LA April Ratings - KFI Is Back to #1!

[TheBigA]

What's wrong with keeping history? A station that's nearly a half century old should be proud of its legacy and roots. They all but abandoned it.

No, they retired it.

But no matter what I post here, you'll never agree.

You want a business to be a museum. They can't do that. Especially when the listeners don't subscribe to the station.

I have worked with radio stations that are also institutions. But their listeners are also members and subscribers who devote a portion of their income to keeping the station alive. That's not the case at KRTH.

 

[davideduardo]

I grew up listening to KHJ - BOSS Radio - back when you felt that a DJ was your friend - now its just a different animal and what used to bring me comfort is no longer there ... Yes I am aging myself - but I have always been a long time and loyal listener - it is what it is

If you listened to Boss Radio that meant you listened in the last half of the 60's. Which probably means you are around 70, give or take.

For a variety of reasons that are their own separate subject, no radio station wants or needs people over 55 in the audience. Those listeners, as many as there might be, produce no revenue because advertisers do not want older consumers.

Fortunately you have alternatives if you don't care for current radio formats or delivery styles. Some are paid, some are free but they are there.

 

[davideduardo]

What's wrong with keeping history? A station that's nearly a half century old should be proud of its legacy and roots. They all but abandoned it.

I will give you one example:

Some years back KLVE, then the #1 station in LA, wanted to do a 25th anniversary concert. I did a quick survey with our call center. We asked one group about an "Anniversary Concert" with (rotating names of 3 of the 6 artists) and another group about a "25th Anniversary Concert" with (names of 3 out of 6 as well). The artists were rotated so there would be no unintentional bias from the artist selections.

The base question was, "is this a concert for people my age, younger or older".

Over 25% of the people said the "25th anniversary" was for older people. None of them said the simple "anniversary" was for older people.

"Old" is a Buick. We don't want to be perceived as radio Buicks. Or Pontiacs. Or Oldsmobiles.

But they should have done it with ties to their golden days. Nothing wrong with a set of 80's songs intermingled with updated, but classic jingles. Keeping many of the older jocks, with much respect to those that passed, would have worked too, adding a classic style with newer music. You never want to get rid of your senior staff, they are great assets to have on a team.

The old jingles sound like old radio. They sound dated, old, stale.

I had a station that was #1 for 25 years while I was there. We had, internally, four annual calendar months where the focus on programming had a toilet as a symbol. That was when we found elements in the format that needed flushing. We understood that part of the format was always being fresh... so things that were working were changed before they got old.

We did not run a museum. We did not dredge up the past. We celebrated the current day without looking back. We had double the #2 station's numbers, and it was in a top 15 market.

Stop dredging up the past.

 

[michael hagerty]

What's wrong with keeping history? A station that's nearly a half century old should be proud of its legacy and roots. They all but abandoned it.

Oldies76: No, they drove it till the wheels fell off. They now have a very successful radio station for adults in their 40s TODAY. People who were in diapers or embryonic stage when Bob Hamilton programmed KRTH.

Look, I get it. I'd like to punch 710 on my car radio the next time I'm in L.A. and hear Geoff Edwards, Gary Owens, Roger Carroll and Johnny Magnus. Ain't gonna happen. That's what airchecks are for.

Applying your logic, we never would have had Boss Radio. KHJ would have "respected its heritage" and carried block programming from the Mutual network from the 1930s onward.

 

[oldies76]

Oldies76: No, they drove it till the wheels fell off. They now have a very successful radio station for adults in their 40s TODAY. People who were in diapers or embryonic stage when Bob Hamilton programmed KRTH.

Look, I get it. I'd like to punch 710 on my car radio the next time I'm in L.A. and hear Geoff Edwards, Gary Owens, Roger Carroll and Johnny Magnus. Ain't gonna happen. That's what airchecks are for.

Applying your logic, we never would have had Boss Radio. KHJ would have "respected its heritage" and carried block programming from the Mutual network from the 1930s onward.

Thanks for the insight, but NBC still uses the Peacock logo, since 1956 and solidly since 1979 and Dodger Stadium's architecture is still 1962 and people love it today. And they still use an organ. Oh, and the Pantry still uses chalkboards for their tasty menus.

Where there's a will, there's a way.....

 

[davideduardo]

Thanks for the insight, but NBC still uses the Peacock logo, since 1956 and solidly since 1979 and Dodger Stadium's architecture is still 1962 and people love it today. And they still use an organ. Oh, and the Pantry still uses chalkboards for their tasty menus.

