KYOT - New Format A Bummer!

[Hamp]

I recently came back to town and heard the new format...didn't like it...sent a note to the station and was told yes changes were made and to hear smooth jazz tune into the web site or HD Radio....The same thing was done here in New York City to CD 101.9. A slew of new music was mixed in and within 8 months it was gone, now a classic rock station....It's sad...I started listening to KHAM out of Prescott. But Smooth air personalities don't seem to have a tie to the music, like they are elsewhere...it's like listening to John Sterling call a Yankee game...he's there but the game he's calling isn't the one you're looking at....

With all due respect to you, NYC and PHX are two totally different radio markets. NYC already had two established Urban Adult stations, WBLS and WRKS (in which RKS is owned by the same company as 101.9). Their really wasn't room for ANOTHER Urban adult directed station in NYC. PHX is different since there isn't an established Urban Adult powerhouse like it is in NYC.

 

[johndavis]

PHX is different since there isn't an established Urban Adult powerhouse like it is in NYC.

The ethnic makeup of the two cities means there will never be an urban adult powerhouse in Phoenix.

Rhythmic, yes. Urban, no. The audience won't relate to shows like Joyner, Harvey, Baisden, or Ricky Smiley. That's a totally different culture.

 

[Hamp]

PHX is different since there isn't an established Urban Adult powerhouse like it is in NYC.

The ethnic makeup of the two cities means there will never be an urban adult powerhouse in Phoenix.

Rhythmic, yes. Urban, no. The audience won't relate to shows like Joyner, Harvey, Baisden, or Ricky Smiley. That's a totally different culture.

That was my whole point. Meaning NYC has already has strong Urban Adult Radio, that's why when CD 101.9 tried the same thing it didn't work. It would also have to do with the demos in NYC. Rhythmic Urban AC can work in PHX since there really isn't any major competition. I totally get it. There are a lot of African-American adults in the valley (nothing like Dallas, Chicago, Philly or Houston), but they are there and they ARE worth something to advertisers. But you do have to appeal to the majority as well.

In terms of the syndicated morning shows such as: Tom Joyner, Steve Harvey, etc. I think the audience in the valley (black AND white) will not necessarily relate to those shows. African-Americans (as well as others) that live in the west tend to have a different vibe than those in the east and south. It is hard to describe, but for those who live out west will know what I am talking about. The racial attitudes seem to be a lot better in the west.

 

[XMportable]

Being a Phoenix native, The reason why old school works is that people remeber stations like KUKQ & magic 107 since they have been cutoff from the format for more than a decade. There was a time when the format worked in Phoenix with a very little black population was required. This was when the old school was the new school. Since, that time, the black population has probably more than doubled. If a full fledged urban AC radio won't work, the non-exposure of the music format is more the reason. Hiphop only worked because of the exposure and choice. It was what was on the radio. I bet if kids weren't as exposed to it on the radio in the last 20 years it probably wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. Hopefully, with internet radio location will be less of a reason of not having a particular format in a particular location.

 

[beauduran]

Being a Phoenix native, The reason why old school works is that people remeber stations like KUKQ & magic 107 since they have been cutoff from the format for more than a decade.

No, the reason why Old School works is because the vast majority of the current audience for the format moved here from somewhere else that these songs were hits. If you walked down to any mall on any side of town, or in front of a DBacks game or whatever and asked 100 people if they know what "KUKQ" or "Majic 107" are/were, I bet you would get 96 blank stares. 3 of them might vaguely remember those radio stations and the last one would only recognize the KUKQ calls from driving by the building in Guadalupe since they're STILL on there.

Sadly I don't have the numbers in front of me right now but maybe someone (Eduardo or "Justthenumbers" perhaps?) does that show the large majority of radio users who have moved to Phoenix since the 80's. Natives like you and I are rare, and those who ARE natives were listening to KZZP in the 80s and Power/Y95 in the 90's. Despite what some former employees like to say, KUKQ and Majic were always niche and never a major factor in creating hits for the city.

Somebody above hit the nail on the head. The trick is to be mass appeal. The sad truth is that you don't have to target the black audience directly because they don't have anywhere else to go. So if you give them more than they're getting from anyone else in town but still appealing to the 42 year old White soccer mom in Gilbert along with the 39 year old Hispanic in Avondale...you're gonna have success.

 

[Wildstyle K]

PHX is different since there isn't an established Urban Adult powerhouse like it is in NYC.

The ethnic makeup of the two cities means there will never be an urban adult powerhouse in Phoenix.

