KWDB Daytimer AM sold

[SeattleObserver]

From today's Taylor on Radio-info:

Near the Whidbey Island Naval Air Station in Washington State, AM daytimer KWDB (1110) sells for $100,000 to the operator of the local "Action Pages" telephone directory service. Seller is West Beach Broadcasting and the buyer is Impact Directories of Northwest Washington. Why's the station being sold? West Beach principal James Edward Tilton, Jr. died, and the family wishes to sell. The station's licensed to Oak Harbor and does classic hits as "The Voice of Whidbey Island." It operates with 500 watts, daytime only.

 

[Bongwater]

From today's Taylor on Radio-info:

Near the Whidbey Island Naval Air Station in Washington State, AM daytimer KWDB (1110) sells for $100,000 to the operator of the local "Action Pages" telephone directory service. Seller is West Beach Broadcasting and the buyer is Impact Directories of Northwest Washington. Why's the station being sold? West Beach principal James Edward Tilton, Jr. died, and the family wishes to sell. The station's licensed to Oak Harbor and does classic hits as "The Voice of Whidbey Island." It operates with 500 watts, daytime only.

If KWDB was going to be sold to anybody (I heard an earlier buzz it was up for sale for something in the $200K range...something totally out of the question for me on a 500 watt daytimer in this day and age.) then it would not surprise me it was to an enterprising advertiser.

You can keep a radio station floating and paying the bills on infomercials alone. Regardless if NOBODY is listening. That's what corporate tax deductions and KKNW are for.

NOBODY I know listens to KWDB - even in Oak Harbor. Many of whom have never even HEARD of anything called a "KWDB". It's usually mistaken as a dish at a local Asian restaurant or something.

It was too much to spend on a 500 watt daytime AM station for me. And even at $100,000 dollars, I'd probably have my doubts still. The station ALWAYS had bad fidelity and I'd probably have to drag in Clay Frienwald or somebody like him to fix that, with even MORE $$$ to spend. My knowledge of best fidelity on AM is rudimentary and always will be as long as they make crappy AM tuners

KWDB to their credit DOES (currently) play a better mix of classic hits. And Bill O'Reilly (for whatever HIS program is worth....), but not much else: http://www.kwdb.com But as long as summer is in effect, KWDB will survive another year......barely.

Rumor has it KWLE is also up for grabs....

 

[bossbill]

"You can keep a radio station floating and paying the bills on infomercials alone. Regardless if NOBODY is listening. That's what corporate tax deductions and KKNW are for."

I would suggest that if NOBODY is listening, your infomercials will last exactly one time only. They all base their continued airing on results. No listeners = no results.

And to the uninformed, a "corporate tax deduction" works like this:
My corporation spends $100.00. I get to claim an income tax benefit of $30.00. I've still spent $70.00. I know of no businessperson who would knowingly waste $100 to get $30 back at tax time.

I suppose it's possible, but I've never come across a radio station that has NO listeners. Some have many more than others, and some small market stations may have occcasional time periods of zero listeners, but how would you know exactly?

 

[TVradioguru]

You're right on Bill.

The problem here are folks such as Bong that frequently post their opinions as fact feel that just because they, or their small circle of friends don't listen to a particular station, thus must mean that nobody listens. In looking back at earlier posts; KPLZ, KJAQ, KNDD, KKNW, etc., all have no or few listeners and also may be merely "corporate write-offs" too.

I'm amazed how many times these people are proven wrong, yet keep holding firm that they know everything there is to know about a particular property, or what it's like to own a station.

 

[Bongwater]

"You can keep a radio station floating and paying the bills on infomercials alone. Regardless if NOBODY is listening. That's what corporate tax deductions and KKNW are for."

I would suggest that if NOBODY is listening, your infomercials will last exactly one time only. They all base their continued airing on results. No listeners = no results.

And to the uninformed, a "corporate tax deduction" works like this:
My corporation spends $100.00. I get to claim an income tax benefit of $30.00. I've still spent $70.00. I know of no businessperson who would knowingly waste $100 to get $30 back at tax time.

I suppose it's possible, but I've never come across a radio station that has NO listeners. Some have many more than others, and some small market stations may have occcasional time periods of zero listeners, but how would you know exactly?

Well, as far as stations with NO listeners, we have all these CSN translators. And some legitimate stations I would venture to guess actually have at best, not enough listeners to keep in the portfolio in spite of format and other changes over time. This is why they're sold. Radio is certainly not the most profitable business to be in these days.

