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Latest rating...

TheBigA said:
mikerock said:
They did it to themselves. I prefer radio but they bring nothing new or interesting to the table. Big media companies like CBS radio killed it.

So you're saying smaller companies like Buckley and Merlin are much better at bringing new and interesting things to radio?

Sure WOR could do better but they have local talent and a variety of voices and opinions. That is more than you can say about any CBS Radio property.

Merlin gave us, if only for a few months, the first time since 1985 a NYC station played that amount of new music and variety of artists. That short experiment and style of up-beat pop-ish sounding rock hits (today's Alternative) has not been heard in NYC since WAPP in the 80s and WABC in the early 70s. They just picked the wrong news format which they executed horribly. Done right a personality driven live and local news talk could still work well in NYC.

Look at Alexander Broadcasting, their local low powered day time FM 1300 WRCR here in Rockland County provides great detail of what is happening here locally. They are automated music in the day but the 4 hours in the morning provides far more local information than I would get in a week if I was a NYC resident looking for information from NYC radio.
 
mikerock said:
Sure WOR could do better but they have local talent and a variety of voices and opinions. That is more than you can say about any CBS Radio property.

Which CBS station doesn't have local talent?
 
TheBigA said:
mikerock said:
Sure WOR could do better but they have local talent and a variety of voices and opinions. That is more than you can say about any CBS Radio property.

Which CBS station doesn't have local talent?

1. Name a CBS property in NY that plays a variety of artists, new music and information from the talent?
2. Name a CBS property where the talent is actually allowed to speak?
3. If YES to #1 or #2 then name a CBS property where the talent speaks and is not reading the same text he just read 5 minutes ago like a mindless automaton or some silly one liner?
4. If you picked WFAN: People complaining all day about an athlete not throwing the ball far enough is not bringing anything interesting or new to the table. As far as games this is not the old days where we do not have TV's or internet to watch the games. Bringing that format to FM and eliminating a format only increases the lack of variety we have in NY. It was completely un-necessary and is devaluing their 660 AM property.
 
mikerock said:
TheBigA said:
mikerock said:
Sure WOR could do better but they have local talent and a variety of voices and opinions. That is more than you can say about any CBS Radio property.

Which CBS station doesn't have local talent?

1. Name a CBS property in NY that plays a variety of artists, new music and information from the talent?
2. Name a CBS property where the talent is actually allowed to speak?
3. If YES to #1 or #2 then name a CBS property where the talent speaks and is not reading the same text he just read 5 minutes ago like a mindless automaton or some silly one liner?
4. If you picked WFAN: People complaining all day about an athlete not throwing the ball far enough is not bringing anything interesting or new to the table. As far as games this is not the old days where we do not have TV's or internet to watch the games. Bringing that format to FM and eliminating a format only increases the lack of variety we have in NY. It was completely un-necessary and is devaluing their 660 AM property.

Your post was about local talent. You can't name a CBS station without local talent, because all six have them.
 
TheBigA said:
mikerock said:
TheBigA said:
mikerock said:
Sure WOR could do better but they have local talent and a variety of voices and opinions. That is more than you can say about any CBS Radio property.

Which CBS station doesn't have local talent?

1. Name a CBS property in NY that plays a variety of artists, new music and information from the talent?
2. Name a CBS property where the talent is actually allowed to speak?
3. If YES to #1 or #2 then name a CBS property where the talent speaks and is not reading the same text he just read 5 minutes ago like a mindless automaton or some silly one liner?
4. If you picked WFAN: People complaining all day about an athlete not throwing the ball far enough is not bringing anything interesting or new to the table. As far as games this is not the old days where we do not have TV's or internet to watch the games. Bringing that format to FM and eliminating a format only increases the lack of variety we have in NY. It was completely un-necessary and is devaluing their 660 AM property.

Your post was about local talent. You can't name a CBS station without local talent, because all six have them.

You intentionally missed the point. If you cannot hear them or if they are automatons then for all intensive purposes they do not have local talent.
 
