KXXO takes on big, BAD Hubbard Radio!

[Grounded Grid]

The FCC doesn't make their decisions by popular vote. It doesn't matter how many people sign the petition. If the rules say the translator can be licensed, it will. This isn't like a reality TV show where people can vote someone on or off the island.

That's true. The rules regarding interference by secondary services (LP, TX, etc) still contain the words "ANY interference". This allows the primary station some very wide leeway, when defining the perceived harm a secondary might be doing to his station.

I've seen successful challenges to translators, based on as few as 2 or 3 complaints. A couple resulted in the translators being shut down, while others resulted in negotiated changes that eventually satisfied the primary operator.

If they're committed, I wouldn't discount KXXO's ability to pull this off just yet. The translator might get built, based on contours, but the real test will come when they turn it on.

 

[davideduardo]

That's true. The rules regarding interference by secondary services (LP, TX, etc) still contain the words "ANY interference". This allows the primary station some very wide leeway, when defining the perceived harm a secondary might be doing to his station.

I've seen successful challenges to translators, based on as few as 2 or 3 complaints. A couple resulted in the translators being shut down, while others resulted in negotiated changes that eventually satisfied the primary operator.

If they're committed, I wouldn't discount KXXO's ability to pull this off just yet. The translator might get built, based on contours, but the real test will come when they turn it on.

The FCC is, right now, working on new rule-making to avoid those small-number-of-listener complaints whereby the verification process would be more rigid and the number of complaints would have to be more significant.

The obvious motivation is to prevent from prospering those cases like the Hazard, KY, FM that got a couple of listeners in its 45 dbu signal area to write letters, shutting down a translator in Lexington, KY... over 100 miles away!

 

[bossbill]

I'm torn on this one. Some time ago, KXXO made serious attempts to block the move of my 97.7 from Raymond to Oakville. Their attorneys called Oakville a wide spot, a berg, a location, everything but a community of license, even though Oakville had a school system, City Hall, police force, a Mayor. In the end, they lost, and 97.7 was able to move. Now the area has a few more FMs to contend with, and a couple more coming up.
On the other hand, the current regulations don't confine interference by FM translators to any signal contour. Unless and until the regs are changed, KXXO is allowed to solicit complaints from their regular listeners, no matter where they are located. And I have a first adjacent that messes up my KSWW signal from Kamilche through the Shelton area.

Go David!

 

[Kelly A]

The FCC is, right now, working on new rule-making to avoid those small-number-of-listener complaints whereby the verification process would be more rigid and the number of complaints would have to be more significant.

That would actually be a good thing. I've been involved with having to investigate complaints between stations and translators taken seriously by the Commission. In all but one instance, the complaint was either made by a friend or relative of someone who worked at the station with no way of showing how their listening was being impacted, or in a couple cases, were problems with their receiver or antenna.
The one legitimate example of working on the translator side of a complaint; I installed a bandpass filter to the output of a translator, followed with a documented spectrum sweep, satisfying the FCC and complainant.

If the Commission is going to open the translator flood gates with AM stations, then they'd better be prepared for a flood of nonsense interference complaints.

 

[EricStein]

The FCC is, right now, working on new rule-making to avoid those small-number-of-listener complaints whereby the verification process would be more rigid and the number of complaints would have to be more significant.

The obvious motivation is to prevent from prospering those cases like the Hazard, KY, FM that got a couple of listeners in its 45 dbu signal area to write letters, shutting down a translator in Lexington, KY... over 100 miles away!

What about the interference solicitations on one station’s website made by one translator owner against another? KIKO (AM) on the outskirts of the Phoenix Metro is trying to shut down another translator on 102.9 by trying to grab interference complaints through their website, even though the format on the station is brand new and the other translator is rebroadcasting an established station.

 

[Kelly A]

What about the interference solicitations on one station’s website made by one translator owner against another?

The way it is today, technically translators are not a protected class, let alone by another translator. Same goes with LPFM's.
Supporters of one translator or another can whine all they want. As long as the translators were constructed within the original authorization(s), they don't have much of a leg to stand on.

 

[Grounded Grid]

The way it is today, technically translators are not a protected class, let alone by another translator. Same goes with LPFM's.
Supporters of one translator or another can whine all they want. As long as the translators were constructed within the original authorization(s), they don't have much of a leg to stand on.

... and the FCC couldn't care less about format, first or not, so there's no argument there, either.

A company I worked once "motivated" another broadcaster to change their antenna on a co-channel translator, once it became clear the new signal was well within our 60. They claimed they were merely "filling the holes" in our signal, even though they were poking through it within a few blocks of our antenna.

 

[bobdavcav]

I'm torn on this one. Some time ago, KXXO made serious attempts to block the move of my 97.7 from Raymond to Oakville. Their attorneys called Oakville a wide spot, a berg, a location, everything but a community of license, even though Oakville had a school system, City Hall, police force, a Mayor. In the end, they lost, and 97.7 was able to move. Now the area has a few more FMs to contend with, and a couple more coming up.
On the other hand, the current regulations don't confine interference by FM translators to any signal contour. Unless and until the regs are changed, KXXO is allowed to solicit complaints from their regular listeners, no matter where they are located. And I have a first adjacent that messes up my KSWW signal from Kamilche through the Shelton area.

Go David!

I am wondering if you've gotten complaints from KBKS listeners in Pacific County because of your 106.1? I used to be able to get KBKS at my grandpa's, but even if I had the time to file a complaint, I'm only one person who doesn't live in that area, and only down there a handful of times a year. When does KJET move to the new site? Once that happens and the 93.1 translator is shut down, I'd suggest either moving it to the Raymond site or moving the 106.1 translator to 93.1 to resolve that issue.

