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Las Vegas, NV DXing FM/TV

I don't really know how long I'm going to be in Vegas for,

Of cource I'm bring my Sony Watchman, DX-380 and my Walkman

Trying Analog TV the most, But I found out KSNV is on VHF DTV 2, I'm guessing that would ruin the chance getting somethin on Ch 2, 3-6 might be a shot

If there E's while I'm there
 
MarioMania said:
I don't really know how long I'm going to be in Vegas for,

Of cource I'm bring my Sony Watchman, DX-380 and my Walkman

Trying Analog TV the most, But I found out KSNV is on VHF DTV 2, I'm guessing that would ruin the chance getting somethin on Ch 2, 3-6 might be a shot

If there E's while I'm there

Wow, you'll be in one of the few cities where ch 2 won't open up for you! DTV should be narrow enough that ch 3 should be available, though.

May/June/July are THEEE months! We're in the early stages.

That being said, I don't know of any DXer in that area, or that whole state, for that matter. I am not sure how good/bad E-skip will be.

cd
 
It's a tough place to do DX, for a variety of reasons. Even in the analog days, there never seemed to be much in the way of an e-skip path to or from Vegas. I don't recall KVBC (3) or KVVU (5) being reported often by DXers, even in that "magic" 700-1200 mile zone where e-skip usually lands. KVBC's DTV signal on 2 is fairly potent, and the high-V band is quite full (KLAS on 7, KVVU on 9, KLVX on 11, KTNV on 12, if memory serves), so you won't get much high-V - but then, there's no other high-V to see until you get to Phoenix or LA, 300 miles away, and those TV signals simply do not reach Vegas, ever.

Vegas sits pretty deep in a bowl, surrounded by mountains many thousands of feet above the valley floor. The area rarely (almost never, in fact) gets any of the tropospheric ducting that's common in other parts of the country, All of the Vegas TVs and most of the FMs are on the Black Mountain ridge in Henderson, which is something like 1000 feet above the valley floor, but far below the much taller mountains that surround the Vegas valley. Very little gets in from outside on FM, especially now that the dial has been filled wall-to-wall by drop-ins and boosters and translators. Even stuff that looks relatively close on a map - St. George, Barstow, Lake Havasu, Kingman - just doesn't get over the wall of mountains into the valley. The only stations that easily get beyond the valley are the FMs up on Mount Potosi, southwest of Vegas. Those stations (88.9, 89.7, 92.3, 93.1, 97.1, 104.3, 107.5) carry for 150+ miles up and down I-15 beyond Vegas. You could probably get some decent DX from up there, but you can't drive up there and it's not accessible to the public.

Within the valley, your best bet for DX will probably be on AM, especially if you can find an area away from the electrical noise that seems to be all-pervasive in the valley. The Vegas AM dial is relatively lightly populated compared to other cities of similar size (nothing below 670, nothing above 1460, only one station running AM IBOC) and because Vegas is one of the most geographically isolated big cities in America, there's quite literally nothing else of significance on AM within 200 miles. At night, if you can get away from ambient electrical noise, you'll probably hear a lot of AM from the western US and Mexico that's obscured at your usual location in the Bay Area.

One thing you might want to try is to take the drive up to Mt. Charleston, west of Las Vegas in the Spring Mountains. The mountain itself is over 11,000 feet tall and the road to the lodge only goes to 7700 feet, so you'll still be "within the bowl" at the top of it, but the extra height might allow you to hear some FM and maybe even see some TV from Utah and Arizona; you'll be blocked still to the west into California. Again, there's not much out there in the desert to hear, but you might at least be able to get some St. George and Kingman signals.

It's a very different radio environment from the crowded Bay Area. I'll be interested to hear what you hear out there.
 
When I was in Vegas for a bit I distinctly remember even the local FMs would occasionally get very noisy within the city depending how hot or dry it was.
Some days they were clear, others they would be noisy as can be.
Local TV reception was ok analog. I get the same analog reception 30 miles away from Dallas as I did inside Las Vegas.
 
Hey Mario, what about AM?

Even though we're getting closer to summer, it should still be interesting at night.

And even the day too.

According to the maps, ground conductivity is good out there.

I bet you could get KFI all day and maybe even KALL from Salt Lake City, just to name a couple of many stations.
 
gar fla said:
Hey Mario, what about AM?

Even though we're getting closer to summer, it should still be interesting at night.

And even the day too.

According to the maps, ground conductivity is good out there.

I bet you could get KFI all day and maybe even KALL from Salt Lake City, just to name a couple of many stations.

And, KSL natch....I heard KSL in the day IIRC from Riverside CA; however it was in November 1982.

cd
 
I left out KSL only because they are non directional.

KALL sends most of it's signal in that direction.

Another daytime possibility may be 660 KTNN.
 
Not sure what maps you're looking at, gar, but the dry sand out there isn't very good for AM ground conductivity. A few of the bigger LA signals (KFI, KNX) are audible by day, and yes, you can usually hear 700 from Salt Lake, but it's not especially fertile AM groundwave territory, at least not in my experience (and I was just there a week ago.)
 
Not sure what maps you're looking at, gar, but the dry sand out there isn't very good for AM ground conductivity.



The ground conductivity is much better out there than it is here in the east.

