Dighton Rockhead said:
You sure? Better open this link...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zesLUS1D2K8Similar
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You sure? Better open this link...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zesLUS1D2K8Similar
FredLeonard said:
Fred, good point about Welk being a singular, and puzzling example, of PBS focusing on one legacy of early TV to the exclusion of others. I wish I had a satisfactory explanation, but I think we might have some clues from my memory of Welk's broadcast history.
All I remember about it was that the PBS version, packaged by Oklahoma ETV (one of the most conservative states in the nation, which ought to tell you something), debuted circa 1987, about five years after the syndie version, that began in '71 after ABC dropped it to accommodate the Prime Time Access Rule for local stations on Saturdays, finally folded up shop. The fact that shows like that got a foothold was due primarily to Reagan-era budget cuts and pressures on CPB to re-orient programming away from the stereotypical "limousine liberal," high-brow niche that PBS (and before then, National Educational Television) had occupied ever since LBJ's Great Society expanded what had been a medium for classroom instruction into "public" television. In other words, it would have never happened during the Nixon, Ford, or Carter administrations, when the CPB was better funded by Congress and thus had more insulation against Congressional and presidential pressure. To get directly to my point, Welk reruns were probably proposed as a means of appeasing the GOP by going after that most conservative of demographics, then as now, the elderly. OETA historically administered by strongly conservative politicians, stepped up to package, whereas the likes of WGBH Boston, WNET New York, and WETA Washington would have not done so even to save the system.
A good website to learn more about pubcasting history is www.current.org, a trade periodical, that would fill in the rest of the story after Reagan.
Now for the pledge drive phenomenon, I can tell you for certain the answer to your question is a resounding "no," at least in recent years. I first remember the drives as a kid in the late 1970s, when there was a tolerable mix of typical PBS fare and "special," more mass-cult programs (e.g., country music, documentaries about famous figures). But, relating to what I just said, these proved ineffective in getting more than an over-50 audience to pledge. As the Reagan cuts kicked in by the 1980s, the network and stations felt a need to get more aggressive, and thus began to tip the balance toward the dreck that serves as mainly an aggravation to the network's devotees twice, and sometimes more, per year. If you would look at the skeds on the national feed from year to year beginning circa 1982, you would see what I mean.
Another way I figured out that pledge drives were intended to pick the pockets of non-regular viewers who otherwise wouldn't touch PBS (except for its beloved children's programming, of course) was something that I didn't figure out until years later. I remember distinctly that whenever PBS broadcast the debate format of William F. Buckley, Jr.'s "Firing Line," it was almost always scheduled on the Monday evenings, the day after, the drives ended. From that, I gathered that the net did so in order to extend, in effect, a token of appreciation to the cultured, "high-brow" audience for putting up with the mass-appeal junk for the previous two weeks or so. If that had not been the case, the debates would have aired during "Firing Line's" normal slots (which varied from place to place) on weekends, or perhaps during the drives themselves. Since that didn't happen, it suggested strongly to me, by means of elimination, that PBS made a distinction between hard-cores and outliers, if you will. And sadly, there appears to be no end in sight to the "prostitution," leading me to change my long-held views in support of public television. Even without the philosophical objection people on the right make toward public broadcasting's very existence, I think that, in times of severe governmental distress, it is probably a luxury that the American taxpayer cannot afford anymore. And I'm going to leave it at that; others of you may make of it what you will.
Mark_Giardina said:
Robin Williams had something similar in his early routines of imitating Welk going "Tank you boys, get down, get funky!!!" I'll see if I can find that on You Tube. ;D
Somebody must have liked "The Lawrence Welk Show"; why else would it have run for 27 years??
It's my understanding that the show ended in 1982 not because of low ratings, but because Welk wanted to retire (although he subsequently taped new introductions to shows taped in color from 1965 through 1982 that were rerun for a few years in the mid 1980's under the title "Memories With Lawrence Welk").
It's my understanding that the show ended in 1982 not because of low ratings, but because Welk wanted to retire (although he subsequently taped new introductions to shows taped in color from 1965 through 1982 that were rerun for a few years in the mid 1980's under the title "Memories With Lawrence Welk").
F
FredLeonard
Guest
It's easy to forget that for a quarter century before he went on network television, Lawrence Welk's orchestra was touring big band playing hotel ball rooms, mostly in the mid-west. His orchestra during the 30s and 40s played what was called "sweet music" in contrast to the "hot bands" or "swing bands," better remembered today like Benny Goodman, the Dorsey Brothers, Harry James and other groups which played in a jazz style and whose arrangements "covered" those of Black bands. Even then, Welk was square. His music style was then more associated with Guy Lombardo.
