• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

KXCL 92.1 CP Granted

TimmyWA

TimmyWA

Flash should be helped out by this CP?

ERP: 6000 Watts
HAAT: 328 Ft
HASL: 3,162 Ft

CP Granted Sept 26th 2005

Radio-Locator map shows similar tower location but further signal reach. Is it on now? If not, when?
Feedback?

-Timmy<P ID="signature">______________
Perfection is overrated...
www.marinifamily.org</P>
 
> Flash should be helped out by this CP?
>
> ERP: 6000 Watts
> HAAT: 328 Ft
> HASL: 3,162 Ft
>
> CP Granted Sept 26th 2005
>
> Radio-Locator map shows similar tower location but further
> signal reach. Is it on now? If not, when?
> Feedback?
>
> -Timmy
>
Chris Kidd replies:

328 or 100 meters (which is the same) is the highest height above average terrian that is grantable for a class A FM before reducing their power. Once you are above 328 average feet the power would go down. A good example is the Sutter Buttes FMs. They are both around 140 watts ERP because of their height above average.

In other words First Broadcasting is squeezing the maximun out of this facility. The height above sea level by itself does not reduce the power.

Since this CP was just issued it will take some time for First to build. However we know that they work very fast and this could be on the air within a couple of months.

Now are there any buyers out there for this facility with the new site and the asking price still at 20 million?

CK
 
> > Flash should be helped out by this CP?
> >
> > ERP: 6000 Watts
> > HAAT: 328 Ft
> > HASL: 3,162 Ft
> >
> > CP Granted Sept 26th 2005
> >
> > Radio-Locator map shows similar tower location but further
>
> > signal reach. Is it on now? If not, when?
> > Feedback?
> >
> > -Timmy
> >
> Chris Kidd replies:
>
> 328 or 100 meters (which is the same) is the highest height
> above average terrian that is grantable for a class A FM
> before reducing their power. Once you are above 328 average
> feet the power would go down. A good example is the Sutter
> Buttes FMs. They are both around 140 watts ERP because of
> their height above average.
>
> In other words First Broadcasting is squeezing the maximun
> out of this facility. The height above sea level by itself
> does not reduce the power.
>
> Since this CP was just issued it will take some time for
> First to build. However we know that they work very fast and
> this could be on the air within a couple of months.
>
> Now are there any buyers out there for this facility with
> the new site and the asking price still at 20 million?
>
> CK
>
When this is built and on the air it will be sold to Amador Bustos, Univision, or Salem and in a "FLASH!" And we all know it too!
 
> > > Flash should be helped out by this CP?
> > >
> > > ERP: 6000 Watts
> > > HAAT: 328 Ft
> > > HASL: 3,162 Ft
> > >
> > > CP Granted Sept 26th 2005
> > >
> > > Radio-Locator map shows similar tower location but
> further
> >
> > > signal reach. Is it on now? If not, when?
> > > Feedback?
> > >
> > > -Timmy
> > >
> > Chris Kidd replies:
> >
> > 328 or 100 meters (which is the same) is the highest
> height
> > above average terrian that is grantable for a class A FM
> > before reducing their power. Once you are above 328
> average
> > feet the power would go down. A good example is the Sutter
>
> > Buttes FMs. They are both around 140 watts ERP because
> of
> > their height above average.
> >
> > In other words First Broadcasting is squeezing the maximun
>
> > out of this facility. The height above sea level by
> itself
> > does not reduce the power.
> >
> > Since this CP was just issued it will take some time for
> > First to build. However we know that they work very fast
> and
> > this could be on the air within a couple of months.
> >
> > Now are there any buyers out there for this facility with
> > the new site and the asking price still at 20 million?
> >
> > CK
> >
> When this is built and on the air it will be sold to Amador
> Bustos, Univision, or Salem and in a "FLASH!" And we all
> know it too!
>

It's a shame, it's been a good station along with KCCL.
 
