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Sorry, I certainly didn't mean to imply that I thought Jay F was being racist.
But I would consider redneck to be a derogatory term. Hip hop songs and artists use all kinds of words as endearments to each other that most people outside of that culture would consider impolite language.
I also think the stereotype that most country listeners are "rednecks" or live a "redneck" lifestyle is just wrong.
But I would consider redneck to be a derogatory term. Hip hop songs and artists use all kinds of words as endearments to each other that most people outside of that culture would consider impolite language.
I also think the stereotype that most country listeners are "rednecks" or live a "redneck" lifestyle is just wrong.
Most country listeners aren't rednecks, but most rednecks love country music. Once again, the term isn't negative in the world of country music. Is Gretchen Wilson ashamed of being a redneck in her huge hit "Redneck Woman". Hell no, she is PROUD to be a redneck!.
Let's forget that word for a minute. My point was that even if LA , the IE, and Oxnard/Ventura have similar Hispanic percentages, there is a far lower % of country life group listeners in LA. No matter how good a country station is in LA, itwill NEVER get the numbers KFRG and KHAY get in their smaller, more country markets.
Let's forget that word for a minute. My point was that even if LA , the IE, and Oxnard/Ventura have similar Hispanic percentages, there is a far lower % of country life group listeners in LA. No matter how good a country station is in LA, itwill NEVER get the numbers KFRG and KHAY get in their smaller, more country markets.
semoochie said:
WOW, going back 30 years...I don't know about KLAC's ratings then but I do recall a lot of stations (mind you, this was on AM since FM had classical, beautiful, AOR, etc.) played a variety of both pop and country hits on the same outlet. I seem to remember listening to KWIZ-Am and you'd hear a pop hit then a country hit would come on but it was just accepted back then as just hits. It seemed less specialized but KLAC was the place for pure country that's for sure.
semoochie said:
In 1975, KLAC was, even then, a mid-range station, not a top one. This was the era of 8 and 10 shares for KABC, and big numbers for KMPC and such, as well as the FMs like KJOI and such. KALC was barely top 10. KWKW routinely beat it.
Back then, LA was barely 15% Hispanic, and the ratio of "Others" to Hispanic and Black was much higher... close to 70%. Today, it is UNDER 30%. The market has grown, but the non-Hispanic white population has not, and many of them have moved out... precisely the ones that like country.
1977 was the first year when FM achieved parity with AM in shares. After than, what was on AM became increasingly irrelevant.
I have nothing but respect for David, but his last post is simply wrong.
KABC's best book was the Spring 79 book where they got an 8.9. They were never a 10 share station.
Please tell me what book in the 1970s that KWKW beat KLAC?
Fall 79, KLAC had a 4.3, they were #5 in L.A. only behind KBIG, KABC, KMET, and KJOI
Other good books for KLAC:
Fall 80, KLAC had a 3.7, #7
Spring 80, KLAC had a 3.8, #8
Fall 78, KLAC had a 3.9, #7
Spring 77, KLAC had a 3.1, #9
Spring 76, KLAC had a3.7, #7
In every book from 1977 to 1980, 5 of the top 10 stations are AM. I would hardly call that irrelevant.
KABC, KFWB, KNX and either KRLA, KDAY or KLAC were in the top 10 during those years.
KABC's best book was the Spring 79 book where they got an 8.9. They were never a 10 share station.
Please tell me what book in the 1970s that KWKW beat KLAC?
Fall 79, KLAC had a 4.3, they were #5 in L.A. only behind KBIG, KABC, KMET, and KJOI
Other good books for KLAC:
Fall 80, KLAC had a 3.7, #7
Spring 80, KLAC had a 3.8, #8
Fall 78, KLAC had a 3.9, #7
Spring 77, KLAC had a 3.1, #9
Spring 76, KLAC had a3.7, #7
In every book from 1977 to 1980, 5 of the top 10 stations are AM. I would hardly call that irrelevant.
KABC, KFWB, KNX and either KRLA, KDAY or KLAC were in the top 10 during those years.
Z
zumahans
Guest
Isn't that data proprietary?
I have nothing but respect for David, but his last post is simply wrong.
---- >>> Check again. I am fairly adament about the uselessness of 12+ numbers (if they give them away for free, that is what they are worth)
KABC's best book was the Spring 79 book where they got an 8.9. They were never a 10 share station.
---->>>> Been drinking at the 12+ fountain again, right? Just kidding... but in 25-54, they had many double digit books.
Please tell me what book in the 1970s that KWKW beat KLAC?