Welk's re-runs are produced and distributed by Oklahoma Educational Television, so conservative they still call themselves "educational television," 45 years after the Carnegie Commission introduced the term "public television."
For the record: What I'd like to see public television stations do is re-run the prime time schedule during the overnight period for Tivo and other DVR users.
Welk's re-runs are produced and distributed by Oklahoma Educational Television, so conservative they still call themselves "educational television," 45 years after the Carnegie Commission introduced the term "public television."
For the record: What I'd like to see public television stations do is re-run the prime time schedule during the overnight period for Tivo and other DVR users.
Alice Lon was the "Champagne Lady" who Welk fired in July 1959, with Welk saying, "Cheesecake does not fit our show." Lon was diplomatic, but obviously irritated, saying, "All I did was sit on a desk and cross my legs. That's the way a lady sits down." Welk got hammered with negative letters, and supposedly tried to hire her back, but Lon moved on and Norma Zimmer became the new "Lady" in early 1961.
Welk had a reputation for letting people walk rather than increasing their pay, the Lennon Sisters being the most prominent example. He also kept a tight rein on things, as Pete Fountain found out when he tried to liven up a Christmas Carol.
Welk had a reputation for letting people walk rather than increasing their pay, the Lennon Sisters being the most prominent example. He also kept a tight rein on things, as Pete Fountain found out when he tried to liven up a Christmas Carol.
Lots of people like classic broadway. It's not just elderly people who think Beyonce having oral sex with herself in videos is stupid.
jfrancispastirchak said:
Just saw the YouTube link...and YUP!...I stand by what I posted. An extra-special guest appearance by one of the cleanest funny men God ever created does not invalidate Welk's rule of "No Comics". You can bet your bottom dollar Welk would not have had any of the popular comics of the day (1971) on the show.
Yup....I stand by my post.
From what I have read the original question of who watches and pledges $$ for the Lawrence Welk show on PBS has not been answered. Of course my parents watched and yours did too. But my parents are dead and wouldn't had pledged any $$ anyway. I am now the age that they were while they enjoyed his Saturday night show. I was hiding under the bed with pillows over my ears so I couldn't hear it. So anyone that did enjoy his show back in these days would be very elderly. Yes, I am sure Lawrence Welk is still very popular in nursing homes. I am guessing that there must be some kind of foundation set up so the program can still air. It may have been set up by Mr Welk himself. He was a very good businessman. I, personally don't know anyone that has ever pledged a cent to keep the Welk show on my local PBS station.
My parents, both departed from these shores, were born in 1917 (my father) and 1918 (my mother). To make a long story short, you could not PAY them to watch Lawrence Welk! If the set was on his channel when the show started, they would turn the set so fast your eyes didn't have time to blink.
Since I obviously didn't watch as a kid, I would go to school the following Monday, and the custom was for everyone to ask what they saw on TV over the weekend. Of course, a lot of kids complained that they had to watch Lawrence Welk because of their parents or even grandparents. I used to wonder how bad the show was for them to get all of these complaints. It took me soooo long to find out, and I found out!
An earlier post referred to tap dancer Arthur Duncan. On some reruns, I've seen Lawrence Welk and other cast members say things like "That boy can sure dance!" or some sentence with the word "boy" in it. How he didn't slug someone is beyond me. I wouldn't have blamed him if he had.
The late Gregory Hines said in an interview that he worshipped the ground Arthur Duncan danced on. He would watch the Welk show faithfully just to see Duncan. I do believe that they worked together later on.
Since I obviously didn't watch as a kid, I would go to school the following Monday, and the custom was for everyone to ask what they saw on TV over the weekend. Of course, a lot of kids complained that they had to watch Lawrence Welk because of their parents or even grandparents. I used to wonder how bad the show was for them to get all of these complaints. It took me soooo long to find out, and I found out!
An earlier post referred to tap dancer Arthur Duncan. On some reruns, I've seen Lawrence Welk and other cast members say things like "That boy can sure dance!" or some sentence with the word "boy" in it. How he didn't slug someone is beyond me. I wouldn't have blamed him if he had.
The late Gregory Hines said in an interview that he worshipped the ground Arthur Duncan danced on. He would watch the Welk show faithfully just to see Duncan. I do believe that they worked together later on.
From what I understand is when they show the pledge shows of Lawrence Welk it's the specials on DVD that they show on PBS that they offer and not the original shows themselves. They also get you one way or another with their so called pledge drives as an example for $100 you get a DVD and a cup or something of that nature. I probably think that there are some rich people that pay out big money for that type of stuff sort of like those begathons like The 700 Club and the Sunday religious shows.
