KVI "GREATEST HITS" FORMAT NOT A HIT WITH LISTENERS

[discjockeyjohn64]

Having viewed the December ratings and the Holiday ratings which have covered about 6 1/2 to 7 weeks of listenership, KVI has lost about 120,000 listeners from their conservative talk format, and their quarter hour rating is about 1/3 of what it was before the switch. Looks like this format is never going to perform for them. I personally appreciate a full service AM that covers local news, weather, traffic at the top and bottom of the hour, and I think the music mix is good, but with two FM's already running oldies, most people are never going to choose an AM station to listen to that format. I just wonder what other format would work, other than conservative talk on an AM station?? They do have great DJs in place and outside the obvious failings on an AM signal, this could have had some traction if there weren't two FM's already doing this format in Seattle.

Maybe they could segue to all traffic/weather on KVI, similar to AM 730 does in Vancouver, BC. Wouldn't build quarter hour shares, but with KOMO in the same building, it could definitely double or triple their current cume audience, and that could sell some advertising.

 

[bossbill]

Of course you may be totally correct about everything you say. Or maybe not. I would conjecture that it would be more appropriate to have the conversation in a year or so.

Switching formats every few months doesn't really allow for anything to take hold. I do know that 3,000,000 people don't simultaneously wake up one morning and magically determine that a) there's a new format on the air, and b) whether the like it or not.

Having said that, I have found it relatively difficult to change listening habits of "us older folk". We may be convinced to change from Pepsi to Coke, but it'll take longer.

 

[scott5]

Not shocking KVI lost 120,000 listeners but how and why did KTTH lose 60000 ??

One would think KTTH to benefit from the KVI format change, not only did they not gain they lost!! KVI listeners all disappeared ?

 

[SRP]

Of course you may be totally correct about everything you say. Or maybe not. I would conjecture that it would be more appropriate to have the conversation in a year or so.

Exactly. And while we're waiting for that year to elapse, keep in mind that KVI virtually costs nothing to run (other than Mark Christopher & Ric Hansen's salaries) so even IF it doesn't get any higher ratings - it's a success to Fisher's bottom line.

 

[radioguy123]

I have a feeling Fisher is laughing all the way to the bank. They kept all the money making weekend programming and have virtually no cost to run Oldies. If KTTH has dropped to a sub one share 25-54 with all of the marquee conservative talk talent and lost 60,000 cume odds are KVI would have done the same or worse. Seems Fisher got out while the getting was good. It used to take a year or two for a format to catch on. While this may not work, it is probably making more money than it did as a conservative talk at the cost of about one quarter the syndication fee for Rush Limbaugh alone and KVI keeps all the inventory too. My bet is in a year they will double their cume, still not a one share, but at least they own 50/60's Oldies and are on par with the syndicated talk stations. When KJR-FM goes all talk with Rivers in the morning, KVI may be in perfect position to grow. If KJR leans Classic Rock, KVI looks even better. I am betting this is a couple year effort.

Makes an interesting thread. So what format is left for KTTH or other AM signals?

 

[semoochie]

They don't seem to be 50s & 60s Oldies but more like 60s and early 70s. If they cut it off after 1970, it would flow better and wouldn't be confused with KJR. Incidentally, someone mentioned that the signal was poor. How bad can it be if I can hear it in Portland in the daytime?

 

[TVradioguru]

Even though I think any AM station moving back to a music format is going to be a struggle, this move is clearly an expense-saver, not a move to run with the FM big dogs.

As someone else pointed out, and as research plus ratings seem to agree, that AM stations are in trouble, especially on the west coast where AM signal reach in far inferior to that of the east coast. That trend seems to be picking up momentum.

Maybe you can hear KVI at a long distance on your super-special radio with a giant antenna strung across your backyard, but this is hardly atypical with the 99.99% of actual radio listeners. In fact, when I was in the Seattle area a week ago driving up to my island home, I attempted to sample KVI. Once I was north of downtown on I-5, the signal became noisy and difficult to listen especially with music. I found myself tuning over to FM stations for the rest of my drive. Most listeners won't put up with even a little static, let alone blasts of buzzing or hiss found while listening to AM.

 

[TimmyWA]

Just a thought... We are looking at the Holiday ratings. I imagine most non-Christmas stations all lost a bit of listeners. Double digits for KWRM?? Let's give it some time, folks! Let's look again in a couple months.

 

[notalent]

It would be incorrect to assume KVI is getting off any cheaper than under the previous format, remember they still have to pay Bryan Suits quite handsomely for the next two years!

 

[SRP]

It would be incorrect to assume KVI is getting off any cheaper than under the previous format, remember they still have to pay Bryan Suits quite handsomely for the next two years!

It would be incorrect to make that statement. While they may still have to pay off Bryan's contract no such obligation exists for the other people connected with the show. Additionally, monies used to pay off employee contracts generally are not charged as a station operating expense, so KVI's bottom line improves by removing Suits' contract.

 

[discjockeyjohn64]

Thanks for the feedback on this topic. As for KTTH, that will be a one book blip. A lot of people like to listen to Christmas music during the two weeks leading up to Christmas, thus you see the huge jumps in ratings for WARM, Christmas 95.7 and Christmas Spirit 105.3. Once the January book is out, you'll see KTTH right back where they've been for the better part of a year, possibly a slight increase with the addition of Sean Hannity in late afternoons.

Though it may be cheap to run oldies on AM 570, the loss of ratings of the magnitude that they've had surely can't have advertisers jumping on board to support this station. It may be too soon to tell, but it is doubtful in my opinion they'll ever get above a 1 share 12+. You look at KIXI that screws a little older and they hover around a 1 to 1.3 share consistently and they can't sell that station either. I hear from a local ad agency that Sandusky usually throws that station in the mix for $5-8 an ad.

When higher rated stations are charging $250-400 an ad, the lower rated stations get the crumbs, and that can't support weak formats on the AM dial. With an all traffic/weather station, KVI could sell 24 units an hour, and increase their cume three to four times what they have now, and make some money without having to greatly increase their staff. They can use the KOMO news staff for both the traffic/weather updates on a 5 minute wheel: 90 seconds traffic, 90 seconds weather, 2 minutes of ads. People would instantly know where traffic/weather was available at any time of the day or night.

 

[semoochie]

"Maybe you can hear KVI at a long distance on your super-special radio with a giant antenna strung across your backyard, but this is hardly atypical with the 99.99% of actual radio listeners." That isn't the case. If you get far enough from local Portland towers, you can hear KVI on virtually any radio. It's noisy but you can hear it. If you can't hear it in Seattle, there must be something wrong with your radio/antenna setup and there lies the problem with AM radio. If you don't have an extremely strong signal, interference will do you in because most people won't identify it as a problem with the radio and just change stations. 2mv/m used to be plenty of signal. Now it looks like you need at least 10!

 

[SRP]

If you can't hear it in Seattle, there must be something wrong with your radio/antenna setup and there lies the problem with AM radio.

Congratulations. You just proved the Guru's point. People aren't going to bother fixing their "radio/antenna setup" and are just going to listen to a station they can already hear clearly.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

You look at KIXI that screws a little older and they hover around a 1 to 1.3

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Now that's one way to attract an audience! Except for that hovering part, which, i suppose, comes with age . . .

 

[radioguy123]

These posts are humorous. KVI was automated and went on with a full staff and contests the first or second week in January. Rick Hanson and Mark Chrisopher began after the first of the year or second week in January. So we have really not even seen a weekly with their full format and staff and already this board pronounces them dead. KTTH has dropped like a rock, but I agree that many conservatives probably switched to Christmas music during November, December and the Holiday book. I would also bet many Oldies fans listen to it as well. This discussion might make sense in September after six mnths to a year to establish a station even in a PPM world. I certainly wouldn't read much into ratings in Christmas music impacted November, December and Holiday books. Based on that KRWM, KJR-FM and KCMS are the top three in town and everyone else pretty much is dead in the water. Click must already be over too now that we have seen one week or so of their bad numbers. We might want to check back this fall to get the real results.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying KVI, KTTH or CLick will be four or five share stations. It is reasonable to assume KVI can get a one share within a year, KTTH will easily be back in the one to two share range and Click can probably get a three share or more on FM. KIXI makes about 1.8 million a year with a one share and over a million must be profit. (they don't even show up 25-54) KVI and KTTH can do the same or better. KIXI makes most of its money on weekend shows, so does KVI and KTTH. The rest is just gravy. It ain't pretty, but Sandusky and Fisher are probably smiling all the way to the bank with their Music of Your Life and Oldies stations. Plus advertisers that can't spend more than 20-50 bucks a spot can find radio stations with viable cume (60K-120K) to help them. Not everyone can afford a 800k cume KRWM, KZOK or KPLZ at 300 a spot.

 

[equalinercard]

Instead of "Cutting overhead", I'd describe Fisher's KVI move as 'throwing in the towel.'

There's no logical reason to believe KVI as an AM oldies station will ever do much better than a .5 share. And 25-54 even less.

Remember back in the early 90's when the corporate proponents of consolodation told us how one company owning more stations would be better for the industry and better for the public?

Well, you're seeing the results.

KVI as an afterthought. KPTK as an automated all-day train-wreck. News and traffic all outsourced to metro. One program director running 4 or 5 stations. Some stations with no programming staff.

Now the corporate owners have a new solution: loosen the regulations so we can own more stations.

 

[scott salvatori]

Remember back in the early 90's when the corporate proponents of consolodation told us how one company owning more stations would be better for the industry and better for the public?

Well, you're seeing the results.

KVI as an afterthought. KPTK as an automated all-day train-wreck. News and traffic all outsourced to metro. One program director running 4 or 5 stations. Some stations with no programming staff.

Now the corporate owners have a new solution: loosen the regulations so we can own more stations.

ya, thats it in a nut shell. nice to know the FCC kowtows to the corporate proponents of consolidation. so many are in deep debt, i can just hear the next round of mouth piece lobbyists for more station ownership through mergers and acquisitions, claiming the cost cutting benifits to more FCC rule changes. the less players, the easier it is for the feds to control. kind of like big corporate agribusiness. at what point, will the feds just step in to save one of the big players, cause theyre too big to fail. when this happens we will see the feds have the upperhand in programming, and content. call it facism by design. perhaps its just a few years off, but the seeds to this end game are being sowed now. God bless the independent little man, and small corporate ownerships.

 

[semoochie]

The FCC can't be involved in programing. It was found to be unconstitutional.

 

[scott salvatori]

unconstitutional, uh huh, ask them GM car dealers who lost their dealership, when GM axed the life line of new cars. yet, it seems some of them dealerships that were on record of making donations to obama where saved from the Gov't motors axe. relate this potential scenario to radio broadcst companies as well.

it is vital for a free press and media to be one of the checks and balances to gov't. if the XYZ MEGA broadcasting company goes bankrupt, and is saved by gov't $$ bailout, do you reckon its corporate hierachy, who makes six figures plus, and its voting share holders, is gonna have the XYZ MEGA, broadcast, any negative gov't stuff on its talk channels. sure it wont be by official FCC dictate, but.......

 

[TVradioguru]

There's no logical reason to believe KVI as an AM oldies station will ever do much better than a .5 share. And 25-54 even less.

Remember back in the early 90's when the corporate proponents of consolodation told us how one company owning more stations would be better for the industry and better for the public?

Well, you're seeing the results.

Now the corporate owners have a new solution: loosen the regulations so we can own more stations.

So is your claim that somehow if multi-station ownership had not been allowed, that AM stations would somehow be just as popular as say, thirty years ago? Really! If so, I fail to understand how AM stations struggling in an age with other sources, increased audio quality and content availability have anything to do with multiple ownership. I argue that had an independent owner tried to do expensive talk, they wouldn't have lasted this long nor had any better luck than a group owner.

Ask Bill if he could afford to do live political talk and news these days. Oh wait, doesn't Bill own more than one station?

Not like Fisher is that large of an owner anyway with what, three stations in the market? How has owning three stations caused the decline of KVI?