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Latest on Times Square Tower for WBGO

BruceS8852

BruceS8852

As a member of WBGO, I receive their program guide called Upbeat. In the latest issue there is an article discussing their efforts to build a new tower in Times Square which would be twice the height of their current tower in Newark and would enable the station to reach 1 million more people in the New York/New Jersey area. I live in Queens and can pick it up well in my car but not in my apartment. The article states the station must raise $3 million to build it as the construction permit will expire on June 2, 2012. Why is there a deadline for a permit for a station that has been on the air since 1979? If they don't raise enough money by then, can an extension be granted?

Bruce
 
The FCC gives you three years to build out a construction permit, with almost no exceptions whatsoever (some acts of God get extensions.) This is to keep permits from preventing other stations from being built or improving their facilities while companies sit on permits for years and years.

The idea is for license holders to have the means for construction before getting the permit approved.
 
Sometimes looming deadlines are just what is needed to get people to dig a little deeper into their pockets to make things happen.

The good news is that the Times Square tower and FM antenna have been up there for eight or nine years, and are already being used by, at least, eight or nine NYC FM stations for either backup transmitters or primaries.

Among those stations with their primary transmitters there are non-commercials WNYE, and WKCR. So to oversimplify, all WBGO has to do is buy a new transmitter, and plug it into the existing antenna tower. It's not like there has to be new construction on top of the building etc. that would need a lot of time before the FCC deadline next June.

To kick off the fund raising for this new antenna The Prudential Foundation alone gave a $500,000 challenge grant last November. At last report, WBGO now has, at least, $1.5-million.

These are tough economic times but something tells me all the needed money will show up just in time. ;) At least, lets hope so.
 
reelyreal said:
The FCC gives you three years to build out a construction permit, with almost no exceptions whatsoever (some acts of God get extensions.) This is to keep permits from preventing other stations from being built or improving their facilities while companies sit on permits for years and years.

The idea is for license holders to have the means for construction before getting the permit approved.
Click to expand...

That's definitely true for new stations. There's a recent case in the wilds of North Dakota where a party bought an existing unbuilt CP. In a case like this qualified buyers get an extra 18 months. Turns out the new owner of the CP for whatever reason couldn't use the tower originally specified in the CP, and sought to change city of license with only a month left before expiration. FCC said too bad and deleted the CP at the expiration. (So, before you plunk over your hard earned cash, do your due diligence on the object of your desire beforehand..)

BUT, for existing stations the FCC is more lenient at least in one example I can cite from my home state in Iowa. KMGO in Centerville is about 80 air miles from Des Moines. In 2006 KMGO sought and was approved an upgrade to go from a C1, 100 kW at 500 feet to a full C0, 100 kW at 450 meters, or 1476 feet at a site about 30 miles away from Centerville in the direction of Des Moines.

This CP wasn't built in the first three years, but KMGO had the CP renewed for another three years. I'm sorry, but this thing just won't ever be economically viable. The service area would include Des Moines, but the city grade doesn't quite get there, and the rest of the service area is rural.

In short, this is a good example why CPs for existing stations should follow the guidelines for new station CPs. Three years to build out or good-bye.
 
BruceS8852 said:
As a member of WBGO, I receive their program guide called Upbeat. In the latest issue there is an article discussing their efforts to build a new tower in Times Square which would be twice the height of their current tower in Newark and would enable the station to reach 1 million more people in the New York/New Jersey area. I live in Queens and can pick it up well in my car but not in my apartment. The article states the station must raise $3 million to build it as the construction permit will expire on June 2, 2012. Why is there a deadline for a permit for a station that has been on the air since 1979? If they don't raise enough money by then, can an extension be granted?

Bruce
Click to expand...

WBGO has been on the air much longer than 1979. I remember it back in the 60's. It took the full time Jazz format in September 1981 when 106.7 WRVR changed from Jazz to "Urban Cowboy" Country WKHK "Kick 106".

But, what the others have said is true. In a nut shell, it forces the prospective change to be pushed forward and not sat on.

In the beginning of radio, licenses were being grabbed up just to have them. So, to avoid that from happening, there are expiration dates.

And YES! WBGO will have the money when it's needed. It's New York!

My question is how strong the signal will be inside the "Pru"...That will be my benchmark.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
 
WBGO has been on the air much longer than 1979.
Click to expand...

WBGO was on the air in the early 1950s, and possibly before that. It was owned by the Newark Board of Education, and broadcast educational programs that were heard in classrooms and by kids sick at home during the school day. It didn't broadcast nights, weekends, or during the summer. It was an underused frequency; the Board of Ed didn't really know what to do with it, and a non-profit was formed to take it over when there was an opening for a jazz format, which fit well with Newark's musical heritage, population and resources.

There was a big jazz studies program at Rutgers University in Newark, which had a large library of jazz recordings and lots of expertise to offer the new station.

It is probably the leading jazz station in the country.
 
TimeIsTight said:
WBGO has been on the air much longer than 1979.
Click to expand...