Braves2005 said:
B2005, see my post on the first page of this thread concerning what "they get you one way or another with." The trade euphemism for those items is "premiums." Now, having done some research since my original claim, while Home Shopping Network had its origins on a Florida radio station in the 1970s, I am sure either or both of the founders, Bud Paxson and Roy Speer, paid notice while watching a pledge drive one night. One of them likely said to himself, "Hey! What we did on the radio can be done on TV! If a government-supported channel can do it, why can't businessmen like us?" That's how innovations often occur in this land of the free and home of the brave (no pun intended).
Pubcasting, like many governmental operations of all kinds, has a load of euphemisms or jargon to gussy up things that would otherwise be perceived by the public as crass or ignoble. Another fine example: "underwriting," which means sponsorship. Lately, though, some stations, both PBS and NPR, have dropped the pretense and begun calling it by its real name, figuring that nobody cares anymore about niceties like that, since practically everybody with even an inkling of intelligence (certainly 100% of the PBS audience) has figured it out anyway. Things like that were much more easily concealed in the pre-internet days, too.
I'll bet you even money that if the CPB or whoever conceived of the giveaway approach to fundraising could have foreseen what it would become, it would have never happened. They reckoned that viewers would understand the peculiar nature of the strategy and leave it at that. Also, remember that in the 1970s, unlike the decades that followed, NGO leaders typically had a pronounced liberal, anti-commercial bias (some still do, but not as many as then), and many thought that most Americans shared that attitude, especially PBS viewers. They thought the 1960s cultural changes were permanent ones, and that the future lay with public broadcasting having a close parity with the traditional networks. So CPB/PBS honchos didn't really perceive the hypocrisy in using capitalist hooks to bolster an operation whose entire premise was to supplant one of private enterprise's driving engines, advertising on commercial broadcasting. They thought it was all right and didn't matter since they, the "Enlightened," did it and not the grubby, low-class, right-wing snake oil salesmen on CBS, ABC, NBC, and local stations. I've got one word that fits this whole paradigm: hubris.
Sorry for the tirade here, and a special apology to those readers who work, or have worked, in public broadcasting. I do not mean to impugn in the slightest your noble work. In fact, I feel badly for you all as many of you have put up for many years with poor political and managerial leadership. And oftentimes you feel the brunt of the animosity of public opinion that should be directed instead toward Congress and the CPB, for staying stuck in the ways of the 70s/80s while our media environment zooms on. Again, pardon my anger; I personally thank you for all the hard work you have done for these many years.
Hey, Paulie's mother (on The Sopranos) was watching it when he came to apologize for snubbing her.therealjm12 said:
Have to correct everybody; there was a second (though not as
prominent as Art Duncan) African-American on the show, drummer
Paul Humphreys, who was on from 1976 to 1982, and is perhaps
best remembered for "Cool Aid," by Paul Humphreys and His Cool-Aid
Chemists, in 1971.
I've heard of people as young as their 40s saying they watch Welk
(1) because there's nothing else on at that time on Saturday nights,
and (2) because they know they're not going to be shocked by any
crude language or lyrics. I do know one woman (whom I've dated) in
her 40s who constantly criticizes the tacky clothes and hairdos of the
'70s shows. For my part, I generally don't watch Welk unless it's one
of the black-and-white kinescopes from the '50s (I'm a lifelong fan of
Pete Fountain and think Alice Lon far more entertaining than Norma Zimmer).
But if you want to come down to a plausible reason for Welk's continued presence
on PBS, one manager once said that it was part of PBS's mandate to put on programs
shunned by the commercial networks (namely, shows appealing to kids and over-50s);
here in North Carolina, we used to get Tennessee Ernie Ford's 1950s primetime show on
UNC-TV (in addition to Welk); South Carolina ETV used to carry "The Best Of The Ed
Sullivan Show" as lead-in to Welk; other PBS stations have carried Jack Benny, Burns
and Allen, and "You Bet Your Life." Maybe more '50s/'60s favorites like those would ease
the criticism about Welk; at least there'd be more balance in scheduling older shows.
One other problem: so many of the great variety shows of the '50s: Berle, Caesar, Steve
Allen, etc., have been almost totally destroyed and there are probably not enough episodes
of their shows to make long-running series. Welk saved everything (even his first ABC
show from July 2, 1955) and there are more than 1000 of his shows available; I know of
no one who specialized in live television who left that much of a treasure trove except
Sullivan (and so many of the acts who appeared on his show are dated now) and Mark
Goodson, who--posthumously--has been a large supplier of shows to GSN.