I'm not dissing small market radio. A lot of stations are doing a hell of a lot, but sometimes it's a struggle uphill in an avalanche just to break even - you should know this.

And as far as stations lasting with infomercials, how does KKNW survive? There must be gazillions of "natural" pill pushers out there and they're ALL looking for any kind of exposure they can get. This is why you hear many of these radio infomercials in the guise of a talk show. I think it's actually easier to push a product like that over AM radio than TV because some people tend to tune around looking for any kind of talk radio with a subject that might interest them whereas on TV, it's almost a cliché how those infomercials work. But then again, some people just love those TV shopping channels for whatever reason.

Another thing is rate cost and market availability. You won't hear a one hour fake Viagra ad on KISW during afternoon drive because there's no way in hell they're going to risk losing 97% of their audience for one hour (many of whom may never return) and even if they did, the price for that hour would be insane. However, on a small AM station, it's more appealing - and far cheaper on the budget than anything else - including late night TV. Repeated exposure is also something these advertisers take into account (did I mention there are probably GAZILLIONS of these pill pushers out there? When you're selling something that's supposedly a cure for something some men are too embarrassed to talk about that's cheaply made and dubious of actual benefits and FDA regulation and working off placebos from "satisfied customers" - or good actors, you'd be amazed how much air time you can afford.)

So perhaps I digress. Maybe some people ARE listening. If only just enough to pay the power bill on Sunday morning if nothing else.

However, the tax structure you pointed out isn't always as read necessarily. There are loopholes galore in the system that can allow for a LOT more depending on circumstances (and there seems to be a different interpretation for almost every circumstance for every business structure at every level - so it's not quite perfectly black and white, but more like a complicated rainbow of gray.)

I'm not an H&R Block guy, but I've heard of some pretty big write-offs some corporate businesses actually got away with that kept/keeps them going. A potentially HUGE tax loss can become a very small one if you have a very smart tax attorney who's good at navigating through the shark, electric eel, pirhana and stinging jellyfish infested waters of federal and state tax laws.

I'm sure this is what props a lot of businesses up that would otherwise collapse.

104.5 is still going down in Covington last I heard. And to be frank, I simply don't know of any other commercially licensed station operator that can keep paying a 25,000 watt power bill every month with no commercials and just an iPod on shuffle. Or any investor with deep enough pockets these days to just keep throwing money at it in the hopes that SOMEBODY is going to notice enough potential in it to buy it.

Oh, and buy it whenever. No big rush or anything, no sweat. We'll just keep this thing going. Just take your time and think this over. We can even wait until this recession is over. Or whenever. It's no big deal to us to throw all this money at a 25,000 watt iPod every month like this with no advertising and not get anything out of it. It's just there. Our gift to you. So enjoy the music and don't worry about how we get by. We just do.

Know any other commercial radio station in a major market that's run this way?

First Broadcasting may not be a player in the radio game in the typical sense of the word. They brought KMCQ up here for a reason and if it was to give us endless oldies with no commercials or means of support every month for all eternity. Well then bless their little hearts.......

But I have a funny feeling they just aren't THAT benevolent. So something's gotta give on another level, don't you think?....

 

[bossbill]

Bongwater, I've learned more from your last post than I learned in my 40 years in broadcasting and in other businesses. Where were you when I needed to make the tough decisions?

 

[Bongwater]

Bongwater, I've learned more from your last post than I learned in my 40 years in broadcasting and in other businesses. Where were you when I needed to make the tough decisions?

Thanks, but nothing I said was anything you didn't know already. I was just illustrating my point another way.

Peace....

 

[jdweaver]

Mr. Wolfenbarger certainly exhibits the wisdom that only a real radio guy would display. I don't know where the rest of you guys get the idea that corporate right offs are profitable or that advertisers don't hold stations to very strict response metrics. They're not idiots...

Interestingly KWDB was at one time owned by Pat O'Day in the mid -90s. Even his magic and his Mega Format didn't work. But he was a largely remote manager, flying in from his waterfront home in the San Juans to inspire the team. Had he been a local guy working the streets every day, it would have been fine.

Even the guys at the Whale in Anacortes, which is one of the worst sounding stations (certainly relative to the demos of the market) seems to have worked the local market enough to keep it alive. And yes, the word is it's up for sale again - $450K (no land or buildings).

 

[gr229]

Bongwater, I've learned more from your last post than I learned in my 40 years in broadcasting and in other businesses. Where were you when I needed to make the tough decisions?