WBGO was on the air in the early 1950s, and possibly before that. It was owned by the Newark Board of Education, and broadcast educational programs that were heard in classrooms and by kids sick at home during the school day. It didn't broadcast nights, weekends, or during the summer. It was an underused frequency; the Board of Ed didn't really know what to do with it, and a non-profit was formed to take it over when there was an opening for a jazz format, which fit well with Newark's musical heritage, population and resources.
Click to expand...

In Chicago, WBEZ had been folllowing a similar programming format for 30 years since its start in 1941. The Chicago Board of Education was considering closing it down when a new GM was hired who called for a full-time schedule of general programming and NPR membership instead (in a market where WBEZ was the only secular non-com signal reaching the bulk of the metropolitan area). They tried it and are still at it 40 years later (although the Board of Ed sold the station to an NFP entity in 1989).
 
It won't be as simple as buying a new TX, and plugging it in to the existing antenna. If you look at the CP, it calls for a directional pattern with a null to the west to protect the useless 88.1 in Hopatcong NJ that runs 200% modulation with no audio processing. So they will have to have a custom antenna built and then mounted on the 4 Times roof or on the tower somewhere (haven't looked at the details of the CP lately for the exact HAAT). Add in new plumbing, transfer switches etc. and the cost goes way up for this project.
 
WNTIRadio said:
It won't be as simple as buying a new TX, and plugging it in to the existing antenna. If you look at the CP, it calls for a directional pattern with a null to the west to protect the useless 88.1 in Hopatcong NJ that runs 200% modulation with no audio processing. So they will have to have a custom antenna built and then mounted on the 4 Times roof or on the tower somewhere (haven't looked at the details of the CP lately for the exact HAAT). Add in new plumbing, transfer switches etc. and the cost goes way up for this project.
Click to expand...
Or, buy the "useless 88.1", take it dark, return the license to the FCC, and be done with it.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
 
badjef said:
WNTIRadio said:
It won't be as simple as buying a new TX, and plugging it in to the existing antenna. If you look at the CP, it calls for a directional pattern with a null to the west to protect the useless 88.1 in Hopatcong NJ that runs 200% modulation with no audio processing. So they will have to have a custom antenna built and then mounted on the 4 Times roof or on the tower somewhere (haven't looked at the details of the CP lately for the exact HAAT). Add in new plumbing, transfer switches etc. and the cost goes way up for this project.
Click to expand...
Or, buy the "useless 88.1", take it dark, return the license to the FCC, and be done with it.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
Click to expand...

That's what the big boys do.
 
Or better yet, buy the 88.1 and simulcast WBGO on it. The interference between 88.3 and 88.1 will be allowed if the stations are owned by the same company.
 
Nick said:
Or better yet, buy the 88.1 and simulcast WBGO on it. The interference between 88.3 and 88.1 will be allowed if the stations are owned by the same company.
Click to expand...

Which option would cost less money?
 
Doesn't the new 88.3 antenna also need to be pulled in to the East/Northeast to protect some co- and adjacent channels in LI and CT?
 
luperm said:
Doesn't the new 88.3 antenna also need to be pulled in to the East/Northeast to protect some co- and adjacent channels in LI and CT?
Click to expand...
Their old pattern is electronically circular but is directionalized by the terrain only.
The new directional installation has a complex pattern with slightly less range to the south, southwest, and west, mostly because of distance but also with and a minor null at 300°. They gain much to the north and a bit to the east. They gain just a tad to the northeast, although their deepest null is at 60°. Their biggest improvements will be everything east of the Hudson and due north.
 
Still not as easy as buying the 88.1. They are pretty well hemmed in by 88.5 in Sussex, 88.7's in north and central Jersey, WCWP on Long Island at 88.1 etc. etc.
 
I'm less than a mile from the tower for 88.1. When it first signed on, I thought it was a pirate because: 1. as WNTIRadio pointed out, huge overmodulation. 2. It's spanish. Of course it completely wipes out WBGO with me being so close. There isn't a spanish speaking population up this way [EDIT] . It's a complete waste of that signal. It's actually in Lake Hopatcong (Jefferson Township) not Hopatcong on the other side of the lake. I say either buy it out and take it dark and have WBGO to listen to again since being up around 1,000 to 1,300 feet (depending on the hill you're on after going up Mase Mountain) or give it to the township or the High School to have as a local station for Lake Hopatcong and the surrounding area actually SERVING the population and not useless spanish religion crap.


[EDIT-inflammatory]
 
[EDIT]

So here we are in the final week of '11 and the thread ended before the station moved.
The FCC site is inconclusive and R-L shows that they have moved.
The WSJ reports that they are going to move this Friday.
As we live a couple dozen area codes south of the apple, would someone care to fill us in on the latest.
Many years ago, a grammar teacher told us that under no circumstances are we to ever end a request with a question mark, even if it is worded as such



[EDIT-reference to deleted material]
 
I had the station on this morning and they mentioned several times that the transition to the new Times Square transmitter will take place this Friday at 1pm. There is also another thread about this.
 
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