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KWKH

The 1150 in Rockford was a 500-watt daytimer. Highly directional. Going east, you'd lose it around Belvedere. I remember it as WJRL, a pretty decent little top-40 station.

Back to KWKH.... I tuned in a little before 6am (CST) this morning just before sunrise, and there it was. Signal was fair-good. I'd definitely guess that it was ND. Hard to say for sure whether it would've been 50 or 12.5KW, but it was definitely stronger than adjacent KMOX.
 
I got curious after that last post, so I decided to go to David's site and check out the 1965 Broadcasting Yearbook.....

It showed WISN operating at 1150 5kw fulltime directional....with a CP for 50kw/10kw directional on 1130.  I'm almost certain this is the year they did the flip.

As for the Rockford, IL 1150, indeed it shows as WJRL with 500 watts directional.

There had to have been some engineering "fancy footwork" going on even before what David described with the WISN flip, given 50kw WJJD on 1160 and the 1150s in Milwaukee and Rockford.  I believe WJJD had the same pattern in those days as the current daytime pattern of WYLL...directional to the southeast, but still for the most part, a very respectable signal in the north, northwest, and western suburbs.  I'm not sure about the patterns for WISN and WJRL, but I'd presume the former was very tight to the north, while the latter would have had a very severe null to the east.  I grew up in southeastern Lake county and, while I do remember WISN at night, I don't recall ever hearing either 1150 in the daytime.
 
I've asked this before, but does anyone have any really old FCC databases with directional antenna information? Remember that the old rules just allowed no predicted or measured overlap of the 0.5 mV/m for first adjacents.

WJJD was 20000 watts nondirectional before it became 50000 watts directional. The nulls are toward Milwaukee and Salt Lake City (critical hours and limited before they went fulltime). It seems that for a while, they were still able to use the limited time facilities before switching to night. There was some dealing or appealing of this, and eventually they went to 4.4 kW night facilities at sunset in Des Plaines.

Was WISN DA-1 or DA-2 when it was on 1150? Sounds like DA-2, but if it was a ~cardioid, the greater high angle radiation would be there at night in the direction of the null(s).
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
Was WISN DA-1 or DA-2 when it was on 1150? Sounds like DA-2, but if it was a ~cardioid, the greater high angle radiation would be there at night in the direction of the null(s).
Click to expand...

I was all set to say....or more correctly, guess....DA-2. But I went back to the 1965 yearbook, and it said DA-1. Where I grew up is probably about 55 air miles southwest of downtown Milwaukee. It would figure that the old WISN 1150 stick was closer to me than that. WJJD had a very strong signal where I lived, and it could be that my having no recall of hearing WISN on 1150 during the daytime was simply because of the bleed from WJJD.
 
W9WI told me where the towers for 1150 were and they were of course closer to Milwaukee but still south southwest of central Milwaukee. I think he has pictures of the old site. I'll Look to see if I still have the email.
 
cyberdad said:
Schroedingers Cat said:
Was WISN DA-1 or DA-2 when it was on 1150? Sounds like DA-2, but if it was a ~cardioid, the greater high angle radiation would be there at night in the direction of the null(s).
Click to expand...

I was all set to say....or more correctly, guess....DA-2. But I went back to the 1965 yearbook, and it said DA-1. Where I grew up is probably about 55 air miles southwest of downtown Milwaukee. It would figure that the old WISN 1150 stick was closer to me than that. WJJD had a very strong signal where I lived, and it could be that my having no recall of hearing WISN on 1150 during the daytime was simply because of the bleed from WJJD.
Click to expand...

I was never able to hear WISN in the Chicago area during the day when it was on 1150. Too much bleed over from a very strong WJJD. However, in the Milwaukee area I could hear WJJD right next door on the dial to WISN. Of course this is because of the 50KW WJJD ran.
 
I'm really enjoying this discussion about WISN. Some things I knew and had forgotten, but much of it is brand new to me. Thanks to David Eduardo and everyone else for fascinating information.

Meanwhile, here's an update from East Texas about 110 miles WSW of the KWKH transmitter site. This is from the car a couple of hours ago, although I don't think being able to null KWKH would have made much difference. It appears they're still on reduced power and at the time they were talking LSU football. The signal was quite weak and subject to noticeable fading here in their cancellation zone, but they would have listenable were it not for interference from a Mexican, XEYZ in Aguascalientes. It faded in and out, but when they hit their peaks KWKH was completely gone. There are several conflicting powers shown for XEYZ, ranging from 1kW to 30kW, but I tend to believe the listing on Fred Cantu's site which shows them running 10kW day and 2.5kW night.
 