What might be fun would be something like WBTV, the CBS affiliate in Charlotte, did in
the '70s and early '80s. For their 25th anniversary in 1974, they wiped out practically
all of primetime and aired shows from the '50s and '60s; the result, that fall, was a late-
Friday-night mix of shows baby boomers would recall: "Dobie Gillis," "Our Miss Brooks,"
"The Millionaire," "Sergeant Preston Of The Yukon," "The Phil Silvers Show" (Sgt. Bilko),
"The Outer Limits," "Love That Bob!" (Bob Cummings), and some really old things like
"Boston Blackie." I don't know if all those shows could work today; some PBS station
might have to change some of the shows airing in such a block, but again, I think it
would appeal to those of us "geezers" who were born in the '50s and who would like
a little more nostalgia than what Welk gives us. (You'll never get the current generation
to watch these things; they're all in black and white and kids are resistant to anything
not in color.)
prominent as Art Duncan) African-American on the show, drummer
Paul Humphreys, who was on from 1976 to 1982, and is perhaps
best remembered for "Cool Aid," by Paul Humphreys and His Cool-Aid
Chemists, in 1971.
I've heard of people as young as their 40s saying they watch Welk
(1) because there's nothing else on at that time on Saturday nights,
and (2) because they know they're not going to be shocked by any
crude language or lyrics. I do know one woman (whom I've dated) in
her 40s who constantly criticizes the tacky clothes and hairdos of the
'70s shows. For my part, I generally don't watch Welk unless it's one
of the black-and-white kinescopes from the '50s (I'm a lifelong fan of
Pete Fountain and think Alice Lon far more entertaining than Norma Zimmer).
But if you want to come down to a plausible reason for Welk's continued presence
on PBS, one manager once said that it was part of PBS's mandate to put on programs
shunned by the commercial networks (namely, shows appealing to kids and over-50s);
here in North Carolina, we used to get Tennessee Ernie Ford's 1950s primetime show on
UNC-TV (in addition to Welk); South Carolina ETV used to carry "The Best Of The Ed
Sullivan Show" as lead-in to Welk; other PBS stations have carried Jack Benny, Burns
and Allen, and "You Bet Your Life." Maybe more '50s/'60s favorites like those would ease
the criticism about Welk; at least there'd be more balance in scheduling older shows.
One other problem: so many of the great variety shows of the '50s: Berle, Caesar, Steve
Allen, etc., have been almost totally destroyed and there are probably not enough episodes
of their shows to make long-running series. Welk saved everything (even his first ABC
show from July 2, 1955) and there are more than 1000 of his shows available; I know of
no one who specialized in live television who left that much of a treasure trove except
Sullivan (and so many of the acts who appeared on his show are dated now) and Mark
Goodson, who--posthumously--has been a large supplier of shows to GSN.
What might be fun would be something like WBTV, the CBS affiliate in Charlotte, did in
the '70s and early '80s. For their 25th anniversary in 1974, they wiped out practically
all of primetime and aired shows from the '50s and '60s; the result, that fall, was a late-
Friday-night mix of shows baby boomers would recall: "Dobie Gillis," "Our Miss Brooks,"
"The Millionaire," "Sergeant Preston Of The Yukon," "The Phil Silvers Show" (Sgt. Bilko),
"The Outer Limits," "Love That Bob!" (Bob Cummings), and some really old things like
"Boston Blackie." I don't know if all those shows could work today; some PBS station
might have to change some of the shows airing in such a block, but again, I think it
would appeal to those of us "geezers" who were born in the '50s and who would like
a little more nostalgia than what Welk gives us. (You'll never get the current generation
to watch these things; they're all in black and white and kids are resistant to anything
not in color.)
I would say that "The Lawrence Welk Show" received by far its highest ratings during its syndicated years (1971-82), much like "Hee Haw" did during roughly the same era. In fact, when LW did go off the air in '82, it was still drawing ratings high enough that today such a ratings share would represent "Judge Judy" or "Wheel of Fortune" numbers. The audience was there for the show to continue for another 4 or 5 years had Welk chosen to do so; he ended it on his own terms when he was ready to end it.
Therefore, if you had young adults, teens, etc. exposed to the show or watching it religiously in 1982, there might well be theoretically big fans of the show that might be only in their late 30's or early 40's. Further, if I am not mistaken these shows were bicycled, thus in a few markets the last new LW's might not have aired until 1984 or 1985. So while the bulk of LW's fans are at least 60 years old now and most likely in their 80's, there is possibly a significant amount of younger viewers that are watching the show. And perhaps people in their teens and 20's have recently discovered LW as an alternative to the musical diarrhea that people like Bruno Mars and Taylor Swift force down the public's throats these days.
In other words, stereotyping the LW fan base as senior citizens at the youngest may be an enormous miscalculation, since I am 35 and enjoy the program on PBS myself. And I'm a conservative too so I'm not the prototypical PBS target audience.
Therefore, if you had young adults, teens, etc. exposed to the show or watching it religiously in 1982, there might well be theoretically big fans of the show that might be only in their late 30's or early 40's. Further, if I am not mistaken these shows were bicycled, thus in a few markets the last new LW's might not have aired until 1984 or 1985. So while the bulk of LW's fans are at least 60 years old now and most likely in their 80's, there is possibly a significant amount of younger viewers that are watching the show. And perhaps people in their teens and 20's have recently discovered LW as an alternative to the musical diarrhea that people like Bruno Mars and Taylor Swift force down the public's throats these days.
In other words, stereotyping the LW fan base as senior citizens at the youngest may be an enormous miscalculation, since I am 35 and enjoy the program on PBS myself. And I'm a conservative too so I'm not the prototypical PBS target audience.
F
FredLeonard
Guest
The Welk Show ceased production in 1982 but before public television the re-runs of the show continued in syndication.
FredLeonard said:
Glad you brought that up, Fred, because many of us weren't aware of it. No station in either of the two markets that I watched back then, Nashville or Huntsville-Decatur, Alabama, carried the reruns, which is somewhat surprising, since I was living in the tradition-minded "Heart of Dixie" with many older residents who fondly remembered Welk. But then again, their fave on Saturday nights back in the day was "Hee Haw," not Welk, since country music and humor was the overwhelming entertainment of choice in those parts. I imagine Welk's popularity was among city folk exclusively in the South, who thumbed their noses as "hillbilly" shows like "Hee Haw" and the Show Biz-packaged syndie country fests that ran on Saturday evenings when I was a tyke. In other words, class consciousness and snobbery that wouldn't have made sense elsewhere in the country, where generational cleavages were more important.
Would you guess the reruns ran mainly on low-rated UHFs in middle-to-major-markets? It sure sounds like something that would, with better-known stations avoiding deliberately elderly demos altogether. Back then, you could do that, but with the bulge of Baby Boomers these days and the fragmentation that has occurred, it's an entirely different story than circa 1985.
'Memories with Lawrence Welk' aired during the 1982-83 season, at least. Some markets may have re-aired those episodes the next season, but I don't think Welk did any new intros after '83. In San Francisco, KRON had aired the first-run syndicated show its last few years, and also carried 'Memories'. Presumably, the reruns aired on the same stations that had carried Welk up until '82.
Mike Stroud said:
This was the case in Phoenix. Part-time independent KNXV-15 aired it on Saturday evenings right before they "signed off" and ON-TV subscription TV signed on. At least, this was the case for the 1981-82 season (from an old Newspaper TV listing I recall). Then, just like now, the market had a number of retirement communities. The PBS station has aired Welk ever since '87.
WKNO PBS 10 in Memphis carries Welk, and they also carry Classic Gospel (Gaither reunion videos), which would also probably qualify for the same older demos on Saturday nights. As for other shows from the 50's and 60's, during the 90's they had a show called TV to Remember that carried older shows like Jack Benny, Burns and Allen, and You Bet Your Life, a lot of which are the same ones on PD DVDs now. They also had The Twilight Zone in the late 90's until Sci-Fi got exclusive rights for a few years in the early 2000's.
Later in the mid-2000's WKNO went through a season where they tried to carry more classic TV and brought back TZ and Mission Impossible, and also Matlock and Little House on the Prairie. (Newer shows, but still probably going for the older demo.) They also had movies that would normally have been on TCM on Friday and Saturday nights. Although they were mostly older shows, they were ones that would have also pulled in some younger viewers as well. This only lasted one season though. I don't know if they didn't pull in enough pledges so they were dropped, or if major donors that were TV snobs put pressure on them to take it off, but they haven't done anything more like that since.
Later in the mid-2000's WKNO went through a season where they tried to carry more classic TV and brought back TZ and Mission Impossible, and also Matlock and Little House on the Prairie. (Newer shows, but still probably going for the older demo.) They also had movies that would normally have been on TCM on Friday and Saturday nights. Although they were mostly older shows, they were ones that would have also pulled in some younger viewers as well. This only lasted one season though. I don't know if they didn't pull in enough pledges so they were dropped, or if major donors that were TV snobs put pressure on them to take it off, but they haven't done anything more like that since.
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