Why would CBS want to put KYW on FM, when KYW is already #1 in the market ? You'd be hurting one revunue stream to create another one. I understand if KYW-AM was doing poorly in the ratings , but that's not the case. CBS dumped AC for all news on an FM in Chicago, and the FM simulcast hasn't really caught on. What other format options would CBS consider?
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KYW-FM...It makes no sense
- Thread starter superjj
- Start date
F
fmradio1
Guest
Big signal FM's don't come up for sale often. If CBS is looking for an eventual FM home for KYW, they'd be wise to look at it. The last thing they want to have to do is sacrifice WOGL if KYW all of a sudden starts slipping in the ratings. KYW is about the only usable thing left on the AM in most of the Philly market. Sure, it will be nice to have a national sports feed on 610, WPHT has it's audience and WDAS/1480 is a cool listen, but the vast majority of listening is on FM. And the ratings can go south at anytime. WBZ used to rule the Boston airwaves, but has recently slipped to seventh overall. CBS will have to address that situation eventually. I doubt they want to have that issue with KYW. I don't think CBS will have the room to fit another FM under the ownership caps, since they control two TV stations, three AM's and two FM's. They would have to spin off one of the AM's (610 or 1060 itself) as part of the deal most likely.
KYW is No. 1 6+ or 12+, but not in "the money demo" of 25-54. And all-news is an incredibly expensive format ... perhaps the most expensive one to run.
And it's been reported elsewhere that the FM simulcast of WBBM in Chicago has improved that station's 25-54 numbers. The simulcast of KCBS-AM in San Francisco had a huge positive effect on 25-54.
I get the feeling people don't want to see spoken word on FM because they think it's taking the place of a potential music format.
There are more sources for music listening today: Pandora, Slacker, Sirius/XM, online-only stations. FM listenership itself is slowly eroding. CBS sees an opportunity to be THE large market provider of all-news and all-sports stations in the U.S. on FM. It's a niche few other radio owners have sought to fill. And, long-term, the best way for them to fill the niche is to put these stations on FM -- which it's already been doing.
The good news for those who don't want to see spoken-word formats on FM: There will be a limited number of viable opportunities in each market for these stations. A couple of sports talkers. Probably just one successful all-news or news-talk station. And this only seems to be happening in markets with a surplus of FM signals. It might be a long, long time before you see a spoken word FM in, for example, Wilmington, DE or Allentown, PA, because of the lack of whole-market signals in those places.
And it's been reported elsewhere that the FM simulcast of WBBM in Chicago has improved that station's 25-54 numbers. The simulcast of KCBS-AM in San Francisco had a huge positive effect on 25-54.
I get the feeling people don't want to see spoken word on FM because they think it's taking the place of a potential music format.
There are more sources for music listening today: Pandora, Slacker, Sirius/XM, online-only stations. FM listenership itself is slowly eroding. CBS sees an opportunity to be THE large market provider of all-news and all-sports stations in the U.S. on FM. It's a niche few other radio owners have sought to fill. And, long-term, the best way for them to fill the niche is to put these stations on FM -- which it's already been doing.
The good news for those who don't want to see spoken-word formats on FM: There will be a limited number of viable opportunities in each market for these stations. A couple of sports talkers. Probably just one successful all-news or news-talk station. And this only seems to be happening in markets with a surplus of FM signals. It might be a long, long time before you see a spoken word FM in, for example, Wilmington, DE or Allentown, PA, because of the lack of whole-market signals in those places.
It makes sense as KYW AM has signal issues with their protection to 1050 in New York. The FM would really help out there plus give them an edge overall.
DaveWilliams said:It makes sense as KYW AM has signal issues with their protection to 1050 in New York. The FM would really help out there plus give them an edge overall.
Those are positives. It's outweighed by the negative, which is the opportunity cost of whatever format they're not putting on whatever FM signal they'd use.
Signal issues or not, they're consistently top 3 in the ratings. Why lose out on revenue from another format to bolster an AM signal that doesn't need any help (at least not yet)?
fmradio1 said:Big signal FM's don't come up for sale often. If CBS is looking for an eventual FM home for KYW, they'd be wise to look at it. The last thing they want to have to do is sacrifice WOGL if KYW all of a sudden starts slipping in the ratings. KYW is about the only usable thing left on the AM in most of the Philly market. Sure, it will be nice to have a national sports feed on 610, WPHT has it's audience and WDAS/1480 is a cool listen, but the vast majority of listening is on FM. And the ratings can go south at anytime. WBZ used to rule the Boston airwaves, but has recently slipped to seventh overall. CBS will have to address that situation eventually. I doubt they want to have that issue with KYW. I don't think CBS will have the room to fit another FM under the ownership caps, since they control two TV stations, three AM's and two FM's. They would have to spin off one of the AM's (610 or 1060 itself) as part of the deal most likely.