Apparently you're not familiar with the incredible work being done at CBS Radio. Show me a larger news staff at ANY radio station in the country than WCBS and/or WINS. Show me a station like WBZ with a live and local overnight show. Did you know that ALL stations at CBS Radio New York, CBS Radio Hartford, and CBS Radio Boston are all staffed 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Did you know that CBS Radio stations have local program directors, not Premium Choice?

You obviously know nothing of the work being done at CBS Radio.
 
mikerock said:
You intentionally missed the point. If you cannot hear them or if they are automatons then for all intensive purposes they do not have local talent.

What is an intensive purpose?
 
mets18 said:
mikerock said:
You intentionally missed the point. If you cannot hear them or if they are automatons then for all intensive purposes they do not have local talent.

What is an intensive purpose?

"intended". I am just so intense I forget to spell check, lol.
 
reelyreal said:
Apparently you're not familiar with the incredible work being done at CBS Radio. Show me a larger news staff at ANY radio station in the country than WCBS and/or WINS. Show me a station like WBZ with a live and local overnight show. Did you know that ALL stations at CBS Radio New York, CBS Radio Hartford, and CBS Radio Boston are all staffed 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Did you know that CBS Radio stations have local program directors, not Premium Choice?

You obviously know nothing of the work being done at CBS Radio.

Your post is irrelevant to my point. What you speak of is a good thing but I was speaking of the on-air product quality. You can throw all the resources you want at a station and it will not make a difference in the on-air product quality. Ratings are meaningless when it relates to product quality. If the only news stations have a bland crap format people have no where else to go so the ratings will be there regardless. It does not mean they have a quality product.

They bring nothing new to the table. I want to slash my wrists after more than 15 minutes listening to those stations. I can listen to an hour of news from a shortwave outlet and not get bored. There is a big problem with quality if I can listen to a shortwave station for longer or the low powered AM station here in the Rockland County rather than suffer through 15 minutes of WINS or WCBS.
 
If ratings and revenue are totally unrelated to product quality then I have to ask:

1) How do you objectively gauge product quality?

2) If product quality has no correlation to ratings and revenue, then why does it even matter?
 
reelyreal said:
If ratings and revenue are totally unrelated to product quality then I have to ask:

1) How do you objectively gauge product quality?

2) If product quality has no correlation to ratings and revenue, then why does it even matter?

I never said anything about revenue and you have taken my comments out of context. If people have no where else to go they are going to listen to your product regardless of it's quality. I am saying CBS produces garbage but since people have no where else to go for news the ratings will be there regardless of the quality.
 
I wouldn't say that CBS's news outlets are garbage. WINS and WCBS-AM are both excellent at what they do.

I can't believe people are upset that a half-assed not even fully voice-tracked rock station run from another city is going away. Sure it was some of the music, but it wasn't really much of anything. A souless jukebox is gone, big deal.

If Merlin had kept the rock format in place and fixed it, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
 
They bring nothing new to the table. I want to slash my wrists after more than 15 minutes listening to those stations. I can listen to an hour of news from a shortwave outlet and not get bored. There is a big problem with quality if I can listen to a shortwave station for longer or the low powered AM station here in the Rockland County rather than suffer through 15 minutes of WINS or WCBS.

PS- Those two stations are not made to be listened to for an hour. The idea is to tune in for 15-25 minutes and get the local news/traffic/weather/stocks/national stories. It's formatted to fit the listening style of most of the audience. You're an outlier. I listen to shortwave radio too, but I'm in the vast minority of radio listeners. Most don't know what shortwave is.

What do you expect WINS and WCBS to do? Long form news is available on WNYC if you want it.
 
mikerock said:
1. Name a CBS property in NY that plays a variety of artists, new music and information from the talent?

"Variety" as explained in interviews with listeners is not "a lot of songs in the library". Variety is the absence of mediocre or bad songs and all songs "that I like".

As measured by minute-by-minute audience flows in all 48 PPM markets, new music tends to drive off listeners (with the possible exception of new songs by superstar artists) and new music by new artists is even more risky. So stations that play currents limit the number of new songs to those with strong probabilities of becoming hits or until such time as they "break out" in other markets or other media.

Many stations play no new music, because they are, like CBS-FM, specifically formatted to play hits from a specific era in the past. Many others only play a small number of currents, like traditional AC stations.

Like new music, the PPM shows that excessive DJ talk and needless or irrelevant "information" is a huge, huge turnoff for listeners. Many of us in programming were under the delusion that listeners wanted a lot of "personality" because personality seemed to work in the diary survey; that isn't true now that we have a ratings system where the most important factor is not listener's ability to remember.

2. Name a CBS property where the talent is actually allowed to speak?

Obviously you think jabbering and yammering is "speaking freely". In this day and age, it has been proven over and over and over (did I say "over"?) that listeners don't want motor-mouthed DJs on CHR stations... they want brief raps or mixes with no talk. On other formats, they want really brief talk with useful lifestyle or other information. Only in formats mostly appealing to those over 50 does the old-style DJ have any appeal... and to many in that "senior segment" chatterbox jocks are old school and a thing of the past.

3. If YES to #1 or #2 then name a CBS property where the talent speaks and is not reading the same text he just read 5 minutes ago like a mindless automaton or some silly one liner?

You don't give the CBS programmers credit for having live talent on the air, even in markets like Palm Springs, which is not even a Top 100 market. And you certainly don't recognize the fact that major stations... not even just the CBS ones... talk to listeners and know how much talk is appropriate and they enforce the dictate of giving listeners what they want and how they like it.

4. If you picked WFAN: People complaining all day about an athlete not throwing the ball far enough is not bringing anything interesting or new to the table.

But you obviously don't know that the same thing that makes guys talk about sports over a beer or at a bar makes them really like this very thing that you find so distasteful. For gosh sakes, WFAN is a sports station, and that translates into "a guy talk station".

As far as games this is not the old days where we do not have TV's or internet to watch the games. Bringing that format to FM and eliminating a format only increases the lack of variety we have in NY. It was completely un-necessary and is devaluing their 660 AM property.

You are missing the point that AM is unappealing to younger "sales demo" listeners, and many under-55's don't go to AM ever or only when they can't find what they want on FM... like play by play. Moving a sports format to FM, as CBS found when their "doing OK" AM sports station in Detroit became, as often as not, the #1 station of any kind in the Motor City.
 
WNTIRadio said:
I wouldn't say that CBS's news outlets are garbage. WINS and WCBS-AM are both excellent at what they do.

I can't believe people are upset that a half-assed not even fully voice-tracked rock station run from another city is going away. Sure it was some of the music, but it wasn't really much of anything. A souless jukebox is gone, big deal.

We get it. You hate Alternative music. You've really done nothing but try to bash it since launch. You're quick to jump all over anyone that posts anything supportive. It's kind sad as if you have an axe to grind. I guess non-commers are just bitter these days. Donations down or something? You clearly have ZERO understanding of the format or its audience in 2012,

If Merlin had kept the rock format in place and fixed it, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The irony is your comments are so out of touch with reality you're only embarrassing yourself, and this just proves it.
 
DavidEduardo said:
mikerock said:
1. Name a CBS property in NY that plays a variety of artists, new music and information from the talent?

"Variety" as explained in interviews with listeners is not "a lot of songs in the library". Variety is the absence of mediocre or bad songs and all songs "that I like".

As measured by minute-by-minute audience flows in all 48 PPM markets, new music tends to drive off listeners (with the possible exception of new songs by superstar artists) and new music by new artists is even more risky. So stations that play currents limit the number of new songs to those with strong probabilities of becoming hits or until such time as they "break out" in other markets or other media.

Many stations play no new music, because they are, like CBS-FM, specifically formatted to play hits from a specific era in the past. Many others only play a small number of currents, like traditional AC stations.

RXP's ratings in just a few short months with no promotion prove otherwise. The format was heavy in currents with a wide variety of artists.

DavidEduardo said:
Like new music, the PPM shows that excessive DJ talk and needless or irrelevant "information" is a huge, huge turnoff for listeners. Many of us in programming were under the delusion that listeners wanted a lot of "personality" because personality seemed to work in the diary survey; that isn't true now that we have a ratings system where the most important factor is not listener's ability to remember.

2. Name a CBS property where the talent is actually allowed to speak?

Obviously you think jabbering and yammering is "speaking freely". In this day and age, it has been proven over and over and over (did I say "over"?) that listeners don't want motor-mouthed DJs on CHR stations... they want brief raps or mixes with no talk. On other formats, they want really brief talk with useful lifestyle or other information. Only in formats mostly appealing to those over 50 does the old-style DJ have any appeal... and to many in that "senior segment" chatterbox jocks are old school and a thing of the past.

No I do believe that and was in no way pushing for irrelevant mindless yammering. In my posts I call CBS out for when they do talk it is in fact irrelevant and a huge turn off. WAXQ keeps it short and they are doing quite well in the ratings. WXPK provides the necessary information in an intelligent way and keep it short. They are doing well enough in the Hudson Valley.

Name any music format owned by CBS Radio that when the talent do talk they are saying something relevant? This is the same for the news stations. The hosts are sterile.
 
WRXP rose in the ratings the last few months because it was so far in the hole, there was no where to go but up. As much as you like rock and the format they were executing, WRXP in it's present form, even properly programmed by CBS, wouldn't pay the bills. If rock was a viable format in New York, someone would be doing it besides Q104.3. ...but it's not. They bought that property to keep WFAN as one of the top billers in the country. And as for your comments that they are de-valuing AM660? Ha.... That signal is still incredibly valuable. Especially when CBS is launching it's own national sports radio network 2 months from now and will want clearance in the nations #1 market.

Like I said, if new rock was worth the investment in New York, someone would do it. In this case, it probably should have never re-appeared on the 101.9 frequency. Blame the idiots at Merlin for getting you all excited.
 
billalm said:
WRXP rose in the ratings the last few months because it was so far in the hole, there was no where to go but up.

In just that short time it tied WXRK in NYC and handily beat them in the Nassau/Suffolk PPM. That is with no promotion and starting from the very bottom of the ratings.
 
mikerock said:
Many stations play no new music, because they are, like CBS-FM, specifically formatted to play hits from a specific era in the past. Many others only play a small number of currents, like traditional AC stations.

RXP's ratings in just a few short months with no promotion prove otherwise. The format was heavy in currents with a wide variety of artists.

"Currents" are not the same thing as "new music".

WRXP did not, upon examination of MediaBase, have any more new music than any other alternative station, on average. In fact, it has a bit less than most.

Of course, I explained that some formats play lots of currents, while others play few, or none, depending on the demographic target and format. You seem not to have noticed that part of my post.

Alternative tends to generally have a good amount of currents. CHR may have more, AC has less. But blaming CBS for not playing lots of "new music" ignores the fact that some of its formats are those that can't play new releases or even currents.

Name any music format owned by CBS Radio that when the talent do talk they are saying something relevant? This is the same for the news stations. The hosts are sterile.

You are mixing your personal opinion or taste in an analysis of highly successful radio stations... successful whether we use billings or ratings or both to measure success.

The CBS news stations are designed to be used for very brief periods... generally around 15 minutes. Since the average listening span per tune-in "incident" in PPM for all types of stations is something around 11 or 12 minutes, those short-span news formats are a beautiful match for the way most people use radio.

If you listen to CBS-FM, you find a very classic Top 40 style... most fitting for that format. If you listen to other stations in their cluster or in other markets, the talk is quite well tailored to the lifestyle of listeners. And you can bet they invest a lot in perceptual research to make sure they are "people pleasing" within the target audience groups of each of their stations.
 
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