---- >>>> KW and KALI beat it in 18-49 and 25-54 in the 1972-1975 period.
Fall 79, KLAC had a 4.3, they were #5 in L.A. only behind KBIG, KABC, KMET, and KJOI
---- >>>> My impression, although I am away from my reference materials, is that much of that was pretty old.
Other good books for KLAC:
Fall 80, KLAC had a 3.7, #7
Spring 80, KLAC had a 3.8, #8
Fall 78, KLAC had a 3.9, #7
Spring 77, KLAC had a 3.1, #9
Spring 76, KLAC had a3.7, #7
---- >>>> Do you have the sales demos? As I said, I may be wrong, but when I was working in LA in sales demos we beat KLAC and I recall they skewed older at the time.
In every book from 1977 to 1980, 5 of the top 10 stations are AM. I would hardly call that irrelevant.
KABC, KFWB, KNX and either KRLA, KDAY or KLAC were in the top 10 during those years.
----- >>>> As I said, from 1977 on, 50% or more of the listening was on FM, and growing. In any case, I may be quite wrong on this or simply remem ber only the sales demos... but there was a much bigger potential for countrry then as the market was only about 30% or less ethnic then, vs. 72% today.
---- >>> Check again. I am fairly adament about the uselessness of 12+ numbers (if they give them away for free, that is what they are worth)
KABC's best book was the Spring 79 book where they got an 8.9. They were never a 10 share station.
---->>>> Been drinking at the 12+ fountain again, right? Just kidding... but in 25-54, they had many double digit books.
Please tell me what book in the 1970s that KWKW beat KLAC?
---- >>>> KW and KALI beat it in 18-49 and 25-54 in the 1972-1975 period.
Fall 79, KLAC had a 4.3, they were #5 in L.A. only behind KBIG, KABC, KMET, and KJOI
---- >>>> My impression, although I am away from my reference materials, is that much of that was pretty old.
Other good books for KLAC:
Fall 80, KLAC had a 3.7, #7
Spring 80, KLAC had a 3.8, #8
Fall 78, KLAC had a 3.9, #7
Spring 77, KLAC had a 3.1, #9
Spring 76, KLAC had a3.7, #7
---- >>>> Do you have the sales demos? As I said, I may be wrong, but when I was working in LA in sales demos we beat KLAC and I recall they skewed older at the time.
In every book from 1977 to 1980, 5 of the top 10 stations are AM. I would hardly call that irrelevant.
KABC, KFWB, KNX and either KRLA, KDAY or KLAC were in the top 10 during those years.
----- >>>> As I said, from 1977 on, 50% or more of the listening was on FM, and growing. In any case, I may be quite wrong on this or simply remem ber only the sales demos... but there was a much bigger potential for countrry then as the market was only about 30% or less ethnic then, vs. 72% today.
D
doublecashkgb
Guest
David you spin like a politican. You start by making a mistatement or distortion, and then
you later attempt to qualify it. Its always something which favors a Hispanic station
BTW. Once your caught in the distortion, own up to it, be a big boy. KMZT isn't
a major signal, KLAC had medcore ratings, the distortions, half-truths and outright
slanted, perspective from David Gleason keep on coming.
you later attempt to qualify it. Its always something which favors a Hispanic station
BTW. Once your caught in the distortion, own up to it, be a big boy. KMZT isn't
a major signal, KLAC had medcore ratings, the distortions, half-truths and outright
slanted, perspective from David Gleason keep on coming.
;D ;D ;D ;Ddoublecashkgb said:
What ONE admission of a mistake by Senor Gleason in 8,000+ posts isn't GOOD enough for you???
HAHAHAHAHAHA
BTW thanks I've enjoyed reading your responses, kgb!
D
dr.akbar
Guest
..but there was a much bigger potential for countrry then as the market was only about 30% or less ethnic then, vs. 72% today.
YES..that is the whole enchilada! That's why the highest and best use of a Mt Wilson FM is NOT country. That 72% will be probably be 80% by the end of the decade. Nurse Jeff and I are still surprised it took the Emmis Brain Trust that long to figure all of this out!
YES..that is the whole enchilada! That's why the highest and best use of a Mt Wilson FM is NOT country. That 72% will be probably be 80% by the end of the decade. Nurse Jeff and I are still surprised it took the Emmis Brain Trust that long to figure all of this out!
