KYW 1060

[AdamfromPhilly]

Firstly, I hope this is the correct forum for this question. If not, please direct me.

I live in the Philadelphia area and listen regularly to KYW 1060. When I was in Virgina Beach on Christmas I heard the station very clearly. I was looking for a local station to listen the the Eagles-Cowboys game on my ride back.

It was @ 5:45 PM and it was very cloudy and rainy. My knowledge of reception is very limited, but I understood that KYW was not a 50k watt station. Can anyone explain how I could hear that station, but not 1210 AM?

Thanks in advance.

 

[w9wi]

I live in the Philadelphia area and listen regularly to KYW 1060. When I was in Virgina Beach on Christmas I heard the station very clearly. I was looking for a local station to listen the the Eagles-Cowboys game on my ride back.

It was @ 5:45 PM and it was very cloudy and rainy. My knowledge of reception is very limited, but I understood that KYW was not a 50k watt station. Can anyone explain how I could hear that station, but not 1210 AM?

Actually KYW is a 50kw station. If KYW and 1210 radiated exactly the same amount of power, KYW would have a slight signal edge due to their lower dial position.

Unlike WPHT 1210, KYW uses a directional antenna. Same pattern day and night. (I believe it's protecting WEPN 1050 in NYC) http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/306886-6621.pdf

I live in the Philadelphia area and listen regularly to KYW 1060. When I was in Virgina Beach on Christmas I heard the station very clearly. I was looking for a local station to listen the the Eagles-Cowboys game on my ride back.

It was @ 5:45 PM and it was very cloudy and rainy. My knowledge of reception is very limited, but I understood that KYW was not a 50k watt station. Can anyone explain how I could hear that station, but not 1210 AM?
[/quote]

Actually KYW is a 50kw station. If KYW and 1210 radiated exactly the same amount of power, KYW would have a slight signal edge due to their lower dial position.

Unlike WPHT 1210, KYW uses a directional antenna. Same pattern day and night. (I believe it's protecting WEPN 1050 in NYC) [url]http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/306886-6621.pdf]

I live in the Philadelphia area and listen regularly to KYW 1060. When I was in Virgina Beach on Christmas I heard the station very clearly. I was looking for a local station to listen the the Eagles-Cowboys game on my ride back.

It was @ 5:45 PM and it was very cloudy and rainy. My knowledge of reception is very limited, but I understood that KYW was not a 50k watt station. Can anyone explain how I could hear that station, but not 1210 AM?

Actually KYW is a 50kw station. If KYW and 1210 radiated exactly the same amount of power, KYW would have a slight signal edge due to their lower dial position.

Unlike WPHT 1210, KYW uses a directional antenna. Same pattern day and night. (I believe it's protecting WEPN 1050 in NYC) [url]http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/306886-6621.pdf shows the directional characteristics. It does seem to pretty much favor Virginia Beach.

Weather has relatively little effect on long-distance AM reception. (unless a nearby thunderstorm is generating lots of static!) AM reception is more affected by phenomona that happen higher in the atmosphere.

Personally, I think WPHT 1210 simply has a wimpy signal!

 

[KeithE4]

Firstly, I hope this is the correct forum for this question. If not, please direct me.

I live in the Philadelphia area and listen regularly to KYW 1060. When I was in Virgina Beach on Christmas I heard the station very clearly. I was looking for a local station to listen the the Eagles-Cowboys game on my ride back.

It was @ 5:45 PM and it was very cloudy and rainy. My knowledge of reception is very limited, but I understood that KYW was not a 50k watt station. Can anyone explain how I could hear that station, but not 1210 AM?

Thanks in advance.

KYW has a null to the NE to protect ESPN 1050 in NYC. I used to listen to them regularly in Chicago and they put a good signal into the midwest. WPHT is non-directional but KYW gets out a bit better due to the better propagation on 1060 compared to 1210. Both stations run 50,000 watts fulltime.

Interestingly, the coverage maps for KYW and WIP 610 are almost identical, to the point where they look like they share a tower site (they don't). I guess that's proof that 5 kW at the low end of the dial is as good as 50 kW in the middle or at the high end. But there's no sky wave on 610, which explains why WIP is not normally heard in Chicago, while KYW is.