Rhythmic, yes. Urban, no. The audience won't relate to shows like Joyner, Harvey, Baisden, or Ricky Smiley. That's a totally different culture.

That was my whole point. Meaning NYC has already has strong Urban Adult Radio, that's why when CD 101.9 tried the same thing it didn't work. It would also have to do with the demos in NYC. Rhythmic Urban AC can work in PHX since there really isn't any major competition. I totally get it. There are a lot of African-American adults in the valley (nothing like Dallas, Chicago, Philly or Houston), but they are there and they ARE worth something to advertisers. But you do have to appeal to the majority as well.

In terms of the syndicated morning shows such as: Tom Joyner, Steve Harvey, etc. I think the audience in the valley (black AND white) will not necessarily relate to those shows. African-Americans (as well as others) that live in the west tend to have a different vibe than those in the east and south. It is hard to describe, but for those who live out west will know what I am talking about. The racial attitudes seem to be a lot better in the west.

100% correct.

 

[Wildstyle K]

Being a Phoenix native, The reason why old school works is that people remeber stations like KUKQ & magic 107 since they have been cutoff from the format for more than a decade.

No, the reason why Old School works is because the vast majority of the current audience for the format moved here from somewhere else that these songs were hits. If you walked down to any mall on any side of town, or in front of a DBacks game or whatever and asked 100 people if they know what "KUKQ" or "Majic 107" are/were, I bet you would get 96 blank stares. 3 of them might vaguely remember those radio stations and the last one would only recognize the KUKQ calls from driving by the building in Guadalupe since they're STILL on there.

Sadly I don't have the numbers in front of me right now but maybe someone (Eduardo or "Justthenumbers" perhaps?) does that show the large majority of radio users who have moved to Phoenix since the 80's. Natives like you and I are rare, and those who ARE natives were listening to KZZP in the 80s and Power/Y95 in the 90's. Despite what some former employees like to say, KUKQ and Majic were always niche and never a major factor in creating hits for the city.

Somebody above hit the nail on the head. The trick is to be mass appeal. The sad truth is that you don't have to target the black audience directly because they don't have anywhere else to go. So if you give them more than they're getting from anyone else in town but still appealing to the 42 year old White soccer mom in Gilbert along with the 39 year old Hispanic in Avondale...you're gonna have success.

100% correct, too.

 

[EricStein]

No, the reason why Old School works is because the vast majority of the current audience for the format moved here from somewhere else that these songs were hits. If you walked down to any mall on any side of town, or in front of a DBacks game or whatever and asked 100 people if they know what "KUKQ" or "Majic 107" are/were, I bet you would get 96 blank stares. 3 of them might vaguely remember those radio stations and the last one would only recognize the KUKQ calls from driving by the building in Guadalupe since they're STILL on there.

Sadly I don't have the numbers in front of me right now but maybe someone (Eduardo or "Justthenumbers" perhaps?) does that show the large majority of radio users who have moved to Phoenix since the 80's. Natives like you and I are rare, and those who ARE natives were listening to KZZP in the 80s and Power/Y95 in the 90's. Despite what some former employees like to say, KUKQ and Majic were always niche and never a major factor in creating hits for the city.

Somebody above hit the nail on the head. The trick is to be mass appeal. The sad truth is that you don't have to target the black audience directly because they don't have anywhere else to go. So if you give them more than they're getting from anyone else in town but still appealing to the 42 year old White soccer mom in Gilbert along with the 39 year old Hispanic in Avondale...you're gonna have success.

From the numbers I remember, KUKQ (during its urban years) averaged a 2 share in the ratings. It didn't hurt that they tried to appeal to the Hispanic listeners as well. This was when KZZP and KOPA were heavy with the Bruce Springsteen and Huey Lewis. KKFR came in, started to lean more rhythmic in FM stereo, and that marked the end of KUKQ's R&B format. Majik peaked when Power switched to its short-lived rock-heavy Top 40 format in late '93 and '94 because there was nowhere else to go for rhythmic product, other than Kiss 1230.

As for Beau's observation regarding KUKQ and Majik. I'd say that a couple people would remember KUKQ as the station that they first heard The Cure on in 1989.

 

[DJ_Perry]

I'd say that a couple people would remember KUKQ as the station that they first heard The Cure on in 1989.

As much as I enjoyed the Urban KUKQ, I have to agree that the Alternative KUKQ was the format that worked best and stood out the most.