V
VegasJack
Guest
All that is needed is a good Country PD and Morning show! Ethnicity is high in San Bernardino and it doesn't stop KFRG, or KHAY in Ventura, and many other Hot Country Markets! Using Ethnicity as an excuse is a bunch of BS! Jack fm in L.A. is one of thee top rated 25-54 caucasian formats in L.A.! Country could and should do the same thing! Especially with a Million cume! So, the ethnic makeup of the market has little to do with it!
KZLA was thee worst programmed Country station in the nation! Many in the Country Radio and Music industry have said the same thing for years!
KZLA was thee worst programmed Country station in the nation! Many in the Country Radio and Music industry have said the same thing for years!
B
bopman
Guest
Someone will start country again in L.A. within 12 months... As many have noted on some of the other topics... Get a lot of artist support from the ACM and CMA... Lots of marketing... Don't be record-label whores, and have good personalities...
It will never be a Top 5 station, maybe could be top 10.
It will never be a Top 5 station, maybe could be top 10.
VegasJack said:
LA is 72% ethnic or recent Russian, Persian, Arab immigrant. Asians, Blacks and Hispanics don't constitute good targets, no do these large immigrant groups. So ethnicity is very much an issue in LA, as it means that about 3 out of every 4 residents is not a candidate for listening.
This is why KZLA got only 500,000 cume. Not a million. Did I say it did not get a million? It didn't. The highest it got was just over 600,000... and that was before the population updates of the last several years.
San Bernardino is less than 50% ethnic, as is Ventura. And both are more blue collar communities insofar as the non-Hispanic white population is concerned, and index better on country listeners.
By the way, KCBS-FM is the #1 non-Spanish 25-54 station, and has been for 4 or 5 books. It is 20% Hispanic in compositon, so it is hardly an exclusively "other" station. By the way, 20% pretty much matches the percentage of LA that is English dominant Hisapnic, too. So Jack does just as well with Hisapnics as with non-Hispanic whites. Keep in mind that 4 of the 5 top 25-54's in LA are Spanish, which should be a clue about how truly ethnic the market is. Three of the five are under one owner, too.
It is ALL about ethnic makeup and the lack of country listeners among the relatively few non-Hispanic whites.
V
VegasJack
Guest
The Country world....Radio, the Country music industry and the Country Artists have known for years that KZLA was thee worst sounding Country station in the nation. It was a Country station trying not to be Country. A PD that did not live and breath the lifestyle but only enjoyed the politics. He was more interested in being on the Academy, CRS or CMA Board than programming a great Country station for Southern California! His consultants we're a 2000 miles away and out of touch with the LA Market! He made bad decision, after bad decision, year after year, he moved air staff from one shift to another constantly. KHAY, KFRG and KIK FM consistently beat KZLA over and over again. What a great waste of a Country station for 22 years!
What a damn shame!
Buck is turning over in his grave!
What a damn shame!
Buck is turning over in his grave!
Vegas Jack: would you please explain "live the lifestyle"?
I've been doing country in Nashville since 1990...and here
at least...it doesn't exist. You don't have to dumb down to
the Hee Haw crowd: while they do exist, they can't help you.
A country station has to be mass-appeal. KZLA ran out of audience.
If Nashville has upscale country listeners...so does LA...just not enough
anymore. BTW...I don't know RJ...never met him...but your cheap
shots speak volumes.
I'm at WSIX...where are you?
I've been doing country in Nashville since 1990...and here
at least...it doesn't exist. You don't have to dumb down to
the Hee Haw crowd: while they do exist, they can't help you.
A country station has to be mass-appeal. KZLA ran out of audience.
If Nashville has upscale country listeners...so does LA...just not enough
anymore. BTW...I don't know RJ...never met him...but your cheap
shots speak volumes.
I'm at WSIX...where are you?
Z
zumahans
Guest
SuperRadioFan said:
I was damn proud to pry that one out of him, too.
Someone will start country again in L.A. within 12 months... As many have noted on some of the other topics... Get a lot of artist support from the ACM and CMA... Lots of marketing... Don't be record-label whores, and have good personalities...
It will never be a Top 5 station, maybe could be top 10.
We said the SAME thing 4 years ago here in NYC! And it hasn't happened YET.
It will never be a Top 5 station, maybe could be top 10.
We said the SAME thing 4 years ago here in NYC! And it hasn't happened YET.
ks31 said:
Looking at other areas like Portland and Las Vegas and Seattle, one can expect 4 to 8 country shares of non-ethnic listeners. A 4 share of the 28% of LA that is non-ethnic would be a 1.0, and an 8 would be a 2 share overall. A 2 share gets you about 16th to 20th or so in the market. It also is toolow to generate revenues.
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