Before the switch in '65, they ran a top-of-the-hour I.D. saying "Now building Wisconsin's first 50,000-watt station!" With all the expense & trouble involved, you wonder if it was really worth it...
 
jd said:
I'm really enjoying this discussion about WISN. Some things I knew and had forgotten, but much of it is brand new to me. Thanks to David Eduardo and everyone else for fascinating information.

Meanwhile, here's an update from East Texas about 110 miles WSW of the KWKH transmitter site. This is from the car a couple of hours ago, although I don't think being able to null KWKH would have made much difference. It appears they're still on reduced power and at the time they were talking LSU football. The signal was quite weak and subject to noticeable fading here in their cancellation zone, but they would have listenable were it not for interference from a Mexican, XEYZ in Aguascalientes. It faded in and out, but when they hit their peaks KWKH was completely gone. There are several conflicting powers shown for XEYZ, ranging from 1kW to 30kW, but I tend to believe the listing on Fred Cantu's site which shows them running 10kW day and 2.5kW night.
Click to expand...

Interesting indeed. Yesterday afternoon, while raking some leaves, I had it on 1130. Initially, WISN dominated, then I could hear the Twin Cities station coming in well around 4:15. By 4:30 pm (before dark), KWKH was dominating the channel and that continued for the rest of the evening from what I can tell. Very strong signal up here. This was around the same time as WISN fell off the table. But, with such a strong signal, I can't see how KWKH would not interfere with WISN in the Milwaukee market as well - being audible in the background at least.

And, how is it that KWKH supposedly is directional toward the southwest at night - yet blows into the Great Lakes region with so much power?
 
Update....

I decided to check out 1130 this morning at 5:30 (CST) before sunrise, and much to my astonishment, CKWX was comfortably on top! I certainly didn't expect THAT! First time I've ever heard them here, and this was on the SRF-37 Walkman. Unmistakable....news story about Canada politics followed by "1130 News time is 3:35" and then a report about snow in interior BC. Then they faded, and KWKH was in the foreground, but not particularly strong. No trace of WISN.

A little over an hour later, after daybreak but before WISN powered up, in my car on the way to my local health club, I checked out 1130 again. CKWX was on top once more....although weaker than before. Another hour after that, I got back in the car with 1130 still tuned. WISN was on day power/pattern, but with WDFN clearly in the background.


Ken Tucky said:
Before the switch in '65, they ran a top of-the-hour I.D. saying "Now building Wisconsin's first 50,000-watt station!" With all the expense & trouble involved, you wonder if it was really worth it...
Click to expand...

I think it definitely was worth it. The daytime signal is a huge upgrade from what they had before. And on top of having a bigger overall footprint, they also got out of being stomped on by WJJD's splatter. They were certainly even more hemmed-in on 1150 than they are now on 1130. As for the nighttime signal, it's at least as good....and probably better...than what they had previously. Moving the transmitter farther south than they could have gotten away with on 1150 probably actually helped them in the southern reaches of most of the Milwaukee metro.

Its also worth noting that the stations WISN is protecting at night, for the most part aren't/weren't throwing much juicep towards Milwaukee in the first place. The result was that the channel was relatively clear at night....and in fact, still is relatively "slop free".

I'm not sure what WISN's ratings were like on 1150, but my guess is that they probably took a back seat to WTMJ, WOKY, and perhaps also WRIT and WEMP. When they first showed up on 1130, they were beautiful music....not unlike WAIT in Chicago. I'm also not sure how well they did with that, but I do remember from my summer job in college as vacation relief on delivery routes for Frito-Lay that I started to hear them on a lot of stores' sound systems around Lake and Northern Cook counties. Later, in the mid-70s, they were sort of an adult contemporary-oldies hybrid as "Radio 11". The station sounded really good then and seemed to be doing quite well. I lived in Lake Geneva briefly during that time and my wife & I had them on all the time. At least during the day. The nighttime signal was pretty much non-existent (even though I think that's when they may have been tinkering with 25kw).
 
I'm trying to remember when it was at Crystal Lake/Benzie County that I heard 50000 watt WISN first.

One of the best references for year (useful on old unlabelled DX tapes too) is Joel Whitburn's Top Pop Singles book. I remember hearing current songs on WDBC 680 Escanaba, and WDOR 910 Sturgeon Bay, and the best I can figure, it was 1967. Songs were "Jill" by Gary Lewis on WDBC and "Silence Is Golden" by the The Tremeloes on WDOR.

