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LARadio.com: Don Burns Out at KTWV
- Thread starter michael hagerty
- Start date
Another move that really was expected. Burn's has a great voice and it's sad to see this happen, but you just knew that it was coming. From what I hear DB had been voice tracked for a while and that was one of the things that just didn't fit the plan. Wonder who will eventually end up in afternoon's there?
Don Burns' picture and write-up are still on the website, with him hosting afternoons. They changed the website to reflect Kim Amidon replacing Brian McKnight in mornings, so they could easily have removed Burns' name and photo if he was also out.
He does have a great voice and he's trying to sound more upbeat, talking over the intros of songs, etc. Is it possible to have too good a voice? Is Burns' a Walter Cronkite in a new world of Glenn Beck and Nancy Grace?
Gregg
[email protected]
He does have a great voice and he's trying to sound more upbeat, talking over the intros of songs, etc. Is it possible to have too good a voice? Is Burns' a Walter Cronkite in a new world of Glenn Beck and Nancy Grace?
Gregg
[email protected]
Gregg said:
Gregg
The laradio.com piece says Burns leaves at the end of the month.
And yes, a great radio voice is now a liability with some listeners and program directors. My kids (ages 18 and 16)heard an aircheck of Lohman and Barkley that I was listening to and said "nobody has voices like those". PDs are increasingly looking for "everyday" voices.
michael hagerty said:
It could be this started with commercial voice overs, where the trend for many years is to either use actors (who can 'act' "everyday"), or just anonymous every day sounding people. Although I have noticed that the most used women VO people tend to have deep voices.
With a few exceptions, most of the DJs in the Bay Area all work hard to sound conversational. The jocks on the Hip Hop and Top 40 stations sound like they've just come in off the street. In other words, they sound like their listeners. I can't remember anybody in the 60s sounding like the Real Don Steele or even Sam Riddle. Even the 'mellow' jocks in those days (Johnny Hayes, Humble Harve) had an act that they stuck to, and sounded like announcers.
Lkeller said:
Llew: You're absolutely right. The difference in those days was that the DJ was considered to be part of the entertainment. Now he or she is viewed by his own station as an interruption in the entertainment...to be minimized as much as possible.
What they don't seem to get is that the more your jocks don't seem like entertainers, the greater that interruption factor is.
When Gary Owens, The Real Don Steele, Lohman and Barkley, Wolfman Jack, Bobby Ocean or most great jocks until the 80s read a live commerecial, it wasn't percieved as a commercial, but as part of the show.
Michael, you are on the money. When I was working Top 40 at KXOA we did "live" spots and tags and we did talk ups on almost every song. Without the jock back then, there was no show. And while it was tiring to do a shift you were energized while on the air because "you were" the show.
As for voices, when I broke into radio every add in R&R for jobs seemed to include the line "good pipes a must". The guys who didn't have great voices usually got ahead with great content, but they usually didn't do drive time.
Back then you could be 45 years old and working Top 40. Now you can be 20 and if you have a good voice you are tagged as sounding "too old" and will not get the job. You were expected to not sound like the guy next door. You had to be polished and on your horse. Your delivery had to be great. I remember Dean Goss telling me that it good "infection" was a must. Jocks did shorter shifts then too because they were expected to work at a higher level for the 3 or 4 hours that they were on. I used to listen to KFRC a lot when I was a kid and mistakes were so rare that when they did happen, it was pretty noticeable. Most big league stations were union, the jocks did short shifts and had engineers. It may have cost more, but when the jock and engineer worked in concert with each other they became a well oiled machine and delivered the goods.
It's all very different now, and while I do understand that for many of the contemporary formats of today the jock is expected to sound like the listener, there are still some formats like Oldies and AC that need that polished, smooth delivery no matter what the energy level is.
Radio continues to evolve. The deejays of the 50's didn't sound much like those of the mid to late 1960's, and by the early 70's there was more evolution. I believe that it will continue.
One place where older jocks with good to great pipes can go is imaging where it's expected that they sound big and smooth.
These changes are happening in television now as well. Network announcers now don't sound anything like those of the 60's, 70's and 80's. Some sound just like any other voice actor.
The times they are a changin'...