 

[johndavis]

From the numbers I remember, KUKQ (during its urban years) averaged a 2 share in the ratings. It didn't hurt that they tried to appeal to the Hispanic listeners as well. This was when KZZP and KOPA were heavy with the Bruce Springsteen and Huey Lewis. KKFR came in, started to lean more rhythmic in FM stereo, and that marked the end of KUKQ's R&B format. Majik peaked when Power switched to its short-lived rock-heavy Top 40 format in late '93 and '94 because there was nowhere else to go for rhythmic product, other than Kiss 1230.

If I'm not mistaken, KUKQ had exited the format for country before KKFR began to flirt with rhythmic tunes. Jim Gillie played some urban-ish stuff during the day (Force MD's, MAC Band) up against Bon Jovi and played alternative-leaning stuff at night. Before Gillie came in, KKFR was very much a hot AC, even if they had the Slim one on staff. It wasn't until Fred hired Don Kelly as a consultant and brought in the short lived Ron Haney followed by Ron Parker that the station went full-on rhythmic targeted towards Hispanics. But even Parker would play white records like Bad English and Cher if they tested well enough with Hispanic women to broaden the appeal. With Hispanic diaries being weighted, the black audience was never really thought about. If they came along for the ride, fine... but Hispanic diaries counted double and that was the focus.

Majik peaked after Kiss was flipped to classic country. KMJK never got traction while 1230 was urban AC, and even after 1230 became a flanker attack against KNIX, KMJK struggled to get a 1 share. I love the music, but it just doesn't sound like Phoenix. You need to broaden it out.

So far, I like the direction of KYOT, but I wonder how much longer the super soft stuff will stick around. Maybe I'm wrong, but every other AC format is picking up tempo.

 

[johndavis]

As much as I enjoyed the Urban KUKQ, I have to agree that the Alternative KUKQ was the format that worked best and stood out the most.

Long live the Bone Mama!

 

[EricStein]

Majik peaked after Kiss was flipped to classic country. KMJK never got traction while 1230 was urban AC, and even after 1230 became a flanker attack against KNIX, KMJK struggled to get a 1 share. I love the music, but it just doesn't sound like Phoenix. You need to broaden it out.

Majik always had an issue with their signal, but those amplified once KVVA went 25kw on the east side and practically stomped on KMJK anywhere east of 16th Street. Majik was airing the Doug Banks morning show in the afternoon and sounded their worst, and was a no-show in the ratings a couple times even after KISO went classic country.

So far, I like the direction of KYOT, but I wonder how much longer the super soft stuff will stick around. Maybe I'm wrong, but every other AC format is picking up tempo.

Agreed. Today, I heard Gloria Estafan's "It's Too Late" as well as Michael Jackson's "You Are Not Alone," among other slower songs. These are just too soft for an otherwise upbeat format. Mega needs to think about lighter spot loads to boost TSL - their breaks are already filled with a lot of sleazy per-inquiry ads to begin with.

 

[XMportable]

Again, KUKQ -urban was around a long time. Magic 107 was around 9 year. While both of those stations were out there was very little black population. I am only a radio fan, but I ask. How can a station last 9 years if it is doing so poorly(thats a long time)? If those urban AC song were hits with other ethnic groups why would that change? Did any body listen to KYOT lately?, they sound just like Mega and look at their latest May ratings. Lastly but not least, I know the black population has more than doubled in the last 15 years because I am black and a native. MY MAIN POINT WAS WITH THE POPULARITY OF INTERNET RADIO THE LOCATION OF THE RADIO FORMAT SHOULD MATTER LESS AND LESS IN THE FUTURE.Urban AC IS ONE OF THE MOST LISTENED TO FORMATS IN AMERICA WITH A BLACK POPULATION OF ONLY 12%. IT CAN"T JUST BE PEOPLE IN ATLANTA LISTENING TO URBAN AC. ;D

 

[johndavis]

How can a station last 9 years if it is doing so poorly(thats a long time)?

I can think of some ways a station can hang on longer than they should. Speaking generally (there's lots of stations that fit into this category).

- paying crappy wages. There's always someone hungry enough for their first gig.
- missing payroll and not answering the phone on payday.
- not paying their bills on time.
- getting as many services on trade as possible so you don't have to spend cash.
- finding new suckers investors to pour money into a bottomless pit.

It's when you run out of the last one that the lights finally get turned out.

Heck, even when money isn't an issue, some people hang on to a format for too long. I'm thinking of a station that was blown up shortly after its 10th birthday, even though the station had pretty much died 6 years prior to that. People make bad business decisions all the time.