I got WRTH the next year and I think that is when I found out that WISN was on 1130, 50/10 U4. I was surprised it was so close to the then WCAR 1130, and even more surprised when I found out WCAR's two tower day pattern was close to 50 kW in the direction of Milwaukee.

I have a tape somewhere of KWKH pattern change where they said goodbye to a town in a null. "50000 watt KWKH now changes its broadcast pattern".
 
Speaking of saying goodbye to a town during a pattern change, I was in LA in 1967 and heard DJ Bob Dayton say goodbye to San Bernardino when KRLA changed to their night pattern.
 
I lived in Riverside (near San Bernardino) in the early to mid-1960s and I can verify that when KRLA went to the night pattern, they just dropped out of sight! Back then their night power was 10KW and the newer version of 1110 uses 20KW at night, so it might not be as bad these days in the "Inland Empire".
 
Bongwater said:
WISN has got to have the craziest nighttime pattern EVER.

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WISN&service=AM&status=L&hours=N

I notice they null in the direction of CKWX Vancouver (a monster signal, even in Seattle!) I remember hearing CKWX as far east as Fargo (with a bit of KWKH underneath.) But CKWX dominated. Wonder if they can pick up CKWX in Madison, WI?
Click to expand...

I don't think the pattern turns out any stranger looking, but WXYT 1270 has the oddest tower arrangement of any array in the country, and probably the world.
 
You're probably right about the tower arrangement for WXYT. No argument here. As for the patterns, they're pretty bizarre, too.

Scroll down each page, first to see the daytime tower orientation and pattern, followed by nighttime:
www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=AM&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=657235&sHours=D
www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=AM&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=657235&sHours=N

For comparison, the tower orientation and pattern for WISN nighttime is here: www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=AM&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=619&sHours=N
 
OK, as an addendum to Cyberdad's observations on 1130 the other night, I have to thank him for the tip about CKWX! At about 9:30 pm (CT) last night, I did a little dxing which started on 1130. As usual, KWKH was again blowing in like a ton of bricks - an amazing achievement for a signal that's supposedly nulled in our direction. However, in nulling it out (which I literally could not do sometimes because of it's signal strength), I actually heard CKWX for a minute or two. It was the forecast for Vancouver, talking about high elevation snow and rain changing to snow for today. Temperatures in centigrade. Then it was gone and only WBBR bubbled up now and then. KWKH ruled the roost with an amazing local-grade signal that transitioned from LSU basketball to classic country music.

Last night was a great night for propagation, I pulled in KNX with little trouble. It wasn't strong, but clear and stable enough to hear easily. KSL was loud and clear in the null of local Bible beater WJJD. 960 from Calgary and KOKC from OKC also checked in with clearer than usual signals. And, I even had a pretty clear signal from Radio Encyclopedia from Cuba on 530. Reception of signals from Vancouver to Cuba? Not a bad night at all......
 
BRNout said:
OK, as an addendum to Cyberdad's observations on 1130 the other night, I have to thank him for the tip about CKWX! At about 9:30 pm (CT) last night, I did a little dxing which started on 1130. As usual, KWKH was again blowing in like a ton of bricks - an amazing achievement for a signal that's supposedly nulled in our direction. However, in nulling it out (which I literally could not do sometimes because of it's signal strength), I actually heard CKWX for a minute or two. It was the forecast for Vancouver, talking about high elevation snow and rain changing to snow for today. Temperatures in centigrade. Then it was gone and only WBBR bubbled up now and then. KWKH ruled the roost with an amazing local-grade signal that transitioned from LSU basketball to classic country music.

Last night was a great night for propagation, I pulled in KNX with little trouble. It wasn't strong, but clear and stable enough to hear easily. KSL was loud and clear in the null of local Bible beater WJJD. 960 from Calgary and KOKC from OKC also checked in with clearer than usual signals. And, I even had a pretty clear signal from Radio Encyclopedia from Cuba on 530. Reception of signals from Vancouver to Cuba? Not a bad night at all......
Click to expand...

I'll have to give it a try tonight. CKWX is one I'd like to catch here in the Chicago area.
 
Frankly, I never thought CKWX was do-able around here. Certainly not on a walkman. Then there it was yesterday (Thursday) both before and after sunrise. That said, I knew from my 1-2 times a year business trips to Vancouver and the Pacific Northwest that they have a dynamite signal. Basically rock solid from Vancouver all the way to Sea-Tac airport, south of Seattle.

As a teenager....before WISN flipped....I'd sometimes hang out at night on 1130 trying to catch WDGY (usually without success). In those days there really wasn't much of anything on the channel, although occasionally KWKH, WCAR, or WNEW would appear briefly.
 
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