> > It's a shame, it's been a good station along with KCCL.>
>
> Yeah, the billing is just tremendous.
>

Would do you mean billing is tremendous. Is that scarcastic? I don't care about their billing, or how their log looks, I'm not in the business no longer to care about that. I just care about how they sound. Unfortunately when it comes to the average person's taste, the world is in a toilet today. When I get on this board, I base it on the stations sound, not who operates it, what it targets, and unfotunately from the days you once could program your station from a Billboard magazine.....it's now a game of extreme chess. It's harder then a quarterback's play book to program. That's why it's been boooring.
 
> > > That's why it's been boooring.


That's why ultimately, you can only rely on your iPod or satellite. You may not care about billing but when the powers that be make a change because there's no money coming in, don't come complaining that the station sounds terrible. The station has never been financially viable and that may be less a matter of product and more a matter of management. Like you don't already know this: owners care way more about one than the other. That's why ultimately, you can only rely on your iPod or satellite.
 
> When this is built and on the air it will be sold to Amador
> Bustos, Univision, or Salem and in a "FLASH!" And we all
> know it too!

allisonmarie,

You could be right... I've always wondered why that property doesn't generate interest from Clear Channel.

In response to the CP for KXCL. Huge waste of money if you ask me. Most listeners will NOT be able to tell the difference.

Sad, very sad.

<P ID="signature">______________
If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything...</P>
 
> > > > That's why it's been boooring.
>
>
> That's why ultimately, you can only rely on your iPod or
> satellite. You may not care about billing but when the
> powers that be make a change because there's no money coming
> in, don't come complaining that the station sounds terrible.
> The station has never been financially viable and that may
> be less a matter of product and more a matter of management.
> Like you don't already know this: owners care way more
> about one than the other. That's why ultimately, you can
> only rely on your iPod or satellite.
>


And I will rely on it, but lately Flash and KCCL has been doing a surprising job in getting out the variety hits that have been missing.
I was recently in the bay area and monitored KFRC and the rest while driving. That market is sad. It doesn't matter what station you listen to ,they seemed
to be programmed for the offices. Even at night.
KCCL so far has done a real attempt to deliver radio the way it sounded back in the 70's. (Except for the AOR tracks) Some of those go back to back that does take the balance out of the sound it was attempting to do in the first place.
Sometimes for a moment you think you have KSEG on there until they shift into a Captain & Tenille. They need to polish that alittle. And the rotation category of their wheel seems to be alittle loose.
But it has me sharing time with XM lately. and if they changed because the New World Order of music wants them to...I'll stick with XM and the Internet.
 
The CP, ERP, HAAT, and HASL isn't going to put back the peices of the angry and disgrunteled staff and radio personalities at the Flash 92.1. I've heard some pretty awful stories about what First broadcasting has done to the talent...

Mikey

> Flash should be helped out by this CP?
>
> ERP: 6000 Watts
> HAAT: 328 Ft
> HASL: 3,162 Ft
>
> CP Granted Sept 26th 2005
>
> Radio-Locator map shows similar tower location but further
> signal reach. Is it on now? If not, when?
> Feedback?
>
> -Timmy
>
 
> > When this is built and on the air it will be sold to
> Amador
> > Bustos, Univision, or Salem and in a "FLASH!" And we all
> > know it too!
>
> allisonmarie,
>
> You could be right... I've always wondered why that property
> doesn't generate interest from Clear Channel.
>
Chris Kidd replies:

This station would be a distraction for clear Channel Sacramento.

They have two full class B stations (92.5 & 101.1) plus the two AMs.
They are not at their legal limt just thier practial limt with 4 sucessful in-town big signal stations. An out of town class A signal would mostly divert ad dollars and never return the 20 million investment.

How about some other opinions on this?

More below


> In response to the CP for KXCL. Huge waste of money if you
> ask me. Most listeners will NOT be able to tell the
> difference.
>
CK: First Broadcasting is doing this signal improvement to attract a buyer for the station. The additional avaailable listerners are only a bonus for the short time remaining that they will own 92.1

Now do you think they will lower the price from 20 million?

