Lawrence Welk Is Still On: I Don't Get It

[landtuna]

Sorry, no. It was the actions of thousands of people you never heard of. People who marched, sat in, registered voters, got beaten up, jailed, lynched, fire-bombed.

Yes, there were lots of ordinary people who marched and protested for civil rights and against the Vietnam War but it was the policies of LBJ primarily who brought us his Great Society with its continuing dependance upon government handouts. It is perhaps the best example of unintended consequences in all of American history. LBJ also has to bear primary responsibility for the escalation of the war in Vietnam.

The "media darlings" responded to all of them.

The media responded because, as in the case of the war, it was bonafide news and affected a lot of people.

The Woodstock Nation was inherently selfish. The protested a war into which they were likely to be drafted but their primary concerns were sex, drugs and rock n' roll.

There is no "Woodstock Nation". These were simply people who wanted to have a good time at a concert and there were a lot more of them than the promoters anticipated. There was of course some protest rock music at Woodstock but it wasn't the primary genre. Woodstock was only a landmark because of its size but the same thing goes on multiple times per year at current venues now and doesn't get anywhere near the coverage that existed then - probably due to the president of that day who declared all out war on people who didn't agree with him.

I am a member of that generation and can tell you there were many other things that those people were concerned with other than sex, drugs and rock n roll. Like the "Silent Majority" most of us simply went about our normal business and didn't riot in the streets or burn our bras or draft cards.

But I will tell you that if the military draft were still in force during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars we would see much the same type of civil disobedience again as we did then. And for the same reasons.

 

[nomadcowatbk]

Given that the Baby Boom began in 1946, the Civil Rights Movement in 1955 and the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964, yeah. It didn't happen because of 9-18 year olds. While the oldest Boomers may have been sympathetic and vocal, it was the actions of leaders like Martin Luther King, Jr. (Born 1929) and Lyndon Johnson (born 1908) .

Sorry, no. It was the actions of thousands of people you never heard of. People who marched, sat in, registered voters, got beaten up, jailed, lynched, fire-bombed. The "media darlings" responded to all of them.

The Woodstock Nation was inherently selfish. The protested a war into which they were likely to be drafted but their primary concerns were sex, drugs and rock n' roll.

and got us into other wars

 

[BD Sullivan]

Any chance we can get back to discussing Lawrence Welk? :

 

[johnbasalla]

The overt wholesomeness of "The Lawrence Welk Show" was a positive thing. Could we say it was a unique wholesomeness, even in its day?

 

[visaman]

I was watching a thing on PBS about Mel Brooks, and he said that when he was writing for the Caesar Show, they were consistently beaten in the ratings by The Lawrence Welk Show. ;D

 

[nomadcowatbk]

I was watching a thing on PBS about Mel Brooks, and he said that when he was writing for the Caesar Show, they were consistently beaten in the ratings by The Lawrence Welk Show. ;D

Demographics won't important in those days, just numbers

 

[johnnya2k6]

Anchorage saw them a week late. Then other towns would see them two, three or four weeks late. Ironically enough, by the late 70s and into the early 80s, Alaskans could see cable channels live but the terrestrial networks were slower to move to satellite distribution and for several years, Alaska still got network shows on delay. They did get same-day service on the evening news, as noted, but CNN could be seen live.

What "other towns" in Alaska (besides Anchorage, Fairbanks, and Juneau)?

 

[bpatrick]

Steve Allen once said he remembered the day he picked up Variety
and on the front page was an article that NBC was canceling Caesar;
further down was an explanation that Welk on ABC was so far ahead
of Caesar in their head-to-head (9-10 PM ET on Saturday) timeslot that
NBC had no choice. Allen, as might be expected, said it was one of the
saddest days of his life: one of the medium's comedy geniuses had been
beaten by what Allen always considered a second-rate musician.

