LABOR DAY WEEKEND 2009 - RADIO'S SPECIAL PROGRAMMING

[davideduardo]

"Music taste is formed in early adolescence." I don't really doubt this and even though I once gave an example of how many people I grew up with in Memphis who liked AOR as teens but today almost exclusively listen to country now that they are in their 40s, your explanation for this made sense.

This is one of the best researched areas in the social and behavioural sciences. One's base taste is formed in early adolescence, and simply progresses or branches from there. The CHR oriented early teen may branch to some form of rock, or to a lighter form, such as AC or even modern country depending on environmental factors.

Among Hispanics, a person who grows up hearing what in the US is called (mistakenly) Regional Mexican music forms, like ranchera, will stay close to those forms... they won't suddenly start liking alternative rock in their 20's, nor will they start liking rock or alternative in Spanish, either.

However, I still feel sorry for people whose music tastes are frozen in early adolescence. How sad not to constantly be discovering new genres and artists. I know I'm not the average music consumer as anyone who owns over 6000 records isn't indicative of the public, but still how pathetic to only like at 40 what you liked at 14.

Very few people have the curiosity about music that some posters here have. Most people like familiar songs, familiar artists and familiar styles... so they follow a well defined road as they mature that is closely linked to the early life experience of the person.

Also, there seems to be a link between musical diversity and higher educational and income levels, and I have seen several studies that show greater interest or acceptance in such people. Of course, such people tend to travel more, particularly internationally, and often know other languages and are not threatened by other cultures.

I think you could state that a percentage of that sort of person is not going to be terribly devoted to radio, and will seek out alternatives to satisfy their needs.

 

[scooty430]

While these assumptions may have been true, or may still be true, the world is changing very rapidly these days.

Indeed, there are plenty of people over 55 tweeting, texting, buying HD tvs, and jogging with ipods.

Radio (and advertising) is doomed if it sticks to old assumptions about human behavior, some of which date back 50 or 60 years.

 

[oldies76]

Oh by the way, here's KRTH's top 20 of their "Top 500" Countdown, aired this Labor Day Weekend


1 TEMPTATIONS MY GIRL 1965
2 ORBISON, ROY OH, PRETTY WOMAN 1964
3 SANTANA BLACK MAGIC WOMAN 1970
4 ARMSTRONG, L WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD 1968
5 DOORS LIGHT MY FIRE 1967
6 LENNON, JOHN IMAGINE 1971
7 ROLLING STONES SATISFACTION 1965
8 GAYE, MARVIN WHAT'S GOING ON? 1971
9 BEACH BOYS CALIFORNIA GIRLS 1965
10 JOHN, ELTON YOUR SONG 1970
11 BEATLES HEY JUDE 1968
12 SLEDGE, PERCY WHEN A MAN LOVES A WOMAN 1966
13 RIGHTEOUS B UNCHAINED MELODY 1965
14 MORRISON, V BROWN EYED GIRL 1967
15 FLEETWOOD MAC DREAMS 1977
16 WONDER, STEVIE YOU ARE THE SUNSHINE OF MY LIFE 1973
17 WILD CHERRY PLAY THAT FUNKY MUSIC 1976
18 FRANKLIN, A RESPECT 1967
19 JOHN, ELTON GOODBYE YELLOW BRICK ROAD 1973
20 DRIFTERS UNDER THE BOARDWALK 1964

and CBS-FM's Top 20, of their Top 500 countdown:

1 Thriller Michael Jackson
2 In the Still of the Night The Five Satins
3 Hey Jude The Beatles
4 Rag Doll The Four Seasons
5 Satisfaction The Rolling Stones
6 Can't Help Falling In Love Elvis Presley
7 American Pie Don McLean
8 In My Life The Beatles
9 Mack the Knife Bobby Darin
10 My Girl The Temptations
11 Brandy Looking Glass
12 Hotel California The Eagles
13 Tracy Cuff- Links
14 Dancing Queen ABBA
15 Stairway to Heaven Led Zepplin
16 Sherry The Four Seasons
17 Let It Be The Beatles
18 Cara Mia Jay & the Americans
19 Unchained Melody Righteous Brothers
20 Dawn The Four Seasons

A few similarities between the two stations, but CBS-FM, obviously deeper in it's cuts and more thorough. KRTH's..the same songs as their everyday rotation..nothing special here.