CK

> Sad, very sad.
>
 
> And I will rely on it, but lately Flash and KCCL has been
> doing a surprising job in getting out the variety hits that
> have been missing.
> I was recently in the bay area and monitored KFRC and the
> rest while driving. That market is sad. It doesn't matter
> what station you listen to ,they seemed
> to be programmed for the offices. Even at night.
> KCCL so far has done a real attempt to deliver radio the way
> it sounded back in the 70's. (Except for the AOR tracks)
> Some of those go back to back that does take the balance out
> of the sound it was attempting to do in the first place.
> Sometimes for a moment you think you have KSEG on there
> until they shift into a Captain & Tenille. They need to
> polish that alittle. And the rotation category of their
> wheel seems to be alittle loose.
> But it has me sharing time with XM lately. and if they
> changed because the New World Order of music wants them
> to...I'll stick with XM and the Internet.
>

Great, you like it, but don't marry it; it won't be around for long because it's simply not profitable.

It's mildly amusing to me when I hear older contributors on here say it sounds like radio sounded in the 70s, or "it reminds me of the old KROY." I believe those were the call letters. No offense, but those days are dead, and the listeners hellbent on that nostalgia, while entitled to their tastes, are just not the target demo. The business of radio has passed you by. Whether that's good or bad, corporate radio isn't about to change it, and certainly, it's more corporate in major markets like SF than in mediums like Sac (hence even worse choices for someone like you).

Even if I liked the station (which is hardly the point), I wouldn't entrust my loyalty to it a) because of the business reality, b) because it's a poorly run operation, c) because of their progamming track record. That's sad because there are some very decent human beings working there.

It doesn't help that the company hasn't the "cluster clout" to compete in this market, so they couldn't even amortize the cost of running such a stick if they had five others in-house. Even then, if Clear Channel were to buy the signal (and that would be smart if Entravision sells their radio division in the next year as is widely believed), they'd do what they've now successfully done to ruin a once top news/talk station: cheapen it. And you know exactly what I mean. As an aside, do you know that Clear Channel has a voice-tracked station in Portland that runs a liner saying "Support Local Radio"? Is that ballsy, or what?

All I'm saying is, enjoy the station while you can; but the only thing more certain than the fact it will go away is the fact the complaints to follow, perhaps on this board, will do nothing to bring it back.
 
> CK: First Broadcasting is doing this signal improvement to
> attract a buyer for the station. The additional avaailable
> listerners are only a bonus for the short time remaining
> that they will own 92.1
>
> Now do you think they will lower the price from 20 million?
>
> CK

Chris,

I agree with you, First is doing this “signal upgrade” to look better on paper and see if they can attract another buyer. The big problem is, this is NO signal upgrade at all.

The 50 dBu signal contour for KXCL as theorized by the granted CP, hardly shows city grade signal getting any closer to Downtown Sacramento or any of the surrounding suburbs.

I think First is throwing money into a bottomless hole. I just don’t see any company spending more money for this station with the proposed "signal upgrade".

When KXCL was at 103.9, we were looking at something entirely different. That signal was downgraded to a Class A, bringing that city grade coverage in, BUT closer to the Sacramento Metro.

This “signal upgrade” of 92.1 is not going to bring this kind of improvement. Mark my words. I also don’t think (as mentioned above) that it will encourage any buyer that has a brain purchase it (or spend 20 mil) to buy it on that improvement alone.

Anybody else think differently? Would about the folks at First. what do you guys/gals think? <P ID="signature">______________
If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything...</P>
 
All I can really see with this upgrade improving is the fact they are gaining 139 meters in elevation above sea level, and a little over 3db gain in signal (power is doubled) The additional height/power combo may help fill in "holes"
where the signal may be shadowed from. We'll see if it's really an improvement or not..

By the way, is it my imagination, or is Flash running in mono? Kinda sounded that way to me a couple of days ago...

fmnostatic...