But Welk appealed to lot of people who, like himself, didn't really understand
the changes in music being unleashed by rock 'n' roll and wanted the kind of
easy-listening music they were used to. (Welk did try some contemporary things
in later years--we've already talked about "One Toke Over The Line.") Also, I think
the idea of Welk's "musical family" with himself as a father figure touched a nerve when
the concept of the family was coming under strain: divorces, women in the workplace,
more people choosing to remain single.

Yet right now Welk is attracting people as young as their 40s, who perhaps are turned
off by the likes of rap, Pink, and Lady Gaga (and catch the word "perhaps" there since
it's just a theory). And you might be surprised at how many of them say they're learning
about some of the 20th century's great composers; last week's show, for example, was
a salute to George Gershwin. It's also one of the few shows left on television where you
know you're not going to see or hear anything offensive (the issue of the length of Alice
Lon's dresses was a lot to do about nothing, IMO), and more people than you think appreciate
that.

No, I don't think Welk and the boys were the world's greatest musicians (although he hired
a number of musicians who were thrown out of work when the big bands died), but he did
the most vital thing for television success: he connected with a substantial part of the
audience (just like Ed Sullivan, Dick Clark, Johnny Carson, Oprah, and many others). The ability to
do that is something you either have or you don't. And it looks to me, judging from his popularity
on PBS, that Welk is still connecting some twenty years after he left our mortal coil.

Or to put it another way, to quote Castleman and Podrazik: "He might not have done much, but
what he did, he did very, very well."

 

[FredLeonard]

If you check the network schedules, you'll see that Sid Caesar (Your Show of Shows) last ran as a weekly series in the 1953-1954 season. It had suffered a serious decline in ratings the past two seasons and at this point "Mr. Saturday Night" was Jackie Gleason on CBS. In the l53-54 season, Caesar was not quite weekly; Martha Raye had the time slot one week a month. The following season (54-55), Caesar's co-star Imogene Coca had a half-hour show followed by a 90 minute show in which Donald O'Connor and Jimmy Durante alternated as hosts. In the 55-56 season, Lawrence Welk premiered but Art Linkletter on NBC (People Are Funny) kicked his butt.

If Nielsen had done demographic breakdowns, Welk wouldn't have stood a chance. In Welk's final seasons on ABC, he was again getting his butt kicked. In the final season, both Adam-12 and My Three Sons soundly beat him. In fact, My Three Sons beat him his last three seasons. Ironically, the producer of My Three Sons, Don Fedderson, is whom Welk signed with to syndicate his show when ABC cancelled. Even without demographic ratings, Welk's numbers had been slipping throughout the late 60s and there is no way he could have stood against CBS' "Saturday Night Line-up" in the 70s (Mary Tyler Moore and Bob Newhart) would have killed him. In syndication, most stations ran Welk in fringe time (most often 7pm-8pm Saturday).

Caesar, like Uncle Miltie, was cancelled (1) when TV sets became more affordable and the audience became less affluent and (2) when TV spread to smaller markets outside major cities in the Northeast.

 

[ixnay]

Thanks for reviving this thread, johnnya2k6 (who is still waiting to learn the extent of Alaskan penetration by the terrestrial networks 8).

I thinkthe idea of Welk's "musical family" with himself as a father figure touched a nerve when
the concept of the family was coming under strain: divorces, women in the workplace,
more people choosing to remain single.

Well, my mother was certainly ahead of the curve in 1961 when she and her shop teacher husband had me (their only child). When they divorced in 1968, it was probably towards the beginning of the divorce culture (my mom a few years ago said it was).

ixnay

 

[visaman]

S
Yet right now Welk is attracting people as young as their 40s, who perhaps are turned
off by the likes of rap, Pink, and Lady Gaga (and catch the word "perhaps" there since
it's just a theory). A

Thank you for saying that 40s is young Pink and Lady Gaga never appeal and they don't even try to appeal to 40 somethings.

 

[bpatrick]

Re Sid Caesar's timeslot: "Caesar's Hour" (the retooled "Your Show Of Shows"
without Imogene Coca) aired on NBC on Monday nights from 1954-56 (and I think
was beaten by Burns and Allen and "Arthur Godfrey's Talent Scouts" on CBS). In
the 1956-57 season "Caesar's Hour" was moved back to Saturday 9-10 PM (ET),
head-on against Welk. That was the year NBC canceled Caesar. He made a couple
of comeback attempts on ABC, in 1958 (with Imogene Coca) and on an alternate-week
basis with Edie Adams in 1963. Neither made it.

Interestingly, Welk's best years, ratings-wise, on ABC were in the mid- to late '60s:

1964-65 #30
1965-66 tied tor 19th with "I've Got A Secret"
1966-67 in a four-way tie for 10th with "Gomer Pyle," "The Virginian," and Ed Sullivan
1967-68 #17
1968-69 tied for 28th with "Mod Squad"

And yes, he did finish third in his timeslot in 1970-71; "Adam-12" ranked 12th (coincidence?),
and "My Three Sons" ranked 19th; Welk finished out of the top 30. But that's not why ABC
dropped him at the end of that season; ABC, like the other two networks, was dropping its
shows with older, rural appeal, and in the case of the Alphabet Network, that meant Danny
Thomas's "Make Room For Granddaddy" and two other variety shows: Johnny Cash and Pearl
Bailey.

 

[FredLeonard]

Casear's cancellation after the 1956-1957 season was not so much due to Welk, which did not do as well in the early years as it did in the mid 60s, but because Caesar did not hold onto the audience of it's lead-in, Perry Como (which won the time-slot over Jackie Gleason).

Maybe Steve Allen's comments might have been influenced by the fact that he was getting beaten on Sunday nights (Maverick and Lawman won the time slot) and was also cancelled the following season - beginning a tradition of former Tonight Show hosts crapping out in prime-time (except for the one who was smart enough not to leave the Tonight Show).

 

[landtuna]

Yet right now Welk is attracting people as young as their 40s, who perhaps are turned
off by the likes of rap, Pink, and Lady Gaga...

The only person I know who still watches Welk is my late-80's mother-in-law and she has been watching Welk since I've known her. I know of no one in their 40's (or later) who watch Welk or listen to rap, Pink or Gaga.

 

[dtuba]

I'm 47 and I listen to lots of rap music (mostly local/indie stuff, not Kanye). Pink and Gaga have a few songs I like tolerate. Lawrence Welk would be my idea of hell, much as it was when I was a kid.

But I understand FredL's original point and agree that there is plenty of heritage programming that PBS could be showing instead of Welk. Why? I don't know, I'm not in the programming department. I'm jsut a humble engineer.

 

[FredLeonard]

JLTV is running episodes of "The Dinah Shore Chevy Show," and those seem really dated. Welk, on the other hand, was out of date when it first aired and that gives the shows more of a timeless quality even now. Welk never tried to be cool. Harry Connick, Jr. or Michael Feinstein can do the same songs today (from the so-called "Great American Songbook") and sound hip but Welk is timelessly square.

Welk, or whoever picked, staged and wrote the material, seem oblivious to the lyrics. Drug references. Gay references. Labor or anti-war protest references. Somehow, good-two-shoes singers with a quaint or pretty back-drop having nothing to do with the content of the song, and what the lyrics said went over everybody's head.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

I know of no one in their 40's (or later) who watch Welk or listen to rap, Pink or Gaga.

I do. But, putting it in perspective, the appeal for me is rooted in the Welk-"effect" I mentioned here much earlier (surprised this thread re-emerged), as opposed to the quality of the music and the routines they did, which I sometimes found to be campy & schmaltzy. It certainly was not a sophisticated show. Welk simply brings me back to a much more comfortable time. For an hour or so, I feel safe again.

