KTWV as "urban AC" while it is obvious from listening that the target is Hispanic and general market.

KTWV's audience is about 25% African American, but 35% Hispanic and 40% non-Hispanic white and "other".

KRTH gets, at the high end, 3% African American listening, but 45% Hispanic and the rest non-Hispanics white and "other".
 
Maybe they can become "NewsRadio 94.7 and 1070 KNX" or "News Talk 980 and 94.7 KFWB". Last resort however.

-crainbebo
 
crainbebo said:
Maybe they can become "NewsRadio 94.7 and 1070 KNX" or "News Talk 980 and 94.7 KFWB". Last resort however.
Click to expand...

LA has not been a good all news market for over a decade. Given the costs of operation, KTWV probably has better cash flow than KNX. While CBS has added FMs to two of its most successful news stations, WBBM and KCBS, KNX is now in the zone of being about 25th in 25-54 so it is questionable whether an FM would help it any.

KFWB is not a CBS station, as it is in a divestiture trust.
 
I think KTWV could find huge success by emulating KIFM in San Diego, which was recently cited by Billboard's Sean Ross as one of the most intriguing stations of 2013 - http://www.billboard.com/biz/articl...s-on-radio-intriguing-stations-of-2013-part-i
San Diego's ratings response seems to concur with KIFM being number 1 in the market for the last two books.

"KIFM (Easy 98.1) San Diego, Smooth-FM Melbourne/Sydney -- In recent months, WLYF (Lite 101.5) Miami has gotten its own back from Cox rival WFEZ (Easy 93.1), but not before owner LFG launched its own supersoft AC success story in San Diego. Another Miami PD, Bill Tanner, brought the format to WEZZ (Easy 97.3) Birmingham, Ala. In Australia, the format drove two 2013 success stories. The mini-boom is being spurred by the modernization of mainstream AC -- a more successful process in some markets than others. And no matter how much adults like top 40 these days, that format is sonically aggressive enough that a few 50-year-olds must have welcomed hearing Daryl Hall & John Oates again."

KTWV could retain the same identity but morph into a supersoft AC, with a bit of fusion jazz retained in the mix. KIFM and WFEZ are demonstrating in significant markets with large Hispanic demographics that this format works.
 
david said:
I think KTWV could find huge success by emulating KIFM in San Diego...San Diego's ratings response seems to concur with KIFM being number 1 in the market for the last two books.
Click to expand...

KIFM is 15th in 25-54, and has significant sales challenges to monetize that. The 12+ numbers are irrelevant... there are essentially no ad buys for 55+.

This is just like WDUV in Tampa which is well into its second decade as #1 in 12+ but you will find that it is also 15th in 25-54 and 15th in billings. geezer demos = no sales.
 
Last edited:
So David E,
If KTWV, is basically the same as a year ago, tied at 20th, what does Rick Thomas need to do to improve ad sales and listenership?
It could be successful as KRTH is.
 
32james said:
So David E,
If KTWV, is basically the same as a year ago, tied at 20th, what does Rick Thomas need to do to improve ad sales and listenership?
It could be successful as KRTH is.
Click to expand...

It is always harder to save an existing and fading brand than to relaunch as a new product.

Think "Oldsmobile" or even "Buick". Olds couldn't, and Buick is trying hard but it is slow.

The Wave has a perception of being smooth jazz, new age, Kenny G. For someone in a sales friendly demo to come to it takes time, promotion and a good product.

For management, KTWV is still a healthy big biller. If they change format, they lose the billing totally, have to go for at least a year with low revenue as they build, and they run the risk of not ending up any better than they are now after losing anywhere from $15 to $25 million in revenues while spending more for the launch.

We don't know what kind of timetable management expects for a bit of a turn around at The Wave. KRTH has made some improvements in 25-54, but they have been gradual too.

CBS is a pretty good company. Rick is a good programmer. The key element here is time... and maybe some decent promotional dollars as the product sounds pretty nice. The Wave is not a rehashed jammin' oldies or some-such, and it's got a place in the market.
 
32james said:
So David E,
If KTWV, is basically the same as a year ago, tied at 20th, what does Rick Thomas need to do to improve ad sales and listenership?
It could be successful as KRTH is.
Click to expand...

It is a much less interesting station now than it ever has been. If it was properly labeled, it would be "smooth old school jamz", but that probably cuts too close to other stations' positioners.

Former Wave core artists like Kenny G and John Tesh are persona non-grata on the station now; in fact it is hard to find even one white act on the playlist (no, Barry doesn't count!). And they are killing the 80's R&B library too. I don't know how much they can get out of the old Sade, DeBarge, and Janet Jackson libraries, but man they are determined to find out. They have experience, because they beat Gladys Knight and the Pipps daily for 10 years before finally retiring them (I think - haven't heard them on in awhile myself). Anyway, the lack of currents on their playlist is really quite surprising for a station that is presumably trying to lure in a younger demo. I doubt most 25 year olds even know who Sade is.
 
ChannelFlipper said:
Anyway, the lack of currents on their playlist is really quite surprising for a station that is presumably trying to lure in a younger demo. I doubt most 25 year olds even know who Sade is.
Click to expand...

"Lure in a younger audience" does not mean going for 25-year-olds. The target is likely somewhere in the 35-54 range, maybe even 40-54.
 
I would try what KRQQ does in Tucson,
And play Hot AC, during the day and play CHR, and hip hop at night, that would put KTWV, apart from the competition, and KRQ, has a huge Hispanic following.
 
32james said:
I would try what KRQQ does in Tucson,
And play Hot AC, during the day and play CHR, and hip hop at night, that would put KTWV, apart from the competition, and KRQ, has a huge Hispanic following.
Click to expand...

That's called "dayparting" and works with a limited competitive array such as is present in Tucson. In LA, with a Hot AC, two CHRs, a Churban and several rhythmic alternatives, a station can not be different things to different folks at different times of the day.
 
Maybe KTWV can be just like KSRW 92.5 in Bishop. A *really* good Soft AC with a big playlist and 3-5 smooth jazz cuts every hour. Just listen on sierrawave.net and you'll know what I mean.

-crainbebo
 
crainbebo said:
Maybe KTWV can be just like KSRW 92.5 in Bishop. A *really* good Soft AC with a big playlist and 3-5 smooth jazz cuts every hour. Just listen on sierrawave.net and you'll know what I mean.
Click to expand...

Just look at other soft AC stations... WDUV in Tampa, #1 in 12+ but #15 in 25-54 and #15 in billings. Or the new format on KIFM in San Diego... #1 12+ and #15 in 25-54, and they will be #15 in sales, too.

With the larger ethnic population of LA, KTWV would do worse with Soft AC than with the current effort.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom