KVI is Oldies

[Scoobyfan1]

I have to admit all the previous posts do have good points; I guess it was just wishful thinking about KMCQ from me.

 

[SRP]

I have to admit all the previous posts do have good points; I guess it was just wishful thinking about KMCQ from me.

And I think it's safe to say that us "corporate types" would LOVE to program a station that TRULY plays "whatever we want".

 

[searadiofreak]

I have to admit all the previous posts do have good points; I guess it was just wishful thinking about KMCQ from me.

And I think it's safe to say that us "corporate types" would LOVE to program a station that TRULY plays "whatever we want".
[/quote

So true! I hate to even admit this, but I even put together my ideal oldies station a year or two ago, just for fun. Would I ever put it on the air? Nope.
(BTW, it was based on lite hits from about 1967 to 1982.) Would be a boutique station for sure, but never something I would recommend for anyone hoping to make money. )

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

One of the best online services ever was just a demo ... Guy Zapoleon's "Rhythm and Gold" had online stream that had every song separated with jingle from one of the classic national Top 40's --- and the music mix was fairly deep. I would listen to that much of the day and never felt "burnout". Not sure if the online version was same as the mix they were promoting for syndication -- not even sure if it's ever gained any traction.

 

[MarkAndrews]

Rhythm & Gold was a WONDERFUL stream...Wish it was still going...

 

[klutch00]

Well, it's been almost a year since KVI signed on with their oldies format and they haven't gotten better than a .2 share. I've been listening to them online tonight and while I've noticed they've been playing music from different decades and from different genres, their playlist lacks innovation IMNSHO.

It doesn't take a genius to know that running a music station on AM in a major metropolitan area in 2011 takes serious guts! With that said, When you're running such an operation you'd better damned well have a reason for listeners to flip that band switch over! Running a 'cookie cutter' playlist is the wrong way to go! I say either get serious or find a format they can compete in!

 

[TVradioguru]

Well, it's been almost a year since KVI signed on with their oldies format and they haven't gotten better than a .2 share.

Really! So a station, AM none the less, performing a major format change is supposed to rocket to the top of the genre' in less than a year? What planet do you reside? The fact that the station does a .2 6+ and even better in their target demo would indicate to me that in less than a year their music is doing well at hitting the mark.

It doesn't take a genius to know that running a music station on AM in a major metropolitan area in 2011 takes serious guts! With that said, When you're running such an operation you'd better damned well have a reason for listeners to flip that band switch over! Running a 'cookie cutter' playlist is the wrong way to go! I say either get serious or find a format they can compete in!

So how many AM music stations over the past ten years have you run Mr. or Ms. Genius? Oh, and always enjoy that 'cookie cutter' comment that people who don't know the business of radio love to throw out. I believe the term is research and has nothing to do with cookies. Perhaps you're a baker by profession? That would explain your lack of understanding of how radio works.

 

[scott salvatori]

thatll learn you up clutch...

lets get this right, g.ru says"the fact that the station is doing a point two share......in less than a year, their music is doing well at hitting the mark". really, how low can you go? what mark are they hitting? very few tune to AM to hear the same FM oldies lame. except for a few of us old school guys, who only have AM in some of our vehicles. perhaps fisher should consider announcers, who know the music, and have a hair or two of freedom. why else would you tune to AM, but to hear the real deal? hmm, would you tune into 570 AM, if danny holiday had an afternoon drivetime shift, and some FREEDOM 570 KVI?

g'rus, often closing question to the plaintiff, which wins the case everytime: so how many stations have you run in the last ten years mr genius?

 

[radioguy123]

Guru is actually right on. Options are few for AM stations. You can go Talk, against KUOW and KIRO on FM, KOMO on AM and a group of talk stations all under a two share in key demos including KTTH, KJR, KIRO-AM, KPTK, KKOL, KCIS, KONW, KKNW, KRKO, 1590, and the list goes on. What form of Talk would you do against all of this competition? KTTH has all the key conservative syndicated talent, along with KCIS and KKOL and all have been in ratings decline since last Fall. (probably why KVI changed). KVI had a local talk talent lineup and ratings were in decline and I would guess flipped format because local talk and news costs big money. I would bet KVI is more profitable today and ahead of most of the AM stations listed above, but in the world of PPM everyone wants instant ratings results too, not just profit.

What would you put on an AM today that would get you in the top 15 to 20 in ratings in six months and become instantly profitable? (that isn't already on the AM dial with multiple competitors?)

 

[klutch00]

Well, it's been almost a year since KVI signed on with their oldies format and they haven't gotten better than a .2 share.

Really!So a station, AM none the less, performing a major format change is supposed to rocket to the top of the genre' in less than a year? What planet do you reside? The fact that the station does a .2 6+ and even better in their target demo would indicate to me that in less than a year their music is doing well at hitting the mark.

Have you seen the success of WROW Albanyhttp://albanymagic.com/? They're in 9th place and the 2nd ranked AM in that market! Only WGY is doing better and even they now have an FM translator! Granted, WROW is running a Traditional MOR format there which was exiled from a 6-kw FM on which the format was popular; and when you move a format form an FM to AM, many times the audience doesn't follow. The powers-that-be at Pamal seem to have defied the odds so far.

It doesn't take a genius to know that running a music station on AM in a major metropolitan area in 2011 takes serious guts! With that said, When you're running such an operation you'd better damned well have a reason for listeners to flip that band switch over! Running a 'cookie cutter' playlist is the wrong way to go! I say either get serious or find a format they can compete in!

So how many AM music stations over the past ten years have you run Mr. or Ms. Genius? Oh, and always enjoy that 'cookie cutter' comment that people who don't know the business of radio love to throw out. I believe the term is research and has nothing to do with cookies. Perhaps you're a baker by profession? That would explain your lack of understanding of how radio works.

Nice cheap shot there about 'cookie cutting' and 'baking'! How many radio stations I have run is irrelevant! The fact of the matter remains that you cannot run an AM music station in 2011 and expect the listeners to come flocking to you unless you offer something that is unique! If you're not the big kid on the block (and in 2011, that's the 50-100Kw FM flamethrower; even the 6-kilowatters have some clout), you MUST innovate! You can't go head to head with them (and 'them' in this case includes KJR-FM and KMCQ)! You'll get your breakfast, lunch AND dinner all eaten! Again, I must ask why settle for mediocre sound quality on AM when you can have two FM station which meet the public's needs?

BTW, I didn't bother to say this earlier, but I'll say it now: I didn't care for your attacks against Bob Mathers earlier in this thread! He has done quite a good job making things happen at his station in suburban Baltimore where they still seem to be going strong!

 

[klutch00]

Guru is actually right on. Options are few for AM stations. You can go Talk, against KUOW and KIRO on FM, KOMO on AM and a group of talk stations all under a two share in key demos including KTTH, KJR, KIRO-AM, KPTK, KKOL, KCIS, KONW, KKNW, KRKO, 1590, and the list goes on. What form of Talk would you do against all of this competition? KTTH has all the key conservative syndicated talent, along with KCIS and KKOL and all have been in ratings decline since last Fall. (probably why KVI changed). KVI had a local talk talent lineup and ratings were in decline and I would guess flipped format because local talk and news costs big money. I would bet KVI is more profitable today and ahead of most of the AM stations listed above, but in the world of PPM everyone wants instant ratings results too, not just profit.

What would you put on an AM today that would get you in the top 15 to 20 in ratings in six months and become instantly profitable? (that isn't already on the AM dial with multiple competitors?)

With Seattle's market being what (I believe) it is, with an oldies format, I'd go in depth on artists that I feel the target audience could relate to. I've included titles earlier in this thread which I feel would be appropriate. Other options might include a traditional MOR format. Being that KIXI has a good portion of that audience, I'd play some in-depth album cuts by artists such as John Denver, Carpenters, Elton John and the like. A radical option might be to go all comedy using the satellite service of http://247comedy.com/. Another radical option might be to offer something like a local music format, similar to what KKSN 910 offers. Yeah, I know it ain't bringing in the ratings, but they offer something unique. With such a model, it may be better for the station to rely less on commercial revenue and to instead rely on donations to keep the station afloat. It may be better for the station to also offer a HD-FM channel much the way that KKSN does.

 

[AQH]

With Seattle's market being what (I believe) it is, with an oldies format, I'd go in depth on artists that I feel the target audience could relate to. I've included titles earlier in this thread which I feel would be appropriate. Other options might include a traditional MOR format. Being that KIXI has a good portion of that audience, I'd play some in-depth album cuts by artists such as John Denver, Carpenters, Elton John and the like. A radical option might be to go all comedy using the satellite service of http://247comedy.com/. Another radical option might be to offer something like a local music format, similar to what KKSN 910 offers. Yeah, I know it ain't bringing in the ratings, but they offer something unique. With such a model, it may be better for the station to rely less on commercial revenue and to instead rely on donations to keep the station afloat. It may be better for the station to also offer a HD-FM channel much the way that KKSN does.

I'm confused. Earlier, you pointed out KVI's poor ratings as reasoning to change format. But your alternative is something that you admit wouldn't bring in ratings?

 

[TVradioguru]

Have you seen the success of WROW Albanyhttp://albanymagic.com/? They're in 9th place and the 2nd ranked AM in that market! Only WGY is doing better and even they now have an FM translator!

Okay let me do some simple math for you Mr. Cookie Cutter: Albany market has something like seven or eight stations directly in the Albany market and another eighteen between Schenectady, Troy, Rotterdam, Hoosick Falls, Catskill, and stations out of the area from MA. and VT. Seattle/Tacoma has over sixty in-market stations. Being ranked number 2 is a seven station market where admirable, is not extraordinary. Nor is your weak comparison attempt between a 100+ market size and market 14. Not only are the number of stations and population count vastly different, but the markets and tastes of listeners differ as well. I've seen research results from both coasts with the only similarity being; people who listen to the radio want to hear familiar music. That means conducting research, not licking ones finger and sticking it up into the air when selecting music, then calling it unique.

Nice cheap shot there about 'cookie cutting' and 'baking'! How many radio stations I have run is irrelevant! The fact of the matter remains that you cannot run an AM music station in 2011 and expect the listeners to come flocking to you unless you offer something that is unique! If you're not the big kid on the block (and in 2011, that's the 50-100Kw FM flamethrower; even the 6-kilowatters have some clout), you MUST innovate! You can't go head to head with them (and 'them' in this case includes KJR-FM and KMCQ)! You'll get your breakfast, lunch AND dinner all eaten! Again, I must ask why settle for mediocre sound quality on AM when you can have two FM station which meet the public's needs? say this earlier, but I'll say it now: I didn't care for your attacks against Bob Mathers earlier in this thread! He has done quite a good job making things happen at his station in suburban Baltimore where they still seem to be going strong!

Interesting how someone who admits to having no experience and in fact claims that experience is irrelevant makes such bold statements. Chances are you missed it, but you make someone else's point here in your thread; that is a station like KVI who is already fighting with both hands tied behind it's back being an AM, is up against many more powerful stations, several of them FM wth a clear advantage. Yet KVI is still pretty solid in demo and doing it at a much lower cost of operation than probably all of the stations it used to compete against as talk. Unlike you, Mr. Cookie Cutter, from a business perspective that is a clear win for KVI.

Oh and regarding your accusing me of hurting Bob Mathers feelings? I've heard the name but don't know who who he is. Or was that Jerry Mathers I offended? They all start to run together after a while..

 

[klutch00]

Okay let me do some simple math for you Mr. Cookie Cutter: Albany market has something like seven or eight stations directly in the Albany market and another eighteen between Schenectady, Troy, Rotterdam, Hoosick Falls, Catskill, and stations out of the area from MA. and VT.Seattle/Tacoma has over sixty in-market stations. Being ranked number 2 is a seven station market where admirable, is not extraordinary. Nor is your weak comparison attempt between a 100+ market size and market 14. Not only are the number of stations and population count vastly different, but the markets and tastes of listeners differ as well. I've seen research results from both coasts with the only similarity being; people who listen to the radio want to hear familiar music. That means conducting research, not licking ones finger and sticking it up into the air when selecting music, then calling it unique.

First off; Albany, Schenectady and Troy are for all intents and purposes considered one market. While I didn't come out and say it, I thought I had implied that. I'm sorry I didn't make this clear to you and others. The stations ranked were from the entire NY Capital area. Check this out for yourself: http://www.radio-info.com/markets/albany-schenectady-troy. Second, A-S-T is not 100+ in size, but 63rd! Yes, I know Seattle has more stations and is a much bigger market, but just because something works in a medium-sized market doesn't mean it can't succeed in a larger market.

Nice cheap shot there about 'cookie cutting' and 'baking'! How many radio stations I have run is irrelevant! The fact of the matter remains that you cannot run an AM music station in 2011 and expect the listeners to come flocking to you unless you offer something that is unique! If you're not the big kid on the block (and in 2011, that's the 50-100Kw FM flamethrower; even the 6-kilowatters have some clout), you MUST innovate! You can't go head to head with them (and 'them' in this case includes KJR-FM and KMCQ)! You'll get your breakfast, lunch AND dinner all eaten! Again, I must ask why settle for mediocre sound quality on AM when you can have two FM station which meet the public's needs? say this earlier, but I'll say it now: I didn't care for your attacks against Bob Mathers earlier in this thread! He has done quite a good job making things happen at his station in suburban Baltimore where they still seem to be going strong!

Interesting how someone who admits to having no experience and in fact claims that experience is irrelevant makes such bold statements. Chances are you missed it, but you make someone else's point here in your thread; that is a station like KVI who is already fighting with both hands tied behind it's back being an AM, is up against many more powerful stations, several of them FM with a clear advantage. Yet KVI is still pretty solid in demo and doing it at a much lower cost of operation than probably all of the stations it used to compete against as talk. Unlike you, Mr. Cookie Cutter, from a business perspective that is a clear win for KVI.

Oh and regarding your accusing me of hurting Bob Mathers feelings? I've heard the name but don't know who who he is. Or was that Jerry Mathers I offended? They all start to run together after a while..

On your last point, go look at an earlier post on this thread and you'll know who I mean! Something that hasn't been answered is what incentive does the average or casual listener have to tune in KVI when there are two similar-formatted stations on FM that can do the same job? It would be different if the two FMs didn't exist or if KVI offered something unique, but I sure as hell don't see any of that!

Last but not least, your cheap shots do nothing to boost your credibility!

 

[klutch00]

With Seattle's market being what (I believe) it is, with an oldies format, I'd go in depth on artists that I feel the target audience could relate to. I've included titles earlier in this thread which I feel would be appropriate. Other options might include a traditional MOR format. Being that KIXI has a good portion of that audience, I'd play some in-depth album cuts by artists such as John Denver, Carpenters, Elton John and the like. A radical option might be to go all comedy using the satellite service of http://247comedy.com/. Another radical option might be to offer something like a local music format, similar to what KKSN 910 offers. Yeah, I know it ain't bringing in the ratings, but they offer something unique. With such a model, it may be better for the station to rely less on commercial revenue and to instead rely on donations to keep the station afloat. It may be better for the station to also offer a HD-FM channel much the way that KKSN does.

I'm confused. Earlier, you pointed out KVI's poor ratings as reasoning to change format. But your alternative is something that you admit wouldn't bring in ratings?

I said that going to an alternative, local music format similar to that of what KKSN 910 Vancouver WA http://www.947.fm/(go to '94/7 too' link to listen live or go to: http://player.streamtheworld.com/_players/entercom/player/?id=KNRKHD) offers will likely have a difficult time bringing in the necessary ratings. This is why I suggested that the station simulcast an HD-FM signal and/or that it survive on alternative sources of income such as donations and so forth. The other choices I mentioned might have a better chance at getting the necessary ratings and/or revenue through conventional means to keep it going, but the station must give listeners some incentive to tune in.

Another consideration I might suggest may have been for KVI to go smooth jazz (either local, satellite or a simulcast of KKWF 100.7 HD 2); just random thoughts.