 

[bpatrick]

Actually, I think the timeslot leader at 9 PM Saturdays in 1956-57
(definitely in 1957-58) was Gale Storm's "Oh Susanna" on CBS.
NBC had some disasters in the 1957-58 season in the 9-10 PM
Saturday slot: Polly Bergen alternating with "Club Oasis" at 9;
Gisele MacKenzie at 9:30. Meanwhile, "Have Gun Will Travel debuted
at #4 that year, so Welk was probably running second in the timeslot.
And my guess is that he was second in the timeslot in 1956-57.

As for people in their 40s, I've dated a woman who's now 43 and is a
Welk fan. Her complaint about the show is not the music, but the clothes
and hairstyles from the '70s shows. I have to explain to her, since she was
a child and I was moving into my 20s at the time, that wide ties and lapels
were fashionable for men, while I remember some bouffant hairdos, a few women
with long hair trying to imitate Cher, and--later in the decade--the Dorothy Hamill
look.

Yeah, Welk was corny, but then again, what about "Hee Haw"? Yet RFD-TV seems
to find an audience for it on Sunday nights (not a big one, I'm sure, since it's not
exactly the biggest cable network); at least the music (although I detest country),
which is always presented straight, is palatable and, most of the time, contemporary
for the era.

Personally, I think there will always be an audience for both shows--if only because,
to paraphrase landtuna, they take us back to a much more comfortable time.

 

[SteveRichards]

Yeah, Welk was corny, but then again, what about "Hee Haw"? Yet RFD-TV seems
to find an audience for it on Sunday nights (not a big one, I'm sure, since it's not
exactly the biggest cable network); at least the music (although I detest country),
which is always presented straight, is palatable and, most of the time, contemporary
for the era.

I've always thought that one of the reasons "Hee Haw" lasted as long as it did was because the music was always contemporary for its time. By the mid-1980s (and probably long before that), the schtick on "Hee Haw" was pretty worn out, but you could always count on top-flight country music. For all intensive purposes, Welk was pretty much stuck in the '40s, music-wise.

And talk about going from one extreme to the other. When Welk's show went off the air, it seemed like a good number of stations replaced it with "Solid Gold." I wonder what Lawrence thought about the Solid Gold Dancers?

 

[bpatrick]

I think most critics, and probably most viewers, would agree with
you that "Hee Haw"'s saving grace was the music, and I'm personally
convinced--just on the basis of instinct--that that's the reason most
of its fans tuned in.

As for what Welk would think of the Solid Gold Dancers, that's a good
question. After all, he claimed he fired Alice Lon because she wore her
dresses too short (and they weren't even above the knee!); I suspect
the Solid Gold women would have put him in a state of near-apoplexy--
if he even bothered to watch.

One of the Lennon Sisters, asked why they left Welk's show, said that
he didn't understand the music coming out in the '60s, citing specifically
the Beatles and Stevie Wonder. Fast forward to the early '80s, when "Solid
Gold" debuted; I doubt if he'd understand Andy Gibb either.

But the bottom line is: Welk never consciously tried to appeal to the under-50
audience; only once did he get teenagers to listen to him, and that was when
"Calcutta" went to number one on the Billboard charts in 1961 (it does have something
resembling a rock 'n' roll beat). Although he hired younger performers in the '70s, they
were still under his thumb; MOR songs were OK, but not out-and-out rock. I think,
though, that what viewers in their 40s and 50s he has (not in overwhelming numbers,
but they're there) share the following characteristics: they watched the show as
children with their parents in the '60s or '70s, completely avoided it once they hit their
teens, and have now settled down to the point that the music goes down better.

I'll never say Welk was a great musician; among his contemporaries I prefer Glenn Miller
and Tommy Dorsey. But Dorsey failed on television with "Stage Show" (co-hosted with
brother Jimmy), and Miller didn't live to get on television. What Welk had, as I said in
an earlier posting, was the ability to connect--enough of the audience liked him that he
was able to stay on national television for 27 years--and there have been plenty of
people with even less performing talent (Ed Sullivan at the top of the list) who have made
the same mysterious connection with their viewers. And as I said before, it's something
you either have or you don't.