> > CK: First Broadcasting is doing this signal improvement to
>
> > attract a buyer for the station. The additional avaailable
>
> > listerners are only a bonus for the short time remaining
> > that they will own 92.1
> >
> > Now do you think they will lower the price from 20
> million?
> >
> > CK
>
> Chris,
>
> I agree with you, First is doing this “signal upgrade” to
> look better on paper and see if they can attract another
> buyer. The big problem is, this is NO signal upgrade at
> all.
>
> The 50 dBu signal contour for KXCL as theorized by the
> granted CP, hardly shows city grade signal getting any
> closer to Downtown Sacramento or any of the surrounding
> suburbs.
>
> I think First is throwing money into a bottomless hole. I
> just don’t see any company spending more money for this
> station with the proposed "signal upgrade".
>
> When KXCL was at 103.9, we were looking at something
> entirely different. That signal was downgraded to a Class
> A, bringing that city grade coverage in, BUT closer to the
> Sacramento Metro.
>
> This “signal upgrade” of 92.1 is not going to bring this
> kind of improvement. Mark my words. I also don’t think (as
> mentioned above) that it will encourage any buyer that has a
> brain purchase it (or spend 20 mil) to buy it on that
> improvement alone.
>
> Anybody else think differently? Would about the folks at
> First. what do you guys/gals think?
>
 
> > And I will rely on it, but lately Flash and KCCL has been
> > doing a surprising job in getting out the variety hits
> that
> > have been missing.
> > I was recently in the bay area and monitored KFRC and the
> > rest while driving. That market is sad. It doesn't matter
>
> > what station you listen to ,they seemed
> > to be programmed for the offices. Even at night.
> > KCCL so far has done a real attempt to deliver radio the
> way
> > it sounded back in the 70's. (Except for the AOR tracks)
> > Some of those go back to back that does take the balance
> out
> > of the sound it was attempting to do in the first place.
> > Sometimes for a moment you think you have KSEG on there
> > until they shift into a Captain & Tenille. They need to
> > polish that alittle. And the rotation category of their
> > wheel seems to be alittle loose.
> > But it has me sharing time with XM lately. and if they
> > changed because the New World Order of music wants them
> > to...I'll stick with XM and the Internet.
> >
>
> Great, you like it, but don't marry it; it won't be around
> for long because it's simply not profitable.
>

I'm not married to anybody or anything. But KCCL just went on and your calling it dead before it started. if the ratings are good, but still no advertisers, why even broadcast. It's like this country....only cares about special interests, not the mainstream needs. Why listen why Vote?

> It's mildly amusing to me when I hear older contributors on
> here say it sounds like radio sounded in the 70s, or "it
> reminds me of the old KROY." I believe those were the call
> letters. No offense, but those days are dead, and the
> listeners hellbent on that nostalgia, while entitled to
> their tastes, are just not the target demo. The business of
> radio has passed you by. Whether that's good or bad,
> corporate radio isn't about to change it, and certainly,
> it's more corporate in major markets like SF than in mediums
> like Sac (hence even worse choices for someone like you).
>
Younger people don't know what they missed on the air, and that's the reason alot of younger people aren't listening like when we did. No doubt about, it was more talented and entertaining then today. The peak of that era ended about the mid 80's. But the bay area is in sad shape. Especially KFRC. Not that it's bad, nothing new or creative about it. Just another so-so.

> Even if I liked the station (which is hardly the point), I
> wouldn't entrust my loyalty to it a) because of the business
> reality, b) because it's a poorly run operation, c) because
> of their progamming track record. That's sad because there
> are some very decent human beings working there.
> What station is a poorly run operation? What are you referring too.

> It doesn't help that the company hasn't the "cluster clout"
> to compete in this market, so they couldn't even amortize
> the cost of running such a stick if they had five others
> in-house. Even then, if Clear Channel were to buy the
> signal (and that would be smart if Entravision sells their
> radio division in the next year as is widely believed),
> they'd do what they've now successfully done to ruin a once
> top news/talk station: cheapen it. And you know exactly
> what I mean. As an aside, do you know that Clear Channel
> has a voice-tracked station in Portland that runs a liner
> saying "Support Local Radio"? Is that ballsy, or what?
>
Yes, i like to get an air-check on that.

> All I'm saying is, enjoy the station while you can; but the
> only thing more certain than the fact it will go away is the
> fact the complaints to follow, perhaps on this board, will
> do nothing to bring it back.
>
Of course not. But you seem so certain that Flash and KCCL will have no success. I can understand FLash because of it's signal. And all the jocks I noticed work 6 hour shifts, plus weekends. I worked in small towns were I worked alot shorter. Would you know if they have to mow the lawn and take out the garbage too? I haven't heard any hog reports or hospital admmittances on the air yet.
 