Thanks, but nothing I said was anything you didn't know already. I was just illustrating my point another way.

Peace....

Bong I think you missed the point..Lets see where have I read this?

"Views expressed do not necessarily represent the views of Radio-Info.com or its parent in3 media, inc. In fact many of the views expressed here are just plain wrong"

 

[Bongwater]

Bongwater, I've learned more from your last post than I learned in my 40 years in broadcasting and in other businesses. Where were you when I needed to make the tough decisions?

Thanks, but nothing I said was anything you didn't know already. I was just illustrating my point another way.

Peace....

Bong I think you missed the point..Lets see where have I read this?

"Views expressed do not necessarily represent the views of Radio-Info.com or its parent in3 media, inc. In fact many of the views expressed here are just plain wrong"

Touche.

So how DOES 104.5 carry on with NOTHING to show for it?......

 

[BurntOutRadio]

Obviously, if 104.5 is moved up to a C2 on Cougar Mountain, it is worth a lot more to a potential buyer than where it is presently. The owners had no intention of operating from Covington and want to sell it to the highest bidder when the Construction Permit is issued for Cougar. So, even if it costs them a bunch of money for power to run as it is now, it still is a hell of a lot cheaper than hiring a staff, building out a studio, transmitter site and spending big bucks to advertise the new station when they know they aren't going to be running it. Let the new owner do all that.

 

[gr229]

Hey Bong not disrespecting your point of view at all...

KWDB is 550 watt daytime am....sell
KWDB has very few listeners.2k-5k max om a really good day= sell
KWDB cost probably is/or have risen =sell
KWDB advertisers aren't buying airtime = sell
KWDB aint doing this for a hobby $$$

Add it all up it equals $100k....I'll take it

 

[gr229]

Just to add
KCMQ well I think it's a great investment..They have the freq and they WILL get on cougar mt.
Enjoy it while you can..I bet when they do sell it bet you wish that ipod was pluged back in.
25,000 to 100,000(?) watts on Cougar? KA CHING$$$
This station will probably net in the $40-$60 million when they get on the other mountain.
Not bad for a $700-$1000 a month fuel bill/investment. What other station costs are so low?
One good thing is they are not hooked to Puget Power....uugghh!

 

[BurntOutRadio]

A C2 is limited to a maximum of 50,000 watts erp. The amount of power that they actually put out to get the equivalent of 50,000 watts will be determined by the antenna's height above average terrain and the amount of bays on the antenna.

 

[BurntOutRadio]

Hopefully, the link below will show the new coverage area of KMCQ after their upgrade: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/...h.cgi?exhibit_id=763441&formid=301&q_num=5260

 

[jdweaver]

$40 to $60 million for 104.5? Gimme some of that toke..! If Portland AM/FM is sold to Larry Wilson at $11M...and this station is clean with no operation - It might be worth $5MM to Fisher or even Clear Channel or Christa..but hardly $40M. There is no liquidity out there...so unless you are sitting on a barrel of cash, there is no way to finance this station. And the guys with cash are paying bottom dollar.

 

[gr229]

If the Seattle Schools sold their station I was told that it would be in the $10-$15 million range. I think $11 million was offer.(?)
That is in the non commercial band..$11 million for a non comm? This was posted here sometime ago.

A commercial would sell for 2-3x's as much wouldn't it?

Speaking with the I guess the secretary at First Broadcasting that's what there looking for. We are in a # 13 market and PDX doesn't compare to Sea. in the market since.
Do they? Pureto Rico ranks higher.
First says that they have a potential buyer but she wouldn't say or when. But when I asked how much of course she didn't tell me....but she did lead me to believe they were very happy with the deal.

So this is why I made that comment...My opinion!! then again I should listen to Radio-info's advice::::

Views expressed do not necessarily represent the views of Radio-Info.com or anybody!! In fact many of the views expressed here are just plain wrong.

 

[bossbill]

Prices are down everywhere. First started their project when the big players were overpaying for everything just to get critical mass. The concept was to consolidate stations, trim overhead, and justify the high multiples.

The KXL sale in Portland redefined values in that market. When First is done with their deal, we'll see where the Seattle market is at that time.

The old rule of thumb of valuing established stations at 5-7 times cash flow went out the window during the consolidation rush. Now valuations are falling to earth. The time to sell, as it turns out, would have been several years ago, and the time to buy may be now, or in the near future.

Unless of course this radio thing doesn't pan out...