 

[scooty430]

DE said: Among Hispanics, a person who grows up hearing what in the US is called (mistakenly) Regional Mexican music forms, like ranchera, will stay close to those forms... they won't suddenly start liking alternative rock in their 20's, nor will they start liking rock or alternative in Spanish, either.

Fair enough.

But such a person is irrelevant to the discussion. That guy wouldn't listen to oldies at all. So why even bring it up?

The person who WOULD listen to oldies would, obviously, like them. The idea that that person cannot handle a few songs he hasn't heard before is absurd.

 

[scooty430]

Oh by the way, here's KRTH's top 20 of their "Top 500" Countdown, aired this Labor Day Weekend


1 TEMPTATIONS MY GIRL 1965
2 ORBISON, ROY OH, PRETTY WOMAN 1964
3 SANTANA BLACK MAGIC WOMAN 1970
4 ARMSTRONG, L WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD 1968
5 DOORS LIGHT MY FIRE 1967
6 LENNON, JOHN IMAGINE 1971
7 ROLLING STONES SATISFACTION 1965
8 GAYE, MARVIN WHAT'S GOING ON? 1971
9 BEACH BOYS CALIFORNIA GIRLS 1965
10 JOHN, ELTON YOUR SONG 1970
11 BEATLES HEY JUDE 1968
12 SLEDGE, PERCY WHEN A MAN LOVES A WOMAN 1966
13 RIGHTEOUS B UNCHAINED MELODY 1965
14 MORRISON, V BROWN EYED GIRL 1967
15 FLEETWOOD MAC DREAMS 1977
16 WONDER, STEVIE YOU ARE THE SUNSHINE OF MY LIFE 1973
17 WILD CHERRY PLAY THAT FUNKY MUSIC 1976
18 FRANKLIN, A RESPECT 1967
19 JOHN, ELTON GOODBYE YELLOW BRICK ROAD 1973
20 DRIFTERS UNDER THE BOARDWALK 1964

and CBS-FM's Top 20, of their Top 500 countdown:

1 Thriller Michael Jackson
2 In the Still of the Night The Five Satins
3 Hey Jude The Beatles
4 Rag Doll The Four Seasons
5 Satisfaction The Rolling Stones
6 Can't Help Falling In Love Elvis Presley
7 American Pie Don McLean
8 In My Life The Beatles
9 Mack the Knife Bobby Darin
10 My Girl The Temptations
11 Brandy Looking Glass
12 Hotel California The Eagles
13 Tracy Cuff- Links
14 Dancing Queen ABBA
15 Stairway to Heaven Led Zepplin
16 Sherry The Four Seasons
17 Let It Be The Beatles
18 Cara Mia Jay & the Americans
19 Unchained Melody Righteous Brothers
20 Dawn The Four Seasons

A few similarities between the two stations, but CBS-FM, obviously deeper in it's cuts and more thorough. KRTH's..the same songs as their everyday rotation..nothing special here.

K-Earth is now actually being sold as a sleep aide. "FALL ASLEEP FASTER, WITHOUT THE DANGERS OF MEDICATION. Put K-EARTH 101 by your bedside, and SWEET DREAMS await. (Don't forget to ask your doctor about new extra strength "HD" K-EARTH!)

 

[oldies76]

Put K-EARTH 101 by your bedside, and SWEET DREAMS await.

Yeah...how much "Play That Funky Music", "My Girl", "Oh Pretty Woman", "Brown-Eyed Girl" & "Unchained Melody" can we take?? And on top of that KRTH plays it's anthem song alot..."It's the Same Ole Song".....

ZZZzzzzz....goodnight!

 

[Marv-L.A.]

Ron Dante created the Cuff Links, responsible for 'Tracy', and he also created the Archies.

He later earned more success starting in 1975 as Barry Manilow's producer, as well as co-writing (I think) & providing background vocals on many of his hits.

That was a sensational countdown on CBS-FM, and unlike KRTH's ultra-cautious and risk-averse recycled snowjob, was 100% unpredictable.

 

[radio124]

Any song in the KRTH top 20 would cause me to immediately change the station. However, some of the tunes in CBS-FM's top 20 like "In the Still of the Night", "Rag Doll", "In my Life", "Tracy", "Cara Mia", or "Dawn" would have me cranking up the volume, singing along, and really enjoying it.

 

[davideduardo]

But such a person is irrelevant to the discussion. That guy wouldn't listen to oldies at all. So why even bring it up? heard before is absurd.