 

[Bongwater]

I think what Bongwater says holds some merit. I have heard of people commuting to Everett from South King County (probably a 35 mile commute), and even have heard of some who commute to Seattle from places like Graham to the south, Stanwood to the north, or even as far south as Olympia.

They may be rare, but long commutes are more common than they were even in the 1990's when people complained about Seattle traffic.

I would guess they listen to the big signals, or maybe switch from a station to another if there are reception issues. But that's just a guess.

That's my point. And if the only way to get a steady signal is by streaming it, they will sooner do that than change stations to something they're not interested in and use their car's WiFi capability for what they're paying $28,000 and their unlimited monthly smartphone data plan for.

This is not 1998. The idea of a captive local radio dial has really all but vanished. Especially along the major highway corridors in urban areas and suburbs where the mobile data is at. Which makes the very idea of all these translators everywhere in those areas themselves seem strange in my eyes.

And seriously, from a resource and practical viewpoint, wouldn't AM allergic KKNW listeners be better served by a reliable mobile stream that goes everywhere they already have than an iffy future translator that doesn't even cover all of Bellevue decently? Especially for the internet radio spook type format already on KKNW?

 

[bossbill]

Actually, you're the only one. And the various Arbitron County Reports have not shown any listeners in Pacific County anyway.

 

[Kelly A]

Even if someone like this is rare, these people do exist.

Okay, then we'll count you as listener #1. Larry, you #2?

 

[seattlesarchiebunker]

As Grounded Grid said, if they are persistent, they can get the translator built. It is likely that it will be quickly moved or neutered to flea-power status.

I’m thinking of a very recent case in Tampa where a rimshot signal that primarily served a different market had a metro area translator pop up on their frequency. They fought for a bit and eventually forced the translator to power down from 250w to 100 and moved location to a much less desirable spot with lower height and further from the population center (and away from the rimshot’s station)

And let’s not forget that right here, KMCQ kicked off the longtime downtown translator on 103.3...I have always suspected after exploring options to purchase/lease the translator and Entercom balking. That was a much less severe case of interference than the proposed KKNW to KXXO, and my guess is just like most things, money talks and BS walks in this situation as well.

Don’t be surprised if this one is eventually moved as far north and east as possible...maybe the good folks in Gold Bar will finally get to hear KKNW in glorious FM!

 

[bobdavcav]

So 103.3 is officially off? I hadn't heard anything since December, when I didn't hear that translator during a brief KMCQ outage, but haven't heard anything official.

 

[seattlesarchiebunker]

According to the FCC, K277AE has moved from its longtime home at the Metropolitan Tower close to I5/Olive to the building behind the Rainier Club near Pioneer Square. Probably the most directional signal I’ve seen on a FM towards the south...I don’t know how they do it but it covers all the way down to Renton in its 60 dBu. That same 60 dBu coverage map shows it doesn’t even make it to Pine St to the north, so it’s entirely possible that those of us who live to the north can’t even hear it! That being said, it negates it’s original purpose of being a translator for downtown.

I work down in North Seattle and have yet to get anything other than KMCQ since late last year.

 

[crainbebo]

Which is why Entercom should turn it into an HD2 translator of 'The Mountain.' Simple as that.
Back on topic, KXXO's 'no interference' post has been taken off Facebook, and they still have until the 8th. I guess they've reached a verdict? No matter what, if KKNW fires up that translator, it will be one of the biggest wastes of RF on the FM dial.

 

[seattlesarchiebunker]

My guess is someone from Hubbard tuned in 96.1 when they dashed out of Factoria one recent afternoon and realized what a dumpster fire that signal would be. Under its proposed facilities, it’d cover Factoria, and basically everything north going up to downtown Bellevue. Not a particularly great signal — even worse when you have a 50-60 dBu signal on top of it. There will be no way to even try to listen to it past the FCC 60 dBu contours...it’ll be stepped on by KXXO basically everywhere besides Factoria and downtown Bellevue.

I have a strange feeling whoever prepared this application was not from ‘round these here parts, did their due diligence and checked to make sure it follows the rule of law, but didn’t do the most important aspect of searching for an empty channel...listen to it to see if it is indeed empty. The 60 dBu contour rule makes great sense when translators do what they’re originally designed to do: rebroadcast a signal in a place where the originating signal cannot normally be received. When you are basically allowing a new batch of radio stations to squeeze themselves into a piece of a metro area, you are going to get some idiotic applications like this...

This is why I’m in favor of switching translators having to not cause significant interference in a Longley-Rice model. Precedent has shown the FCC has accepted Longley-Rice for putting an acceptable signal over a city of license. Considering our friends in Canuckistan offers a free L-R tool online, I’m not sure why this hasn’t happened yet...it would clear up a lot of this translator mess we are starting to see here and in other large metro areas.

 

[Rob Piotrowski]

Good news for KXXO Fans! The deadline to respond has been EXTENDED!! (extended by who, who knows).
But you need to act NOW as the FCC could rule ANY DAY!!!
http://mixx96.com/no-interference

 

[KXA]

I used to listen to KXXO on occasion when I lived in Pierce County many years ago. Their audio has always sounded rather muffled and dull. Nothing to really attract listeners when scanning the dial...if anyone even does that any more.

 

[Rob Piotrowski]

And - KXXO WINS!!! https://radioinsight.com/headlines/...d-surrenders-seattle-translator-applications/

 

[crainbebo]

KUDOS to KXXO! Knew they could do it! There are people who commute from Thurston and south Pierce County all the way to Seattle - and I'm sure some of them enjoy Mixx. Boo hoo Hubbard, your KKNW (which is 0.0 in the PPM *always*) doesn't get a pipsqueak FM translator.