Where there's a will, there's a way.....

But KRTH's audience is always 35-54, meaning that since the station began with that identity the original listener core has been replaced two full times.

The shows on NBC are not the same. The players on the Dodgers lineup are not the same.

 

[michael hagerty]

But KRTH's audience is always 35-54, meaning that since the station began with that identity the original listener core has been replaced two full times.

The shows on NBC are not the same. The players on the Dodgers lineup are not the same.

Hell, the peacock isn’t the same. It’s been streamlined and modernized.

Like, y’know, KRTH:


http://blog.logomyway.com/nbc-logo-history-behind/

 

[oldies76]

Hell, the peacock isn’t the same. It’s been streamlined and modernized.

Like, y’know, KRTH:

Right........the Mann jingles can be modernized too...... same thing.

 

[davideduardo]

Right........the Mann jingles can be modernized too...... same thing.

Jingles are so old school today... many stations stopped using them decades ago.

I'm reminded of when Bill Tanner took over Y-100 and made it, in my opinion, the best CHR of the 70's. No jingles. They were often crutches, and the best example were the Michael Joseph stations that would sometimes do two jingles in one song transition.

I had a station in that era in San Juan that competed, albeit indirectly, with Joseph-consulted WKAQ-FM. I did no jingles. I used listeners saying the station name... solo, duos, groups, even with mistakes. Never repeated one of them. Mike got a 5 share, and I had a book over 40.

Was it the jingles or lack? No. But all those things that looked like trying to swim against the current made the station new and fresh. We never did a technique for more than 6 months, either.

 

[TheBigA]

Right........the Mann jingles can be modernized too...... same thing.

Not without removing what made them distinctive. And when you place that 60s sound next to 80s music, it becomes a trainwreck.

Just not the sound or the audience they're going for anymore. The sound fit the music and the style AT THE TIME.

Plus, it's very possible the jingle company owns the melody, not the station. When you buy jingles, you only buy limited rights.

 

[gr8oldies]

Jingles were gone on CHR by the late 70s for the most part, with a couple of resurgences.

Not without removing what made them distinctive. And when you place that 60s sound next to 80s music, it becomes a trainwreck.

Just not the sound or the audience they're going for anymore. The sound fit the music and the style AT THE TIME.

Plus, it's very possible the jingle company owns the melody, not the station. When you buy jingles, you only buy limited rights.

 

[radio128]

I'm reminded of when Bill Tanner took over Y-100 and made it, in my opinion, the best CHR of the 70's. No jingles. They were often crutches, and the best example were the Michael Joseph stations that would sometimes do two jingles in one song transition.
Speaking of Miami, WMYQ used the shotgun jingle, but I don't recall the station using any jingles when they became 96X. Also WQAM had a very short one that went "Q56". They only used that one about once every half hour. Mostly it was listeners saying stuff like "QAM plays the best music."

 

[michael hagerty]

Right........the Mann jingles can be modernized too...... same thing.

If you compare the original NBC peacock (12 seconds at the beginning of every color broadcast with an announcer saying "The following broadcast is brought to you in Living Color on NBC"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrHWmUpZFyI

...to today's (two seconds, static with chimes), that's on par with what KRTH has done...gone from fanfares and Charlie Van Dyke's "From the entertainment capital of the world...." to a voice saying "KRTH, Los Angeles" and listener voices saying "K-EARTH 101".

Dude, it's FINE to miss the old K-EARTH. But that doesn't mean people who weren't born yet want the same experience you had. I'm older than you and I am totally over having call letters sung to me.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

If you compare the original NBC peacock (12 seconds at the beginning of every color broadcast with an announcer saying "The following broadcast is brought to you in Living Color on NBC"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrHWmUpZFyI

...to today's (two seconds, static with chimes), that's on par with what KRTH has done...gone from fanfares and Charlie Van Dyke's "From the entertainment capital of the world...." to a voice saying "KRTH, Los Angeles" and listener voices saying "K-EARTH 101".

Dude, it's FINE to miss the old K-EARTH. But that doesn't mean people who weren't born yet want the same experience you had. I'm older than you and I am totally over having call letters sung to me.

I don't disagree with anything you, Big A and David E have been saying throughout the thread. Nothing stays the same, and in the big picture of things, why should it? Progress is always moving forward.

Yet at the same time I absolutely understand where Oldies is coming from. Part of the fanfares and the BIG sounds of the old stations made it feel like it was something bigger than it really was - like what you were listening to was not just fun but IMPORTANT. I am amazed these days at how little radio stations do to differentiate themselves to one another. Pick any format, if there is more than one station in town is carrying it, you can bet they still all pretty much sound alike, and the importance of listening to this particular station has been minimized. You guys may call it progress, but the vanillaization and no-funization of radio continues on.

In short, you guys are right: progress demands change, but he is also right: the changes you have made pretty much suck.

 

[michael hagerty]

I don't disagree with anything you, Big A and David E have been saying throughout the thread. Nothing stays the same, and in the big picture of things, why should it? Progress is always moving forward.

Yet at the same time I absolutely understand where Oldies is coming from. Part of the fanfares and the BIG sounds of the old stations made it feel like it was something bigger than it really was - like what you were listening to was not just fun but IMPORTANT. I am amazed these days at how little radio stations do to differentiate themselves to one another. Pick any format, if there is more than one station in town is carrying it, you can bet they still all pretty much sound alike, and the importance of listening to this particular station has been minimized. You guys may call it progress, but the vanillaization and no-funization of radio continues on.

In short, you guys are right: progress demands change, but he is also right: the changes you have made pretty much suck.

And ChannelFlipper, I can't argue with that, except that the fanfares and BIG sounds were a way of communicating with our generation, for whom the 20th Century Fox fanfare at the beginning of a movie was a big deal.

I just don't think it's a thing for people under 40, maybe 50. There's no cultural point of reference. and saturated with images and audio from pretty much birth (someone who's 39 now was 10 when MTV launched), nothing's all that special. It's about meeting expectations, not knocking them on their butts, because, really---what could?

 

[TheBigA]

In short, you guys are right: progress demands change, but he is also right: the changes you have made pretty much suck.

It sucks to you. It doesn't suck enough to keep the station from being one of the most listened-to stations in town. That's all that matters.

As I said in another thread, ANYONE is welcome to do their own thing with their own money. You can buy one for less than a house in Glendale. The catch is getting the wife to put up with it.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

(someone who's 39 now was 10 when MTV launched)

I think you made a typo there. Someone who's 49 now was 10 when MTV launched.

I am amazed these days at how little radio stations do to differentiate themselves to one another. Pick any format, if there is more than one station in town is carrying it, you can bet they still all pretty much sound alike, and the importance of listening to this particular station has been minimized. You guys may call it progress, but the vanillaization and no-funization of radio continues on.

I don't really think it's that different from 40 years ago. It's just that back then it was reverb and hitting the post to attract an audience, and today it's massaging the music log just so to attract an audience.

I refuse to believe that the radio operators of today are refusing to spend $10,000 on jingles, if it would bring in $20,000 in revenue.

 

[michael hagerty]

I think you made a typo there. Someone who's 49 now was 10 when MTV launched.

Actually I meant the 39. The “10” should have been “1”.

 

[TheBigA]

I refuse to believe that the radio operators of today are refusing to spend $10,000 on jingles, if it would bring in $20,000 in revenue.

You're pretty close to a typical jingle budget. Contrary to what some others here are saying, I don't agree that jingles are gone from radio. To prove my point, there are several major jingle houses around the country that continue the tradition. But they've also added lots of others sounds and effects to make their jingles more exciting. And they not only create jingles and original music for radio, but you actually will hear them if you pay attention to a lot of the TV shows you watch.

 

[oldies76]

It sucks to you. It doesn't suck enough to keep the station from being one of the most listened-to stations in town. That's all that matters.

No Big A, it sucks!! You think we're the only ones who enjoyed big radio 25-45 years ago?? There are millions of people who reminisce about the great times on radio, what they heard, how they heard it, their favorite songs, their favorite specials, and the jocks that had the personal aspect along the way. I don't see that today, except maybe in some small areas.

As I said about 137 times now, radio needs to return to its glory days to accommodate the new demos they are after. Having a listener voted holiday Top 500 with today's classic hits can be done (and WCBS has taken it upon their part to try this again). Taking requests and playing them can be done. Having jocks that listen to their audience can be done. The list is endless. In other words, radio should be for the PEOPLE.

As Princess Leia once exclaimed, "If money is all that you love, that's what you'll receive!"