99% of immigrants from Latin America would not listen to American pop oldies. That's the relevance. The only people who would listen are peeople who grew up here, either born here or arriving quite young, who became familiarized with the songs by hearing them on stations in LA or the place they grew up inside the US.

I owned a Top 40 station in South America in the 60's. It played mostly Spanish langauge pop, but also included many songs off a specific radio station chart from the US as well as from the charts in Italy and France. The station was #1 in upper and middle class listeners, but those listeners as they grew up became anything from the President of the Republic to lawyers and engineers and business owners... they did not emigrate. The ones who emigrated liked a station called Canal Tropical that played cumbias and such... not pop music.

So your idea that the Hispanic (or any other) immigrant community would give a rat's patootie about KRTH's music is in error.

And, as a matter of fact, the English language pop hits there were not the same as those in the US... some were the same, but many, many had no appeal at all there.

The person who WOULD listen to oldies would, obviously, like them.

And those people are not, with few exceptions, immigrants from Latin America.

The idea that that person cannot handle a few songs he hasn't heard before is absurd.

The average person uses 6 different radio stations. When one does something they don't like, they change to another. It can be seen in the moment to moment tracking in MediaMonitors...

 

[scooty430]

DE said: 99% of immigrants from Latin America would not listen to American pop oldies. That's the relevance. The only people who would listen are peeople who grew up here, either born here or arriving quite young, who became familiarized with the songs by hearing them on stations in LA or the place they grew up inside the US.

Again, irrelevant. If immigrants are not listening, then it is a non-issue to this discussion of oldies playlists. You are using the "immigrant" nature of LA to tell us that we can't handle more than 200 oldies. Then you are saying that immigrants don't listen to ANY oldies.

See how that makes no sense?

 

[davideduardo]

DE said: 99% of immigrants from Latin America would not listen to American pop oldies. That's the relevance. The only people who would listen are peeople who grew up here, either born here or arriving quite young, who became familiarized with the songs by hearing them on stations in LA or the place they grew up inside the US.

Again, irrelevant. If immigrants are not listening, then it is a non-issue to this discussion of oldies playlists. You are using the "immigrant" nature of LA to tell us that we can't handle more than 200 oldies. Then you are saying that immigrants don't listen to ANY oldies.

See how that makes no sense?

It makes total sense in the context of LA listening. Try this: there are only 100 shares in any market. No more nor no less. And Spanish language stations take 25 shares out of the running for English stations, leaving 75.

So the pool is a lot more shallow in LA. And, given the way that first generation immigrants bring their music tastes with them, there is little possibility that any not previously exposed to English pop oldies will suddenly start liking them.

And, as to playlist size, I am telling you that a salable audience under 55 will of necessity play few 60's songs, and even fewer from pre-65. So we are left with very late 60's into the 80's, and then with the songs that people still want to hear. That may be 600, 700, or 800 plus a number of fills and occasional feature songs. It is certainly not 200, and it is likely not more than 900 or so.

Oh, and immigrants do like oldies. Their oldies. As a matter of fact, Mexican heritage Hispanics in LA have KRCD, the classic hits station that has, wonder of wonders, a playlist of about 900 songs plus a couple of hundred fillers and feature tunes.

And again, keep in mind that what you call "oldies" which is really classic hits, in NY or LA or a variety of other markets is only being listened to by about 0.4% of the market population... that is not 5%, that is one-tenth of five percent. In fact, in the core classic hits demos, most people are not listening to oldies... they are listening to talk, country, AC, urban AC, classic rock, AAA and a variety of other formats... depending on the market.

 

[scooty430]

DE said: 99% of immigrants from Latin America would not listen to American pop oldies. That's the relevance. The only people who would listen are peeople who grew up here, either born here or arriving quite young, who became familiarized with the songs by hearing them on stations in LA or the place they grew up inside the US.

Again, irrelevant. If immigrants are not listening, then it is a non-issue to this discussion of oldies playlists. You are using the "immigrant" nature of LA to tell us that we can't handle more than 200 oldies. Then you are saying that immigrants don't listen to ANY oldies.

See how that makes no sense?

It makes total sense in the context of LA listening. Try this: there are only 100 shares in any market. No more nor no less. And Spanish language stations take 25 shares out of the running for English stations, leaving 75.

So the pool is a lot more shallow in LA. And, given the way that first generation immigrants bring their music tastes with them, there is little possibility that any not previously exposed to English pop oldies will suddenly start liking them.

And, as to playlist size, I am telling you that a salable audience under 55 will of necessity play few 60's songs, and even fewer from pre-65. So we are left with very late 60's into the 80's, and then with the songs that people still want to hear. That may be 600, 700, or 800 plus a number of fills and occasional feature songs. It is certainly not 200, and it is likely not more than 900 or so.

Oh, and immigrants do like oldies. Their oldies. As a matter of fact, Mexican heritage Hispanics in LA have KRCD, the classic hits station that has, wonder of wonders, a playlist of about 900 songs plus a couple of hundred fillers and feature tunes.

And again, keep in mind that what you call "oldies" which is really classic hits, in NY or LA or a variety of other markets is only being listened to by about 0.4% of the market population... that is not 5%, that is one-tenth of five percent. In fact, in the core classic hits demos, most people are not listening to oldies... they are listening to talk, country, AC, urban AC, classic rock, AAA and a variety of other formats... depending on the market.

K-Earth still uses the term "non-stop Oldies" in their promos. Just heard it a second ago. "Non stop oooolllldiiiieeees - K-Earth 101!" Another case of Eduardo being wrong, but what else is new.

As for the rest of your post, you're missing the point. You're arguing that immigrants don't listen to oldies. Then you're saying playlists need to be small to not scare away the immigrants listening to oldies. (And I don't mean Spanish oldies - geesh, stay focused dude!)

 

[davideduardo]

K-Earth still uses the term "non-stop Oldies" in their promos. Just heard it a second ago. "Non stop oooolllldiiiieeees - K-Earth 101!" Another case of Eduardo being wrong, but what else is new.

Very few classic hits stations use the term "classic hits" on the air. Many, in fact, use the "oldies" term.

However, as I have mentioned only about a dozen times, within the radio and advertising industries, "oldies" and "classic hits" mean two very different things... they are names for two separate formats, just as "adult hits" is the standard name for the Jack and Jack-like formats.

Arbitron distinguishes between the two, and stations presenting for agencies would be very clear about such a distinction.

As for the rest of your post, you're missing the point. You're arguing that immigrants don't listen to oldies.

They don't listen to English language oldies. They listen to oldies in the language of wherever they grew up.

Then you're saying playlists need to be small to not scare away the immigrants listening to oldies.

No, I am not saying that playlists have to be big or small. They will be the size that the listeners determine. But in a market where most people were not born, the diversity of origins... whether they be Oklahoma or Oregon or Ohio or even Fresno... means that there will be fewer consensus songs.

(And I don't mean Spanish oldies - geesh, stay focused dude!)

Nobody in LA plays "Spanish oldies."

 

[scooty430]

K-Earth still uses the term "non-stop Oldies" in their promos. Just heard it a second ago. "Non stop oooolllldiiiieeees - K-Earth 101!" Another case of Eduardo being wrong, but what else is new.

Very few classic hits stations use the term "classic hits" on the air. Many, in fact, use the "oldies" term.

However, as I have mentioned only about a dozen times, within the radio and advertising industries, "oldies" and "classic hits" mean two very different things... they are names for two separate formats, just as "adult hits" is the standard name for the Jack and Jack-like formats.

Arbitron distinguishes between the two, and stations presenting for agencies would be very clear about such a distinction.

As for the rest of your post, you're missing the point. You're arguing that immigrants don't listen to oldies.

They don't listen to English language oldies. They listen to oldies in the language of wherever they grew up.

Then you're saying playlists need to be small to not scare away the immigrants listening to oldies.

No, I am not saying that playlists have to be big or small. They will be the size that the listeners determine. But in a market where most people were not born, the diversity of origins... whether they be Oklahoma or Oregon or Ohio or even Fresno... means that there will be fewer consensus songs.

(And I don't mean Spanish oldies - geesh, stay focused dude!)

Nobody in LA plays "Spanish oldies."

Isn't El Gato Spanish Oldies? (Or Spanish-language, if you want to be technical?)

 

[davideduardo]

Isn't El Gato Spanish Oldies? (Or Spanish-language, if you want to be technical?)

El Gato is rhythmic regional Mexican, and is mostly current and recurrent with CHR level rotations.

KHJ, KRCD and KLYY play Spanish language oldies, but no station plays Spanish Oldies, which would be hits from Spain.