Link: WIP 610 Coverage Map (directional w/same pattern 24/7)
Link: KYW 1060 Coverage Map (directional w/same pattern 24/7)
Link: WPHT 1210 Coverage Map (non-directional 24/7)

 

[BRNout]

I must agree that WPHT has a wimpy signal for a 50 kw "blow torch" - day and night. Reception of it is spotty as close as 40 miles to the west of downtown Philadelphia - day and night. Ground conductivity is probably the issue - as I have picked it up as far west as Iowa (*although I got WBZ, WABC and WFAN that night too).

But, locally, it just doesn't get out nearly as far from the tx as (for example) WABC or WCBS do from their tx sites. Not even close. If I didn't know better, I'd think it was a 10kw D/5 kw N signal, based on how they sound in the suburbs of Philly.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I've gotten a very good signal from WPHT at night in North Carolina. I especially like it when they do standards, though I haven't thought to listen to them lately.

 

[davideduardo]

I must agree that WPHT has a wimpy signal for a 50 kw "blow torch" - day and night. Reception of it is spotty as close as 40 miles to the west of downtown Philadelphia - day and night. Ground conductivity is probably the issue - as I have picked it up as far west as Iowa (*although I got WBZ, WABC and WFAN that night too).

But, locally, it just doesn't get out nearly as far from the tx as (for example) WABC or WCBS do from their tx sites. Not even close. If I didn't know better, I'd think it was a 10kw D/5 kw N signal, based on how they sound in the suburbs of Philly.

To start off, it is on 1210, so the coverage given equal electrical height of the tower and ground conductivity will be about half that of 880 and even less than that of 770. NYC stations are in either a marshland or on "ilsands" in the river, so they have much better grounds than the Philly stations do, as well, making a comparison even less appropriate. A better comparison would be with WHAM; both higher band 1-A clears in areas without the greatest ground conductivity.

 

[BRNout]

To start off, it is on 1210, so the coverage given equal electrical height of the tower and ground conductivity will be about half that of 880 and even less than that of 770. NYC stations are in either a marshland or on "ilsands" in the river, so they have much better grounds than the Philly stations do, as well, making a comparison even less appropriate. A better comparison would be with WHAM; both higher band 1-A clears in areas without the greatest ground conductivity.

Thanks for the good explanation - and perhaps the antenna height doesn't line up well with the wave length either. I have had the opportunity to live in several major markets and to travel to most of them and WPHT still seems to have about the worst 50 kw daytime signal I've ever heard. It's not even impressive within 20 miles of the tx site. Comes in ok, but just ok. Turn the radio and you can almost null it out - day and night.

With respect to higher frequencies, I know that they are in very different environments but the 1520 signals of both WWKB and KOMA (now KOKC or something like that) are both much bigger day and night than WPHT. And, I lived in UT for many years and can tell you that KSL at 1160 is overwhelmingly strong for at least 30 miles from its tx site. It's a local grade signal for more than 100 miles and even penetrates the Wasatch Mountains. Granted, there could not be a better tx site for ground conductivity than the shore of the Great Salt Lake!!

I suppose that the ground conductivity around Pennsylvania must be quite poor because KYW is only a little better than WPHT and KDKA does not have an impressive ground wave signal from Pittsburgh either. But, WPHT is so weak (in relative terms) that it fades below underpasses in the Great Valley area (i.e. Malvern) - less than 25 air miles from their tower!! It's gone before you get to Newark, NJ and fades to very weak before Harrisburg, PA to the west. Both are less than 100 miles out. Some 50,000 watter.....

 

[vibe]

Re: PHT 1210

I've listened to Phillies games during the day about 8-10 mi N of Old Saybrook CT. Station was weak but listenable but I was about 180+ air miles to Philly. Yes there was a partial salt water path as I was inland a bit.
On the Conn coast (Old Saybrook-Clinton) the signal is strong- almost city grade-just "a little" less strong than the NYC biggies.

 

[K4WRF]

Soil conductivity is terrible along the eastern seaboard, just plain poor in the southeast and good in the midwest. This condition is the arbiter of all daytime AM coverage. Take a look at the FCC M3 map at the following , http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/m3/ AM antenna systems must meet minimum FCC criteria. For class “A” stations like WPHT and KYW. Specifically, Part 73.182(6)(0) of the FCC rules require a minimum field of 362 mv/m at1km/1kw. This field can only be developed by a radiator with a length of 164.4 electrical degrees or higher and 120 ground radials with an average length of 90 electrical degrees. Some stations employ lengths of up to 210 electrical degrees but after that, high angle sky-wave develops a near fade wall problem. Very few stations employ true “Franklin” antennas that are very efficient. So there is really no such thing as a station just having a crappy antenna system that impacts the coverage.

w/