Here's a map.

http://filebay1.home.comcast.net/~filebay1/ground.jpg


A few of the bigger LA signals (KFI, KNX) are audible by day, and yes, you can usually hear 700 from Salt Lake,


That kind of reception would be impossible on land in the east.
 
The Strip, especially, is possibly one of the most Sodding Awful Worst Godd-Forsaken Places On Earth to do any serious DX work. Not only do you have all the noisy computer-based gambling machines but the multitude of other poorly-shielded things that consume electricity. Unless you take along a really good-quality ultra-sensitive receiver (like an F1HD), on a Walkman radio you likely won't hear much but lots of buzzing and whining noises, even on VHF/FM. Learned that from experience.

Granted, that was just over ten years ago. I can imagine how much worse it's probably gotten since then. Considering where you're going to be, Mario, I wish you much luck!

(See also the "Fear and Loathing" thread on the Ibiquity board.)
 
I stayed in the Stratosphere last time I was there -- I swear they must have intentionally designed RF shielding into the building. My recollection is that I could only get ONE AM station during the day (?!) (and it wasn't KDWN)

I think it would probably turn out to be more productive to walk up & down the Strip & gawk at the bizarre architecture...
 
gar fla said:
Not sure what maps you're looking at, gar, but the dry sand out there isn't very good for AM ground conductivity.



The ground conductivity is much better out there than it is here in the east.

Here's a map.

http://filebay1.home.comcast.net/~filebay1/ground.jpg

That's the FCC's infamous "M3" conductivity map, and it's notoriously inaccurate. Look at any real-world AM application filed in recent years anywhere in Nevada or Utah or Arizona and you'll see that the consulting engineers always take actual measurements that show far lower conductivity than the M3 map.

There is a huge real-world difference between the areas that show as "15" in Iowa or central Illinois and the largely-mythical "15" that shows along the Colorado River in NV and AZ.
 
w9wi said:
I stayed in the Stratosphere last time I was there -- I swear they must have intentionally designed RF shielding into the building. My recollection is that I could only get ONE AM station during the day (?!) (and it wasn't KDWN)

I think it would probably turn out to be more productive to walk up & down the Strip & gawk at the bizarre architecture...

Even at the top of the Stratosphere, it's hard to get anything that you wouldn't get on the ground. 105.7 The Oasis broadcasts from the top of the Stratosphere, and overloaded my radio up there. The climate just isn't conducive for tropo. There are locals and translators jammed in almost every 400 kHz. You could drive out of the valley and have the mountains block the Vegas stations, and that would be a great place for e-skip. As for AM reception, I could hear the Chicago clear channels at night.
 
That's the FCC's infamous "M3" conductivity map, and it's notoriously inaccurate. Look at any real-world AM application filed in recent years anywhere in Nevada or Utah or Arizona and you'll see that the consulting engineers always take actual measurements that show far lower conductivity than the M3 map.

There is a huge real-world difference between the areas that show as "15" in Iowa or central Illinois and the largely-mythical "15" that shows along the Colorado River in NV and AZ.


Well, that M3 Conductivity map is all I've been aware of and I guess it doesn't show the more specific local variations you mention but even still, from all the reports I've heard and the Radio Locator maps, daytime groundwave reception generally is far better in that region than in the eastern third of the country for sure.
 
If you're on the strip forget about decent radio reception. KDWN is about all I can hear and even then I better be near the window.
 
Nick said:
w9wi said:
I stayed in the Stratosphere last time I was there -- I swear they must have intentionally designed RF shielding into the building. My recollection is that I could only get ONE AM station during the day (?!) (and it wasn't KDWN)

I think it would probably turn out to be more productive to walk up & down the Strip & gawk at the bizarre architecture...

Even at the top of the Stratosphere, it's hard to get anything that you wouldn't get on the ground. 105.7 The Oasis broadcasts from the top of the Stratosphere, and overloaded my radio up there. The climate just isn't conducive for tropo. There are locals and translators jammed in almost every 400 kHz. You could drive out of the valley and have the mountains block the Vegas stations, and that would be a great place for e-skip. As for AM reception, I could hear the Chicago clear channels at night.

The only time I've been to Las Vegas was in April 2006 for a trip that was about 50/50 work and play. Driving up and down the strip at night as well as out toward the raceway, I remember KFI, KNBR and KSL being very loud. I did get WBAP and WOAI on the interstate the first night en route from the airport to my hotel. This was around midnight their time; 2 a.m. in Texas. I don't remember many specifics because it's been more than six years, but I think WBAP was the farthest east I heard. I'm sure I'd have remembered snagging WLW or a Chicago station.
Also, their AM 840 was the first station I ever heard running IBOC at night.
I do remember thinking how different AM would have sounded even 25 miles to the east, with the nulls KDWN and 840 must throw in that direction.
 
Chicago from Las Vegas would be a huge challenge nowadays. There are local stations now in Vegas on 670 and 720, and powerful skywave at night on 780 from KKOH Reno and on 890 from KDXU St. George.

The Vegas 670 (KMZQ) is a very recent drop-in made possible by the downgrade of KBOI Boise. It runs only 600 watts at night and could very well be nullable with a good antenna system to hear WSCR. It doesn't help that there are two very strong skywave signals blasting away on the adjacent channels, KTNN Window Rock on 660 and KNBR San Francisco on 680. The path from Vegas to Chicago goes almost right through KTNN.
 
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