It's already been discussed that CBS wouldn't be over any ownership caps if they end up buying 106.9. Also who's to say CBS would immediately put KYW there once they buy it? I could definitely see them putting another format on there and have KYW there in the future if need be.
If I were the Monday morning quarterback, I'd get my news/talker on FM in a heartbeat. I grew up on AM, but I'm at the upper end of 25-54.
Subtract ten years, and most people have little concept of AM. Add increasing noise problems on AM and FM makes more and more sense.
Subtract ten years, and most people have little concept of AM. Add increasing noise problems on AM and FM makes more and more sense.
Prognostication: If CBS grabs 106.9, in all probability they'll keep it a news/talker, supplementing news inserts with KYW anchors. KYW NewsRadio will remain at 1060 and internet. However, The calls of 106.9 would advisably change to KYW-FM.
KYW-FM actually existed at one time on 92.5 before it was donated as an "educational" station, devoted solely to education. Walter Annenberg donated the old studio equipment of WFIL-FM (originally at the Widener bldg) to the startup, when WFIL implemented the move to 46th & Market St. The license was flipped to non comm and a petition to change the calls and reassign the allocation to 90.1 was granted rendering 92.5 dark until it's reallocation.
KYW first broadcast on 1020 kHz until March 1941, when KYW changed frequencies to 1060 kHz as part of a nationwide shift of radio frequencies mandated by the North American Radio Broadcasting Agreement.
KYW-FM actually existed at one time on 92.5 before it was donated as an "educational" station, devoted solely to education. Walter Annenberg donated the old studio equipment of WFIL-FM (originally at the Widener bldg) to the startup, when WFIL implemented the move to 46th & Market St. The license was flipped to non comm and a petition to change the calls and reassign the allocation to 90.1 was granted rendering 92.5 dark until it's reallocation.
KYW first broadcast on 1020 kHz until March 1941, when KYW changed frequencies to 1060 kHz as part of a nationwide shift of radio frequencies mandated by the North American Radio Broadcasting Agreement.
M
mcradiofree
Guest
radiophiler said:KYW is No. 1 6+ or 12+, but not in "the money demo" of 25-54. And all-news is an incredibly expensive format ... perhaps the most expensive one to run.
And it's been reported elsewhere that the FM simulcast of WBBM in Chicago has improved that station's 25-54 numbers. The simulcast of KCBS-AM in San Francisco had a huge positive effect on 25-54.
You couldn't be further away from reality if you tried. KYW is and has been for years THE top biller in Philly. The only thing close to it is the number 2 B-101. Also, there are nomusic royalty fees involved in the format, and kick-back money flows from other sources, i.e network affiliations, Metro traffic (feeds a million a year to KYW).
CBS could always try a format swap with GM like radio one tried years ago with y100. They could even do a frequency swap where GM takes over 98.1 & 95.7 becomes kyw.Mike said:And if CBS was too flip WOGL watch and see how fast Greater media or clear channel picks up the format
True, KYW is top biller in Philly. As for less money for music licensing, they have more expenses from the huge staff they have -- salaries and benefits.
And for more on why news/talk/sports stations are simulcasting on FM, see the post on the Atlanta board with Rodney Ho's analysis of what's been going on with radio in that market. Take note of point 3 regarding the migration of talk to FM.
Not sure why CBS would keep some sort of talk programming on 106.9 if they buy it. First, CBS' pattern in other markets has been to put sports or all-news on FM, not conservative talk. Second, it would compete with what they have on 1210. Third, they just got rid of all the syndicated programs currently on 106.9. I can't imagine them staffing two separate talkers in Philly. And given the choice of putting KYW or WPHT programming on FM, I think they'd go with the station they think would benefit most from the move. A good station could get even better (KYW). A mediocre station can only improve so much (see ESPN's move to FM in NYC).
I think the likelihood of CBS ending up with 106.9 has decreased somewhat. If CBS was able to do a deal with Merlin for Philly, I wonder why it wasn't announced at the same time as the NYC deal. Perhaps it's because there is competition bidding for 106.9 in Philly. CBS lost a bid for the signal once when Family Radio first put it up for bids. CBS got Family's Annapolis station, but missed out on WKDN. History might be repeating itself.
And for more on why news/talk/sports stations are simulcasting on FM, see the post on the Atlanta board with Rodney Ho's analysis of what's been going on with radio in that market. Take note of point 3 regarding the migration of talk to FM.
Not sure why CBS would keep some sort of talk programming on 106.9 if they buy it. First, CBS' pattern in other markets has been to put sports or all-news on FM, not conservative talk. Second, it would compete with what they have on 1210. Third, they just got rid of all the syndicated programs currently on 106.9. I can't imagine them staffing two separate talkers in Philly. And given the choice of putting KYW or WPHT programming on FM, I think they'd go with the station they think would benefit most from the move. A good station could get even better (KYW). A mediocre station can only improve so much (see ESPN's move to FM in NYC).
I think the likelihood of CBS ending up with 106.9 has decreased somewhat. If CBS was able to do a deal with Merlin for Philly, I wonder why it wasn't announced at the same time as the NYC deal. Perhaps it's because there is competition bidding for 106.9 in Philly. CBS lost a bid for the signal once when Family Radio first put it up for bids. CBS got Family's Annapolis station, but missed out on WKDN. History might be repeating itself.
superjj said:Why would CBS want to put KYW on FM, when KYW is already #1 in the market ? You'd be hurting one revunue stream to create another one. I understand if KYW-AM was doing poorly in the ratings , but that's not the case. CBS dumped AC for all news on an FM in Chicago, and the FM simulcast hasn't really caught on. What other format options would CBS consider?
Wait One second WBBM 105.9 FM has been at a 4.x-5.x for 2 years. How is it Failing? Look at KCBS San Francisco they were the first CBS O&O to have their all-news format on FM after KFRC Classic Hits Failed on 106.9 FM in 2008 and they have been doing well for 4 years now. Also WTOP-FM the Hubbard Owned/CBS Affiliate all-news station and has done well on FM and has the Highest Revenue in Washington DC Market along with their Translators.
recto101 said:superjj said:Why would CBS want to put KYW on FM, when KYW is already #1 in the market ? You'd be hurting one revunue stream to create another one. I understand if KYW-AM was doing poorly in the ratings , but that's not the case. CBS dumped AC for all news on an FM in Chicago, and the FM simulcast hasn't really caught on. What other format options would CBS consider?
Wait One second WBBM 105.9 FM has been at a 4.x-5.x for 2 years. How is it Failing? Look at KCBS San Francisco they were the first CBS O&O to have their all-news format on FM after KFRC Classic Hits Failed on 106.9 FM in 2008 and they have been doing well for 4 years now. Also WTOP-FM the Hubbard Owned/CBS Affiliate all-news station and has done well on FM and has the Highest Revenue in Washington DC Market along with their Translators.
You can't compare WTOP. When it was on AM, it didn't reach half the market. It's not the signal 1060 is, and the DC market is geographically a lot different than it was when the signal pattern for 1500 AM was decided. Lots of the market is west of 1500's local contour.
Also, WTOP has the highest billing in the *entire country*. Not just Washington DC.
But the point isn't whether all news does well. The point is whether it does so well as to make more revenue than the all news station on AM PLUS a music station on FM. That's a pretty tall order considering how well 1060 is doing today.
I will say, OTOH, that 1060 might soon be the only viable AM station left in Philly, with 610 and 950 now essentially gone ratings-wise, and 1210 being edged out of its format by 106.9. Which means dial flippers may stop going there as much.
Sam Lit said:KYW first broadcast on 1020 kHz until March 1941, when KYW changed frequencies to 1060 kHz as part of a nationwide shift of radio frequencies mandated by the North American Radio Broadcasting Agreement.
"K-Y-Double-you...News Ray-de-oh...Ten-twen-teeee..." Somehow that wouldn't've sounded right...
Where on the dial was KDKA before it moved to 1020? Wikipedia doesn't say.
ixnay
ixnay said:Sam Lit said:KYW first broadcast on 1020 kHz until March 1941, when KYW changed frequencies to 1060 kHz as part of a nationwide shift of radio frequencies mandated by the North American Radio Broadcasting Agreement.
"K-Y-Double-you...News Ray-de-oh...Ten-twen-teeee..." Somehow that wouldn't've sounded right...
Where on the dial was KDKA before it moved to 1020? Wikipedia doesn't say.
ixnay
It was on 980. This page includes a chart with the major NARBA changes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Radio_Broadcasting_Agreement
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