As for voices, when I broke into radio every add in R&R for jobs seemed to include the line "good pipes a must". The guys who didn't have great voices usually got ahead with great content, but they usually didn't do drive time.
Back then you could be 45 years old and working Top 40. Now you can be 20 and if you have a good voice you are tagged as sounding "too old" and will not get the job. You were expected to not sound like the guy next door. You had to be polished and on your horse. Your delivery had to be great. I remember Dean Goss telling me that it good "infection" was a must. Jocks did shorter shifts then too because they were expected to work at a higher level for the 3 or 4 hours that they were on. I used to listen to KFRC a lot when I was a kid and mistakes were so rare that when they did happen, it was pretty noticeable. Most big league stations were union, the jocks did short shifts and had engineers. It may have cost more, but when the jock and engineer worked in concert with each other they became a well oiled machine and delivered the goods.
It's all very different now, and while I do understand that for many of the contemporary formats of today the jock is expected to sound like the listener, there are still some formats like Oldies and AC that need that polished, smooth delivery no matter what the energy level is.
Radio continues to evolve. The deejays of the 50's didn't sound much like those of the mid to late 1960's, and by the early 70's there was more evolution. I believe that it will continue.
One place where older jocks with good to great pipes can go is imaging where it's expected that they sound big and smooth.
These changes are happening in television now as well. Network announcers now don't sound anything like those of the 60's, 70's and 80's. Some sound just like any other voice actor.
The times they are a changin'...
Oh, almost forgot. Don Burn's has an incredible voice. I always found him a pleasure to listen to.
Today(Monday 5/17)'s laradio.com says that Burns was told the station is going live and local in afternoon drive. Burns has been voicetracking from his home in La Quinta, and he's not prepared to move back to Los Angeles. According to Burns, previous CBS management had encouraged his move to the desert.
It's rare they leave you on the air for a few more weeks if they really want you out. But if you're voice-tracked, I guess you won't say anything negative.
And if true, that's some radio story. Burns moves to La Quinta (near Palm Springs) thinking CBS doesn't mind him doing his show voice tracked. Then they tell them they want to go live and with him living in La Quinta, he can't do it anymore. Groucho Marx... "Here's your hat. What's your hurry?" Ugh!
Gregg
[email protected]
And if true, that's some radio story. Burns moves to La Quinta (near Palm Springs) thinking CBS doesn't mind him doing his show voice tracked. Then they tell them they want to go live and with him living in La Quinta, he can't do it anymore. Groucho Marx... "Here's your hat. What's your hurry?" Ugh!
Gregg
[email protected]
Usually I have my doubts about air personalities switching over to pure-play internet radio and making a success of it. But I think if anyone can do it and do it with a Smooth Jazz format, Don Burns can. The man was not just synonymous with The Wave, but with the format and knows that music well. And then there's that "voice."
I may be wrong, but I think Don has a large enough fan base who would gladly follow him to the internet should he ever decide to do a web stream. Included in this group would also be current and former Wave listeners disgruntled by the format changes. And I think advertisers would come on board as well.
c5
I may be wrong, but I think Don has a large enough fan base who would gladly follow him to the internet should he ever decide to do a web stream. Included in this group would also be current and former Wave listeners disgruntled by the format changes. And I think advertisers would come on board as well.
c5
Gregg said:
There is no technical reason that if he is equipped to voice track from his home that they could not have him do a live show from there. It is done more often than you might think. They just wanted him out and that was that.
Probably the new guy will get less $$ and when he asks for more he'll be shown the door as well.
Kaye is no dummy and I'm sure that he wants to avoid the kind of PR nightmare that has plagued KOST since they let Kim Amidon go, but.... He wants to re-shape the Wave and my guess is that he will continue to move it in the direction of a mainstream AC to become a head to head competitor of KOST. Being "live" in PM drive is part of his plan and he probably wants someone who sounds a little younger as well. He was able to go live at night and in other dayparts because the talent in those shifts live in town. But I think Kaye wanted to make the change anyway and the whole "doesn't live close enough" aspect made it easier on him to do so.
Laradio.com is reporting that Don has decided not to work out his notice. He's already off the air at the Wave.
Well, I just checked the Wave website and yes, Don Burns is now missing from the DJ list. He was there this past weekend.
With Burns' and Brian McKnight's departures, the first five personalities listed are all female... Pat Prescott and Kim Amidon mornings, Talaya Trigueros middays, Keri Tombazian nights and weekender Deborah Howell. No one is listed doing afternoons and no one is listed in overnights, although The Wave does have someone voicetrack the overnight shift. So at least CBS is willing to pay someone to make sure the station doesn't sound like nobody's there and most songs are announced.
I've said before that I still like the Wave. The DJs are good (although I'll miss Don Burns), I like the music mix, including three smooth jazz songs per hour. And I like most of the vocals, including many jazz-influenced hits from the past 30 years that KOST would never play.
Gregg
[email protected]
With Burns' and Brian McKnight's departures, the first five personalities listed are all female... Pat Prescott and Kim Amidon mornings, Talaya Trigueros middays, Keri Tombazian nights and weekender Deborah Howell. No one is listed doing afternoons and no one is listed in overnights, although The Wave does have someone voicetrack the overnight shift. So at least CBS is willing to pay someone to make sure the station doesn't sound like nobody's there and most songs are announced.
I've said before that I still like the Wave. The DJs are good (although I'll miss Don Burns), I like the music mix, including three smooth jazz songs per hour. And I like most of the vocals, including many jazz-influenced hits from the past 30 years that KOST would never play.
Gregg
[email protected]
I have to agree with both Bryan Simmons and Michael Haggerty; growing up listening to personality-driven stations such as KHJ, KRLA, KFWB, KMPC, KEZY, KROQ-AM (Steve Lundy in PM drive was awesome!!!), KFI, KMET and several others, today's corporate owners don't realize that the jocks of the sixties and seventies were what enhanced the radio station you'd be listening to, regardless of the format.
PPM world notwithstanding, personalities should be encouraged, and not discouraged from entertaining their listeners, and not being thought of as a nuisance who needs to keep the chatter to a minimum.
All of the jocks at stations programmed/and or overseen like visionaries such as Bill Drake, Ron Jacobs, KRLA's Dick Moreland and KCBQ's Buzz Bennett were entertainers first, and rarely seen as being deterrents to the enjoyment of radio.
I have no idea who the PDs of top 40 behemoths KFRC, KLIF/Dallas and KIMN/Denver were in 1974 when I visited those cities on vacation, but those were also awesome radio stations with stellar personalities.
PPM world notwithstanding, personalities should be encouraged, and not discouraged from entertaining their listeners, and not being thought of as a nuisance who needs to keep the chatter to a minimum.
All of the jocks at stations programmed/and or overseen like visionaries such as Bill Drake, Ron Jacobs, KRLA's Dick Moreland and KCBQ's Buzz Bennett were entertainers first, and rarely seen as being deterrents to the enjoyment of radio.
I have no idea who the PDs of top 40 behemoths KFRC, KLIF/Dallas and KIMN/Denver were in 1974 when I visited those cities on vacation, but those were also awesome radio stations with stellar personalities.
Marv-L.A. said:
The problem, Marv, is that we've spent 30 years training the audience to consider personalities as interruptions. First, by promising "Less Talk, More Rock", and then by diluting what the air talent said and how they said it...so that, in fact, it added nothing. Just a series of voices of differing (but not so widely as before) timbre reading the same basic liner cards ("K-Hits 97, where we let our music do the talking") with very little enthusiasm or inflection.
So now, they ARE interruptions...they're breaking the flow of music with nothing of value to say. And the news? Well, that's five or six items pulled from the "Life" section of USA Today (which means you read it on your iPhone yesterday), along with an "American Idol" update.
So you've got a population where those in the desirable demographic have most likely never heard radio done any other way. Can you train them to embrace personality? Doubtful. At least not in the sense that we grew up with it. In the same way it took years to end personality radio, it will take years to get the audience to find value in what those voices have to say...if you can do it at all.
I'd begin by requiring that content be as fresh as what the audience can access themselves. Today, that means you can't voicetrack, you have to be live...and your "always on" content feed is Twitter. Which gives you the opportunity to say that Britney in WeHo just told you about this really cool street mime...or whatever.
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