> > > KCCL just went on and your calling it dead before it started. if the ratings are good, but still no advertisers, why even broadcast. It's like this country....only cares about special interests, not the mainstream needs. Why listen why Vote?

Business has always only cared about the interests that serve its purpose. The advertising community generally turns a deaf ear on the plus 50 crowd, thinking they don't spend money like the 30-year-old female. That seems crazy to me since the ones with the most discretionary income are aging boomers. Go figure.

As to "dead before it started," well, they've done that themselves more than once so they'll have to disprove their track record first. And there's still the spectre of a sale. Sometime next year, it's widely believed that Entravision will unload its radio properties. Clear Channel is the only one in a position to take true advantage of that. The way they're cutting costs on their bread & butter operation (KFBK), it's not likely thy'll go overboard with a lot of bells and whistles for KCCL; if they can run it for less (and they can), they will. You won't like the changes. Or they might take it Spanish. They might also buy the KXCL stick and, with the right monkeying around, will strengthen the signal and then explore options. A lot of people still wonder why there isn't a second country station in town. That's not a prediction, by the way.

> Younger people don't know what they missed on the air...

And they're not likely to, not that they care anyway. Look, I'm with you; I hope the station gets ratings and people love it and they prosper. Prognosis: unlikely.
 
Of course First is upgrading the signal to sell the station. They did the same thing 103.9. And oh yeah forgot to tell the staff. In fact the day befor ethe sell they went into teh station and told everyone the station was safe from being sold. They will sell 92.1 as soon as someone is stupid enough to buy the thing. I propse a boycot of that miserable company. My sources say

Edited by moderator at the request of a party involved in a legal matter that was discussed by the poster. Please note that if said information is reposted, the thread will be closed and the poster banned.

Great company! I will still listen to Kieth, Steve, and Stacey, but I will not fill out a ratings diary with Flash on it!



> All I can really see with this upgrade improving is the fact
> they are gaining 139 meters in elevation above sea level,
> and a little over 3db gain in signal (power is doubled) The
> additional height/power combo may help fill in "holes"
> where the signal may be shadowed from. We'll see if it's
> really an improvement or not..
>
> By the way, is it my imagination, or is Flash running in
> mono? Kinda sounded that way to me a couple of days ago...
>
> fmnostatic...
>
>
>
>
> > > CK: First Broadcasting is doing this signal improvement
> to
> >
> > > attract a buyer for the station. The additional
> avaailable
> >
> > > listerners are only a bonus for the short time remaining
>
> > > that they will own 92.1
> > >
> > > Now do you think they will lower the price from 20
> > million?
> > >
> > > CK
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > I agree with you, First is doing this “signal upgrade” to
> > look better on paper and see if they can attract another
> > buyer. The big problem is, this is NO signal upgrade at
> > all.
> >
> > The 50 dBu signal contour for KXCL as theorized by the
> > granted CP, hardly shows city grade signal getting any
> > closer to Downtown Sacramento or any of the surrounding
> > suburbs.
> >
> > I think First is throwing money into a bottomless hole. I
> > just don’t see any company spending more money for this
> > station with the proposed "signal upgrade".
> >
> > When KXCL was at 103.9, we were looking at something
> > entirely different. That signal was downgraded to a Class
>
> > A, bringing that city grade coverage in, BUT closer to the
>
> > Sacramento Metro.
> >
> > This “signal upgrade” of 92.1 is not going to bring this
> > kind of improvement. Mark my words. I also don’t think
> (as
> > mentioned above) that it will encourage any buyer that has
> a
> > brain purchase it (or spend 20 mil) to buy it on that
> > improvement alone.
> >
> > Anybody else think differently? Would about the folks at
> > First. what do you guys/gals think?
> >
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by KMRichards on 10/07/05 12:13 AM.</FONT></P>
 
> By the way, is it my imagination, or is Flash running in
> mono? Kinda sounded that way to me a couple of days ago...
>
> fmnostatic...

Pilot is on, knowbody's home.

I think you're right, sounds like mono to me.<P ID="signature">______________
If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything...</P>
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom