LABOR DAY WEEKEND 2009 - RADIO'S SPECIAL PROGRAMMING

[Silkie]

Twice as nice with one to spare - or, as Dick Bartley might call it, a "bonus extra".

 

[oldies76]

Kudos to CBS-FM. The Labor Day countdown is indeed "for real."
#204 - Beautiful Sunday - Daniel Boone
#192 - Mandy by Barry Manilow
#185 - A Summer Place by Percy Faith
#183 - Come Go With Me - Del Vikings
#181 - Can't Find The Time - Orpheus
No market researched countdown would have those tunes! Listeners win again. Consultants LOSE!

He's right David...absolutely right. The "Theme from Summer Place" by Percy Faith on CBS-FM or even "Mandy"? Once again this proves that it's not just all about listener "tested" snippets....it's all about the MUSIC period!!! Awesome that pre-64's are played ONCE AGAIN on a major market station or the so-called "stiffs" as you call them. YOU think they should never, ever be played again...because they aren't familiar with today's crowd...well guess what, the truth has spoken....again!!

 

[oldies76]

Yes, kudos to WCBS ...just checking the KRTH countdown, it looks very similiar to the Memorial Day Countdown, with the songs in somewhat similiar positions (give or take a few spots). So KRTH's does not look "real" at all, just a similiar re-run. So much for creativity.

 

[davideduardo]

Dude, you have no idea what you are talking about. The pre-65 songs are just a sliver, and mostly confined to weekends.

That's not true. MediaBase shows plays by daypart, and the severe decline in 25-54 rank is no doubt due to playing music that is totally irrelevant in weekday dayparts to persons under 55.

The BIG change at K-Earth is adding 80s. LOTS of 80s.

It's been playing 80's since Jhani Kaye redefined the station from oldies to classic hits, but he's backsliding now. And it shows, quite horribly.

 

[oldies76]

It's been playing 80's since Jhani Kaye redefined the station from oldies to classic hits, but he's backsliding now. And it shows, quite horribly.

That's not so true, Kaye took over in '05 and very, very few 80's were played then. Just recently are more 80's being added to the rotation for a better mix of classic hits. But he is also adding in some 60's again, for the overall feel of an oldies / Classic hits station, something that CBS-FM does already.

 

[davideduardo]

He's right David...absolutely right. The "Theme from Summer Place" by Percy Faith on CBS-FM or even "Mandy"?

Mandy, at least is 70's.

"Theme from a Summer Place" was one of those songs Top 40 played because, even into the early 60's, stations could not decide if they were all rock 'n roll or part MOR... and every teen despised the Faith tune... meaning unless you are 70 and over or a freak of nature, you can't relate to that song or hate it.

Once again this proves that it's not just all about listener "tested" snippets....

You are saying that letting listeners pick the music they want to hear now is wrong? You've got to be kidding! Who else should pick it? The guy who tabulated the "fake" charts from the 60's and 70's?

By the way, in the most advanced testing procedures, the listener can hear nearly the whole song if they want (I exaggerage... but they have about 60 seconds of it in individually paced tests, whether in person or on the web) and they essentially never go over 6 or 7 seconds of the song before voting, and typically vote in the 4th to 5th second. They know the songs, and they know the ones they don't want to hear, too.

it's all about the MUSIC period!!! Awesome that pre-64's are played ONCE AGAIN on a major market station

Awesome is going to be the loss of 25-54. And that means millions... maybe tens of millions in revenue. It means, in all probability, that if this is not stopped, the same fate will befall CBS FM and KRTH as happened to the oldies / classic hits mish mash in DC...

or the so-called "stiffs" as you call them.

A stiff is a song that listeners say they don't want to hear in a huge proportion. A stiff is not an old song or a new one or a medium one. It's a song that is voted down. Try to get your terms right.

YOU think they should never, ever be played again...because they aren't familiar with today's crowd...

If you want a station that has declining revenue and is doomed to disappear, keep on playing songs that folks under 55 don't care about.

well guess what, the truth has spoken....again!!

The truth is seen in the fall of 7 to 8 positions in 25-54 rank by KRTH in LA since they started playing the songs that under-55's don't want to hear. I can hear the sellers and management screeching all the way to Dallas.

 

[davideduardo]

That's not so true, Kaye took over in '05 and very, very few 80's were played then.

Once he did the research and developed his strategy, the 70's were increased, and then the early 80's. Changes like that are introduced very slowly, not from one day to the next. Oh, and MediaBase subscribers can go back to '05 (and before) and see the real facts.

Just recently are more 80's being added to the rotation for a better mix of classic hits. But he is also adding in some 60's again, for the overall feel of an oldies / Classic hits station,

"Oldies" is a format, and "classic hits" is a different one. Moving backwards has punished KRTH terribly. Hopefully, whatever strange idea they got over there will be purged as the ratings get worse, and they will quit playing those tired geezer songs.

 

[oldies76]

"Theme from a Summer Place" ...... and every teen despised the Faith tune... meaning unless you are 70 and over or a freak of nature, you can't relate to that song or hate it.

I'm neither, but it's still a nice instrumental to listen to once in a while....And the fact that it's in the countdown and supposedly listener voted, it shows at least some folks still enjoy it, even nearly 50 years after it's release.

You are saying that letting listeners pick the music they want to hear now is wrong? You've got to be kidding! Who else should pick it? The guy who tabulated the "fake" charts from the 60's and 70's?

I'm saying that besides these listener picked songs (tests), there should be other songs that the other part of the listening audience wouldn't mind hearing either, even if it's just held to weekends, like this Top 500 on WCBS.
In other words, go ahead and play the tested songs (just not so repetitive), but do other things that can make your station sound entertaining and fun and make it "all about the music". You've got over 50 years of hits to choose from.

 

[oldies76]

Awesome is going to be the loss of 25-54. And that means millions... maybe tens of millions in revenue. It means, in all probability, that if this is not stopped, the same fate will befall CBS FM and KRTH as happened to the oldies / classic hits mish mash in DC...

It's got to be working, otherwise why would a major market station risk losing it??

 

[scooty430]

Dude, you have no idea what you are talking about. The pre-65 songs are just a sliver, and mostly confined to weekends.

That's not true. MediaBase shows plays by daypart, and the severe decline in 25-54 rank is no doubt due to playing music that is totally irrelevant in weekday dayparts to persons under 55.

The BIG change at K-Earth is adding 80s. LOTS of 80s.

It's been playing 80's since Jhani Kaye redefined the station from oldies to classic hits, but he's backsliding now. And it shows, quite horribly.

Wrong again. I really think that you are not even listening to K-Earth. You couldn't be if you are making the above statements.

Jhani Kaye added late SEVENTIES when he came on board. Things like Abba and the disco Bee Gees. There was a smattering of very early 80s, for instance Hall and Oates, but very little.

It is only in the last month or two that he has gone deep into the late 80's, and he is definitely NOT backsliding on it. Another Day In Paradise, Cyndi Lauper, Duran Duran, Chaka Khan (complete with rap), even Black or White, which is a 90s song. This is a big departure for K-Earth, enough for my non-radio geek friends to have even noticed.

 

[scooty430]

A Summer Place is wonderful kitsch, almost the definitive elevator song. You would be surprised how many people in their 20s are into things like MOR, the Carpenters, etc.

Things also change with age. There is plenty of music I hated as a kid, that I now enjoy. (And vice versa...)

Your approach to radio is like a bookstore that only sells the Top 10 Bestsellers. What a terrible bookstore that would be, right? If you ran Amazon, there wouldn't be millions of titles, there would be 10, and they'd all be geared to women aged 25-39.

 

[davideduardo]

Awesome is going to be the loss of 25-54. And that means millions... maybe tens of millions in revenue. It means, in all probability, that if this is not stopped, the same fate will befall CBS FM and KRTH as happened to the oldies / classic hits mish mash in DC...

It's got to be working, otherwise why would a major market station risk losing it??

The station is down about 8 rank positions in 25 to 54, the only thing that matters in sales... the backsliding in bringing back the pre-65 stuff is killing them.

 

[scooty430]

Awesome is going to be the loss of 25-54. And that means millions... maybe tens of millions in revenue. It means, in all probability, that if this is not stopped, the same fate will befall CBS FM and KRTH as happened to the oldies / classic hits mish mash in DC...

It's got to be working, otherwise why would a major market station risk losing it??

The station is down about 8 rank positions in 25 to 54, the only thing that matters in sales... the backsliding in bringing back the pre-65 stuff is killing them.

So let me get this straight: they add about 40 percent mid/late 1980s music, (suddenly, not slowly) and 10 percent pre-64 music, (only on weekends) and you blame an (alleged) fall in ratings ALL on the pre-64? Sorry, my friend, but that makes zero sense.

 

[davideduardo]

Wrong again. I really think that you are not even listening to K-Earth. You couldn't be if you are making the above statements.

It's unlistenable again. It got very usable for a while, as the 50's stuff got killed, but the excessive 80's and the readdition of the 60's stuff made it too broad and to unappealing to the under-55 audiences.

Jhani Kaye added late SEVENTIES when he came on board. Things like Abba and the disco Bee Gees. There was a smattering of very early 80s, for instance Hall and Oates, but very little.

As I said, he transitioned skillfully and slowly over the first several years. Then for some reason, it started to fall apart, and it shows in the numbers. Huge 55+, but a declining 25-54 rank. And, again, for sales, those 55+ are pretty much useless.

It is only in the last month or two that he has gone deep into the late 80's, and he is definitely NOT backsliding on it.

he is backsliding on the sixties, and whatever the reason, he has lost 25-54 from the nice peak before Christmas season last year, and he's out of the top 10 stations in that demo...

 

[scooty430]

DE: You are saying that letting listeners pick the music they want to hear now is wrong? You've got to be kidding! Who else should pick it? The guy who tabulated the "fake" charts from the 60's and 70's?

Actually, the CBS-FM countdown is tabulated, completely, from listener votes. That is why it has so many quirky and delightful choices. It is exactly what real live humans asked for. Why don't you just tune in and enjoy it like everyone else in NY and around the world.

 

[davideduardo]

So let me get this straight: they add about 40 percent mid/late 1980s music, (suddenly, not slowly) and 10 percent pre-64 music, (only on weekends) and you blame an (alleged) fall in ratings ALL on the pre-64? Sorry, my friend, but that makes zero sense.

If you had MediaBase you would see the 60s stuff, pre and post 65, is playing in all dayparts, not just weekends. And, for whatever the reason, the addition of that 60's stuff caused the entire year so far to deteriorate in the sales demos. The data for August comes out this week, and someone will post the 25-54 somewhere and you can then, and only then, determine if the 80's stuff helped.

 

[scooty430]

Wrong again. I really think that you are not even listening to K-Earth. You couldn't be if you are making the above statements.

It's unlistenable again. It got very usable for a while, as the 50's stuff got killed, but the excessive 80's and the readdition of the 60's stuff made it too broad and to unappealing to the under-55 audiences.

Jhani Kaye added late SEVENTIES when he came on board. Things like Abba and the disco Bee Gees. There was a smattering of very early 80s, for instance Hall and Oates, but very little.

As I said, he transitioned skillfully and slowly over the first several years. Then for some reason, it started to fall apart, and it shows in the numbers. Huge 55+, but a declining 25-54 rank. And, again, for sales, those 55+ are pretty much useless.

It is only in the last month or two that he has gone deep into the late 80's, and he is definitely NOT backsliding on it.

he is backsliding on the sixties, and whatever the reason, he has lost 25-54 from the nice peak before Christmas season last year, and he's out of the top 10 stations in that demo...

Actually, the small number of PPMs mean that there simply could have been two or three oldies fans that dropped out of the PPM program, or got lazy turning on their devices. The sample size is too small, and the gathering technique too erratic, to really deduce anything.

 

[davideduardo]

Why don't you just tune in and enjoy it like everyone else in NY and around the world.

CBS FM has, at best, about one half of one percent of the people in New York listening to them... that's one person in 200 at any time is listening to CBS FM... that is not "everyone" by a long shot.

 

[davideduardo]

Actually, the small number of PPMs mean that there simply could have been two or three oldies fans that dropped out of the PPM program, or got lazy turning on their devices. The sample size is too small, and the gathering technique too erratic, to really deduce anything.

When they win, it is great programming you say.

When they lose, it is bad measurement.

I see your point very clearly now.

 

[scooty430]

So let me get this straight: they add about 40 percent mid/late 1980s music, (suddenly, not slowly) and 10 percent pre-64 music, (only on weekends) and you blame an (alleged) fall in ratings ALL on the pre-64? Sorry, my friend, but that makes zero sense.

If you had MediaBase you would see the 60s stuff, pre and post 65, is playing in all dayparts, not just weekends. And, for whatever the reason, the addition of that 60's stuff caused the entire year so far to deteriorate in the sales demos. The data for August comes out this week, and someone will post the 25-54 somewhere and you can then, and only then, determine if the 80's stuff helped.

Here's two hours on a recent Wednesday:

Chicago - Saturday in the Park
James Brown - I Feel Good
Steve Winwood - Higher Love
Sam and Dave - Soul Man
Carole King - It's Too Late
Marvin Gaye / Tammi Terrell - Aint No Mountain High Enough
America - Sister Golden Hair
Stones - Satisfaction
Moments - Love on a Two Way Street
Turtles - Happy Together
Them - Gloria
Doobies - What A Fool Believes
Michael Jackson - Wanna Be Starting Something
Len Barry - 123
John Lennon - Woman
Drifters - Boardwalk
Rupert Holmes - Escape
CCR - Down On The Corner
Dobie Gray - Drift Away
Beach Boys - Barbara Ann
Billy Joel - Piano Man
Sly Stone - Everyday People
Dan Hartman - I Can Dream About You
Orleans - Still The One
Beatles - All You Need Is Love


There are NO early 60s songs on there, other than the ones K-Earth has always played, such as Satisfaction. I do, though, see Escape, Dan Hartman, MJ, and Higher Love. Those are all songs KRTH did not used to play.