 

[johndavis]

Sadly I don't have the numbers in front of me right now but maybe someone (Eduardo or "Justthenumbers" perhaps?) does that show the large majority of radio users who have moved to Phoenix since the 80's. Natives like you and I are rare, and those who ARE natives were listening to KZZP in the 80s and Power/Y95 in the 90's. Despite what some former employees like to say, KUKQ and Majic were always niche and never a major factor in creating hits for the city.

I'm a native. I grew up on KZZP. It blew my mind when we brought that station back to a collective yawn in the valley. Most of the people in the demo were new to the city, and for those who remembered what the station used to be, it really didn't matter that much.

Lesson: what's in the past is in the past. Radio is now. We need to quit looking in the rear view mirror and create what people want today and not concentrate on bringing back what used to be.

 

[DJ_Perry]

- paying crappy wages. There's always someone hungry enough for their first gig.
- getting as many services on trade as possible so you don't have to spend cash.
- finding new suckers investors to pour money into a bottomless pit.

People make bad business decisions all the time.

it all sounds so familiar!

 

[michael hagerty]

Sadly I don't have the numbers in front of me right now but maybe someone (Eduardo or "Justthenumbers" perhaps?) does that show the large majority of radio users who have moved to Phoenix since the 80's. Natives like you and I are rare, and those who ARE natives were listening to KZZP in the 80s and Power/Y95 in the 90's. Despite what some former employees like to say, KUKQ and Majic were always niche and never a major factor in creating hits for the city.

I'm a native. I grew up on KZZP. It blew my mind when we brought that station back to a collective yawn in the valley. Most of the people in the demo were new to the city, and for those who remembered what the station used to be, it really didn't matter that much.

Lesson: what's in the past is in the past. Radio is now. We need to quit looking in the rear view mirror and create what people want today and not concentrate on bringing back what used to be.

Amen.

 

[2Son]

Sadly I don't have the numbers in front of me right now but maybe someone (Eduardo or "Justthenumbers" perhaps?) does that show the large majority of radio users who have moved to Phoenix since the 80's. Natives like you and I are rare, and those who ARE natives were listening to KZZP in the 80s and Power/Y95 in the 90's. Despite what some former employees like to say, KUKQ and Majic were always niche and never a major factor in creating hits for the city.

I'm a native. I grew up on KZZP. It blew my mind when we brought that station back to a collective yawn in the valley. Most of the people in the demo were new to the city, and for those who remembered what the station used to be, it really didn't matter that much.

Lesson: what's in the past is in the past. Radio is now. We need to quit looking in the rear view mirror and create what people want today and not concentrate on bringing back what used to be.

I don't even see radio trying to bring back what was in the past. I ALSO do not see radio trying to create what people want today. Do people REALLY want to hear the same 10-20 songs over and over and over again by the same 10-20 artists?

I don't think so; however, radio has led people to believe that this is what they want because it is all that they offer to the audience. What other choice does the audience have other than to just tune out?

 

[XMportable]

I don't even see radio trying to bring back what was in the past. I ALSO do not see radio trying to create what people want today. Do people REALLY want to hear the same 10-20 songs over and over and over again by the same 10-20 artists?

I don't think so; however, radio has led people to believe that this is what they want because it is all that they offer to the audience. What other choice does the audience have other than to just tune out?
[/quote]


AMEN... Internet is going to change radio & how they compete.

 

[Groove1670]

CC will fade out the Smooth Jazz, yes the will lose some listeners but will gain others. It is actually a smart move, they did the same thing when they evolved several of their rhythmic AC's to CHR (Detroit, Atlanta, Pensacola Etc.) Right now I would call KYOT a "Feel good" crossover R&B station with a Jazz lean Whewww!! 8)

As a 45 year old white male. I like it (sidebar.. I am from South Florida where CHR's leaned rhythmic back in the day.)

It is not a Urban AC. I could do without the ballads and the Smooth Jazz.

It's is great to hear The Supremes, Madonna, EWF, Bobby Brown, George Michael, & UB 40, Force MD's & Lisa Stansfield on one station.

It has been awhile since I have heard a station play Lisa Lisa, and Timex Social Club..a wow...factor.

I think the Movin format (minus the Jazz/Heavy ballads) would have been a success if it would of used the KYOT formula.

Note: WMIA in Miami, leave the currents to Y100, Hot 105, and power 96 or the numbers will slide.