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KYW: Sad State of Local Radio
- Thread starter gakski
- Start date
J
Jul
Guest
They need to stop doing that.gakski said:
They don't need to stop doing that. If they were smart, they probably would.
What's happening is people realize they don't need to listen two, three, four times a day - or even occasionally. That they are not getting the world or traffic and weather every 10 minutes. People can get instant traffic from smart phones and GPS devices. Weather and school closings immediately from the Internet. What KYW did that was unique and indispensable 40 plus years ago is obsolete. They might as well go back to playing opera.
What's happening is people realize they don't need to listen two, three, four times a day - or even occasionally. That they are not getting the world or traffic and weather every 10 minutes. People can get instant traffic from smart phones and GPS devices. Weather and school closings immediately from the Internet. What KYW did that was unique and indispensable 40 plus years ago is obsolete. They might as well go back to playing opera.
MattParker said:
That is where you're wrong, Matt. As much as I hate to agree with him, I'm with Julius on this one.
Not everyone has or can afford internet access, smartphones and GPS systems. Thus there is what makes local radio indispensable and relevant, even in today's world of advanced technology. Even the most forward-thinking person can understand that simple fact.
Having said that, it is embarrassing for a major-market all-news station to be on tape at any time, let alone during the early stages of a weather emergency. Whomever made that call should be ashamed of themselves.
I
imhomerjay
Guest
Not everyone can afford such trappings to be sure. But it's not cost effective to cater to a dwindling percentage of the audience. If it's no longer cost effective to do something in the middle of the night, you focus your resources where it is cost effective. Basic business 101.
Rollo-Smokes said:
The proportion of the population that does not have Internet access, GPS and mobile device keeps getting smaller every day. The prices keep dropping and access to technology is seen as more necessary by more people. One reason people decide they need such devices is instances like the one gasksi describes where radio falls down on the job. HomerJay's point is absolutely correct. I'll add to it: Those people who can not afford Internet access or mobile devices are not an audience most advertisers want to target. KYW, or any other station, can not stay in business if the only listeners they have left are the geezer and poverty demos.
I also have to wonder if anybody in the middle of snow storm needs to be told they are in the middle of a snow storm ("Hey, Martha, what's that white stuff outside?" "I don't know, John, let's turn on KYW to find out.") - or to hear traffic reports when anybody with an IQ higher than the current temperature is staying off the roads. I think a case can be made that not only can KYW get by with a "tape loop" from the last hour - they can get by with a standard snow storm tape loop, since they pretty much say the same thing every time it snows. That same thing usually amounts to "don't be stupid," (i.e., drive carefully, stay off the roads, don't give yourself a heart attack shoveling snow), there was a run on eggs, milk and bread at the Ak-A-Me and people who think snow shovels - like Kleenex - can only be used once were out buying snow shovels - again.
Guys, this is not about internet, GPS, or mobile devices, because at 3AM, people who would use them are asleep, just like the vast majority of the radio listeners.
It's 3 AM. What is the anchor at KYW supposed to say? "It's 22 degrees, snow is falling on Independence Square." What else do you need to know? Some bus broke down in a neighborhood far away? Really? That's life and death reporting?
While you were up checking the radio station, did you turn on CNN or Fox? What were they doing? I'll tell you: They were running pre-recorded stuff from earlier in the evening. That's not local, but national. Even The Weather Channel goes into pre-record mode in overnight. What was local TV doing? They probably were in infomercials until 4AM. That's when everything goes live for morning drive.
Come on. Go to bed. Get some rest. Work is going to be called off any way. Take a break for once.
It's 3 AM. What is the anchor at KYW supposed to say? "It's 22 degrees, snow is falling on Independence Square." What else do you need to know? Some bus broke down in a neighborhood far away? Really? That's life and death reporting?
While you were up checking the radio station, did you turn on CNN or Fox? What were they doing? I'll tell you: They were running pre-recorded stuff from earlier in the evening. That's not local, but national. Even The Weather Channel goes into pre-record mode in overnight. What was local TV doing? They probably were in infomercials until 4AM. That's when everything goes live for morning drive.
Come on. Go to bed. Get some rest. Work is going to be called off any way. Take a break for once.
I'd be willing to bet that Art Bell isn't even up at 3 am anymore.
Up the Turnpike where I am in New York, we have TWO all-news stations, both sisters to KYW, that are live 24/7. Before any of you say "Philadelphia isn't New York," I'm well aware of that fact. But like NYC, Philly is a city where news can happen at any time. Heck, news happens around the world at any time.
I just checked the ratings and KYW is no. 2, even though they lost ground in the holiday book to WDAS-FM (thanks to WBEB's all-Xmas format doing monster numbers, just like WLTW here in the Apple). Being a strong number two should mean something, like the format isn't going to be dropped just because a few of the posters here feel it is antiquated.
Folks, this is a radio board. If you don't feel radio has anything to offer in today's environment, then perhaps you shouldn't be posting. End of rant.
I just checked the ratings and KYW is no. 2, even though they lost ground in the holiday book to WDAS-FM (thanks to WBEB's all-Xmas format doing monster numbers, just like WLTW here in the Apple). Being a strong number two should mean something, like the format isn't going to be dropped just because a few of the posters here feel it is antiquated.
Folks, this is a radio board. If you don't feel radio has anything to offer in today's environment, then perhaps you shouldn't be posting. End of rant.
Come on Rollo-Smokes, who made you king of the Radio Info discussion boards? Just because I feel that terrestrial radio is on the way out in the digital age because the folks running the industry DON'T HAVE A CLUE about the sociological and behavioral changes in media consumption of younger audiences, doesn't mean I can't post an opinion on this radio board.
And, by the way, nothing is more outdated than the term, "listen "2, 3, 4 times a day." KYW had a great 40 years plus run, but unless CBS Radio decides to evolve their audio communication business, they are going to fall way behind in the media consumption race by the end of this decade.
And, by the way, nothing is more outdated than the term, "listen "2, 3, 4 times a day." KYW had a great 40 years plus run, but unless CBS Radio decides to evolve their audio communication business, they are going to fall way behind in the media consumption race by the end of this decade.
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imhomerjay
Guest
A strong number two. Hmmm, seems like a better place to be than 12 or 22. Reality dictates that you focus resource where they can benefit you the most. That may not be at 3 a.m. Hat's not a sign of impending, immediate doom, it's a simple way of facing the world today, not as it used to be.
bsquared11 said:
Back to the subject, it's obvious that they DO have a clue. Because younger audiences are asleep at 3 in the morning.
By the way, there really isn't someone "running the industry," like some czar with a cigar. There are just people running their various and sundry square feet of the industry. Some are very involved in new media, and some aren't.
I
imhomerjay
Guest
But it's much more fun to create some phantom boogeyman to blame for some imagined slight, especially when you paint the imagined creature as oh-so-clueless in order to build yourself up by comparison. 
bsquared11 said:
Before you crown me, I'm just expressing my opinion. Same as you. And I get upset when I hear/read comments about how radio will be overtaken by new media.
The same was said in the 1950s when television came around. Everyone said radio was on its deathbed, but the medium adapted and survived. Even in this new media age, radio is adapting and embracing the changing landscape. For the most part, the industry is still making money and attracting audiences.
Now, I am aware younger people aren't listening as they once did. I blame the consolidation of the industry as the primary reason for that, not new technology. There are ways to change that, and it can be done. So I get very upset when I hear/read comments question radio's relevance today, especially when it comes from posters on a radio board.
I don't have a smartphone (nor do I want one) and I don't have internet access everywhere I go. But I do have a radio with me. Call me old-school, but I'm perfectly fine with that.
Rollo-Smokes said:
Rollo, forgive me for saying so, but you sound like one of those people who did not want to get a TV and wanted radio to continue to offer old-time radio dramas, sitcoms, soaps, quiz shows and variety shows. There were people 60 years ago making essentially the same argument you are now. Old school 1955. Old school 2011.
Do they teach philosophy in your old school? Ok, what is radio? Is it the technology ("rusty towers in the sky") or is is content? There will continue to be a need and a demand for audio content (music, voice) and better means have come along to distribute that content? The problem too many so-called "radio people" make is they are addicted to 100 year old technology. Put radio on the Internet and it's still radio. What you should be upset about it broadcasters are dragging their feet; others have taken the lead.
And in a way, radio did die when TV came along. Radio's content added a picture and moved over to TV. A new use was found for then 45 year old technology. Since then nobody's come up with a really new type of content but there is a new technology to get it to listeners.
By the way, KYW has one one true sister station in New York: 1010 WINS. The other is sort of a Brady Bunch type step-sister.
I
imhomerjay
Guest
A question is what "survival" looks like. Is it going to be the heady days of the pre-2000 (or 1996 or whatever benchmark you want to establish) era? No. Those days are gone, and not coming back, and all the "bring back live booming DJs, jingles and full service radio" rants aren't going to turn back that clock.
Consolidation isn't the cause. Listeners don't care, nor often even know, about ownership. Radio excelled at delivering music and news/information over the past few decades, but new technology created a whole new way for people to get that content. Running a station independently (or under some restrictive ownership limit) isn't going to make someone who values the ability to listen to precisely what they want at the very time they want it tune in. iPods and streaming options do what broadcasting as a technology cannot.
Yes, there will be a some portion of the pie left for "radio" (in the technical, not content) sense. But like any business, a smaller slice--and the realities of economics--must mean getting by with less and putting technololgy to work even if it displaces "live" people. It stinks for them, it may not be to everyone's tastes, but you can't expect to keep the lights on if you don't manage expenses in the face of shrinking revenues.
Consolidation isn't the cause. Listeners don't care, nor often even know, about ownership. Radio excelled at delivering music and news/information over the past few decades, but new technology created a whole new way for people to get that content. Running a station independently (or under some restrictive ownership limit) isn't going to make someone who values the ability to listen to precisely what they want at the very time they want it tune in. iPods and streaming options do what broadcasting as a technology cannot.
Yes, there will be a some portion of the pie left for "radio" (in the technical, not content) sense. But like any business, a smaller slice--and the realities of economics--must mean getting by with less and putting technololgy to work even if it displaces "live" people. It stinks for them, it may not be to everyone's tastes, but you can't expect to keep the lights on if you don't manage expenses in the face of shrinking revenues.
If you guys ever visit other places, you will find that it's rare for a town to have a full time news station like KYW. They don't have one in Houston. It's the one consistent complaint I read on these boards. Most stations combine news with talk, and only do local news in drive time. Not KYW. So to complain that KYW took a few hours off in the depths of the night so they could concentrate their resources on the morning rush just seems a little petty to me. Sort of like "gotcha" journalism. "We caught you taking a break!" So great, go collect your prize, and have a nice day. But in the meantime, KYW does a great job covering three states with limited resources, they work hard to keep their standards high, and provide a great local service.
TheBigA said:
Actually those that still do news blocks in either AM or PM drive are getting rarer. At one time, classical and jazz were viable FM formats. Now those (for various reasons) have been ceded to public radio. Extended news is likely to be next.
The few true "all news" stations have been established in the format in the largest markets for decades. Despite attempts to offer programming services for news stations (NBC, AP, CNN and now TRN) nobody has made a go of all news lately or in smaller markets. Yes, I know of some stations that called themselves "all news" despite syndicated talk shows, ballgames, old time radio, NASCAR and Infomercials for 50 per cent or more of their schedule. Shows how terminology gets abused: News/Talk stations call themselves "news stations" or "all news" and Talk stations call themselves "news/talk" (apparently on the theory that talk show hosts talk about subjects in the news).
The issue is not whether KYW or any other station is live at the moment. It's whether some warm body is monitoring what is happening and whether the information on the air is current and still accurate. If KYW is not willing to invest the resources in being a 24/7 news operation, maybe they should start running some talk shows. I have caught them getting lazy - obviously lazy. Like when they are running the exact same material on my way to work as I heard on my way home the day before. Like when power is out over much of my county and they are not saying anything about that. Don't tell people to tune in two, three, four times a day and not give them something new and different each time. And don't talk about how great the coverage is and miss something that affects a good number of people. That is what makes a station irrelevant.
Couple of thoughts on this:
KYW had recorded some overnight hours of news years ago, dumped the practice, and now has come back. Previously it would be between 2-4:30 a.m. on weekdays and between 2-5 a.m. on weekends.
When KYW's return to airing recorded news was covered in the general media, I was under the impression that the first segment of each half hour plus the traffic reports would be live.
I'm not usually up after midnight. A few weeks ago, I was in my car after midnight and I remember hearing the evening traffic reporter still on during the overnight. I thought that was strange, he must be working an incredibly long shift from 6 pm to whenever after midnight. Now it appears that those reports weren't even live?
So what I'm reading now is that entire hours of news are rebroadcast from midnight to 4:30 a.m. or 5 a.m.? Including the traffic reports? Nothing is live during those hours?
Just my opinion: When I read that much of the overnights would be recorded, but the first news segment and traffic reports would be live, I thought that was a smart move. Put more resources on the dayside.
But recorded traffic reports that are more than a few minutes old? I'd prefer that they just not bother rather than airing something that's anywhere from one to five hours old. Slap in some PSAs instead.
And remember, their outcue on traffic reports is "in the KYW 24-hour traffic center." If all you need to do is record a few traffic reports to be played for four to five hours, anyone could say they have a 24-hour traffic center.
KYW had recorded some overnight hours of news years ago, dumped the practice, and now has come back. Previously it would be between 2-4:30 a.m. on weekdays and between 2-5 a.m. on weekends.
When KYW's return to airing recorded news was covered in the general media, I was under the impression that the first segment of each half hour plus the traffic reports would be live.
I'm not usually up after midnight. A few weeks ago, I was in my car after midnight and I remember hearing the evening traffic reporter still on during the overnight. I thought that was strange, he must be working an incredibly long shift from 6 pm to whenever after midnight. Now it appears that those reports weren't even live?
So what I'm reading now is that entire hours of news are rebroadcast from midnight to 4:30 a.m. or 5 a.m.? Including the traffic reports? Nothing is live during those hours?
Just my opinion: When I read that much of the overnights would be recorded, but the first news segment and traffic reports would be live, I thought that was a smart move. Put more resources on the dayside.
But recorded traffic reports that are more than a few minutes old? I'd prefer that they just not bother rather than airing something that's anywhere from one to five hours old. Slap in some PSAs instead.
And remember, their outcue on traffic reports is "in the KYW 24-hour traffic center." If all you need to do is record a few traffic reports to be played for four to five hours, anyone could say they have a 24-hour traffic center.
KYW 1060 sucks.. 1010 wins in new York is so much better live 24/7 they even have someone live from AccuWeather overnight.. So much better then 1060. I live in Bucks county & I listen to 1010 overnight on my smart phone so I can hear Live news. It may not be Local news for me but its live so much then recorded stuff on 1060 & much better then that Program they run overnights on the weekend on 1060 that sucks big time..
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