 

[Steenman]

As I understand it, the latest national statistics say that pretty much all the radio growth is in the Hispanic segment. Sure there is a weak AM and a rimshot FM here but no real player. I get that we're pretty vanilla but that's where the future growth is and with Fisher already in that business I wonder if they wouldn't think about going down that road.

 

[scott salvatori]

if fisher wants good numbers for KVI, the recipe is quite simple, and cheap. go back to what you was doin', syndicated talk! okay, so all the big ratings talk hacks are taken by KTTH. who cares, theyre all burnt out, and mediocre ratings headed down hill. so grow a pair, and ad alex jones live at 9AM til noon, before some other AM outlet discovers him. yep, he will bring in the numbers! also, ad michael savage live at 3pm, like KVI used to do. as far as the rest of the day, genesis communications network (GCN) offers up an amazing lineup of dozens of interesting and informative talk hosts and subjects.

 

[Bongwater]

KVI??

Hmmm.....Smooth Jazz on AM? Interesting......

The minds who absolutely insist AM can't be worth anything whatsoever are the same ones who think constipating the FM band with news/talk and sports blabber is a neat idea. Go figure.

However, aside from raising funds for a non-profit cause, grovelling for donations is generally frowned upon (at least.) on commercial stations.

KVI would have to go non-com/public in order to exist on public donations. I'm hearing NWPR would LOVE a Seattle outlet for their "NPR News & Information" feed.........

Solid Gold Oldies are one thing. But I kinda get the feeling John Carlson and Kirby Wilbur's heads would absolutely spin off their necks if THAT were to be the eventual fate of the radio station that launched their careers and the conservative talk radio movement in general.......

 

[klutch00]

Re: KVI??

Hmmm.....Smooth Jazz on AM? Interesting......

The staion in in a much smaller market, but KBDB Sparks NV is doing it. Moreover, from what I've heard, Broadcast Architecture has made pleas to struggling AMs to consider picking up its network.

The minds who absolutely insist AM can't be worth anything whatsoever are the same ones who think constipating the FM band with news/talk and sports blabber is a neat idea. Go figure.

Tell me about it! I think AM can and should be saved somehow and someway. I also think putting non-music formats on FM is a bit ridiculous. I may understand one or two per major market, but no more.

However, aside from raising funds for a non-profit cause, grovelling for donations is generally frowned upon (at least.) on commercial stations.

KVI would have to go non-com/public in order to exist on public donations. I'm hearing NWPR would LOVE a Seattle outlet for their "NPR News & Information" feed.........

There are some AM stations which offer something unique that survive partially or completely on donations Bob Bittner owns two standards/EZ stations WJIB Cambridge MA and WJTO Bath ME, which survive completely on donations and paid Sunday programming. WPAZ Pottstown PA, I believe, survives partially on donations and partially on advertisement.

Frankly, I think it would be great for public broadcasters to buy some of these troubled AM stations and put their programming there. If NWPR, NPR, some college or whomever was to put their programming on KVI that may not be a bad move. IMNSHO I would just hope that they could keep the old calls.

Solid Gold Oldies are one thing. But I kinda get the feeling John Carlson and Kirby Wilbur's heads would absolutely spin off their necks if THAT were to be the eventual fate of the radio station that launched their careers and the conservative talk radio movement in general.......

"Conservative talk" has its merits, but I wouldn't mind seeing a few libertarians hosts myself. All in all, let me once again say that oldies isn't a bad format, AM or FM. I'm just saying why bother going head-to-head against two FM powerhouses unless you're offering something unique?

 

[SeattleObserver]

As I understand it, the latest national statistics say that pretty much all the radio growth is in the Hispanic segment. Sure there is a weak AM and a rimshot FM here but no real player. I get that we're pretty vanilla but that's where the future growth is and with Fisher already in that business I wonder if they wouldn't think about going down that road.

THIS! ;D

Also, in UT one of the local AM Spanish stations is now simulcasting on an FM: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700166382/Amid-media-slump-Spanish-language-radio-swells.html