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Leave Rock 104 alone!!!!

V

vadar

Guest
Leave Rock 104 alone! It sounds better than most Active Rockers in the entire country. Just because WUFT and WRUF-AM are clunkers, doesn't mean they need to screw around with Rock 104. All the money they are wasting on these genius consultants is a waste. Quit whining about Lex & Terry, great fit on a great radio station.

The other article/editorial in the Gainesville Sun seriously implied that its time to look at Rock 104. Look at it for what? They have the best format, the best stick and have been an icon to Florida radio since 1981.

Geez, can't we leave well enough alone?
 
The more I talk to folks around town, I think this bit about re-evaluating Rock 104 is all talk.

If it's not... I believe whatever changes they want will hurt the station.

-Flip the format? You can flip those ad-dollars to the other guys in town.
-Drop Lex&Terry? Drop those high-dollar spots.

I think you see where I am going. Only time will tell... IF Rock does make a mistake and change something. I see WIND-FM and The Buzz benefiting.
 
Yeah sure, there's lots of Rock in North Central Florida. But, again nobody does it better than Rock 104. The BEST signal, the better format and the better execution. Plus, Gator football on the 100k boomer.

WIND FM is ok, same old 200 classic rock songs crammed into not 1, not 2, but 3 different frequencies. Are you kidding me? And the Buzz, nothing special here, fills a niche but very poor stick and no personality.

If you are an Account Executive selling for WRUF-FM (ROCK 104) you should be proud of this heritage rocker and be able to bill like crazy. Stay focused and who cares what the Dean of the J School and the consultants think......:)
 
Jeff said:
According to the Gainesville Sun, a couple of legislators have written UF complaining about Lex and Terry on Rock 104.


http://chalkboard.blogs.gainesville.com/11184/
Click to expand...

I agree that Rock 104 should drop Lex & Terry. UF students are perfectly capable of being every bit as offensive as L&T. Turn a couple of 19-year old Florida students loose--or better yet an ensemble cast of 8 or 10 19-year old guys--and tell 'em "Anything goes!" It'd be a riot!
 
LEX AND TERRY SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM ROCK 104 RIGHT NOW!!!!

A station owned and operated by an Educational institute should use it to TEACH.

Sure, these kids may end up working someplace with a Syndicated morning show... don't teach them that by HAVING one, just simply explain how radio is and that they are out there and exist.

These kids are paying good money, give them all the tools they need to succeed. Help mold the next all-star air personality. Don't pipe in someone. Huge injustice UF, HUGE.

You're an embarrassment to the FL educational systems TeleCom courses and stripping a hurting industry from potentially useful, talented and passionate talent.

I hope someone from UF reads this and stops screwing their students. Be more concerned with teaching then making as much money as possible.

Yes, they need to be exposed to an operation of a commercial radio station, but do it with these kids who WANT to learn.

Radio is a talent and passion you're born with and can never shake. You, yes, YOU UF Admin. are a poor excuse for role models.
 
Interesting thoughts. Now my UF branding may jade my thinking a little, but let's not forget that UF also operates several non-commercial stations which students can also participate in. In terms of maintaining Lex and Terry on the station, well, I think that comes down to how we feel about the station being operated as a commercial station which actually does attempt to generate as much revenues as possible; in other words, the UF admin cares as much about ratings with this property as any other radio station operator in town. The same is not true for the non-commercial stations the school operates. Taking that one step further, we are sort of asking the question- does Rock 104 exist as a teaching tool, or does it exist to generate revenue for UF?

Sure, there is a lot of merit to the argument that the government should not be competing in the private sector, but this is pretty much the norm these days. I'm reminded of this when I'm getting 3rd party advertisements from the USPS after I switch my mailing address, hear about the latest in the automakers sector, or read about how many tax dollars are spent funding NFL stadiums. Heck, the state of Florida now operates the Weeki Wachi water park. No, that doesn't make it right, but the Rock 104 scenario is hardly the exception to the rule.

I'm sure we can agree that L&T is on the station because it's the most profitable choice. Should the station drop them as a matter of principle- to replace them by broadcasting major students (even if the content would not be very much different)? Sure they should, if a penny of tax money was directly funding the station, however, the station is self supported (at least it was the last time I checked), and there are other stations that those students can learn on.
 
I expect that L & T are on the station because they produce ratings, however, it has not always been this way. WRUF-FM had a live, student, morning show for many years and still did okay in the ratings. On balance, I'd agree that teaching students is probably more important than whatever benefit they derive from having L & T, but who knows what factors went into that decision?

As for competing with private stations, the argument is one that I generally agree with, but WRUF may be an exception because it was on the air, operating commercially, decades before other stations. There is also a value in teaching students how to perform in a commercial setting since most will be doing so after they graduate. So, for all its flaws, and it has a lot of them, WRUF is still a pretty good example of college radio's high point.
 
WRUF is self-supporting to a point.

Anyone who can sit there and say they get NO funding from the state is naive. If they fall a little short one quarter and need something, they know where to go.

I agree, teaching them a commercial atmosphere is beneficial, but it's possible to teach them well enough to go out in the world without doing it directly hands on.

Plain and simple, while I personally don't find L&T overly offensive, I can see where the things they do would come across that way and an Educational Institution should not be the vehicle for their content.

Put it on a station NOT run by The State of Florida.

Amazing how UF admin can say they don't believe it's appropriate and against UF's policies and yet still keep it on.

If it goes against UF policy, do the same thing you would with a student... suspend or expel.
 
The sad part about this story is here's a University that actually has a "real" (not some non-comm mishmash of jazz and classical) radio station for students to work at and run... and yet they're piping in syndication which is today's radio's biggest problems. I say drop all syndication, voice tracking and whatever else they're doing at WRUF and give people that deserve air shifts a shot. If anywhere LIVE and LOCAL should be alive and well; it's at Rock 104. ...And to you Lex and Terry fans: You can still hear em on Planet Radio 107.3 AND I'll bet ya money they'd find another Gainesville/Ocala station in a heartbeat if WRUF dropped them.
 
PhDance said:
Interesting thoughts. Now my UF branding may jade my thinking a little, but let's not forget that UF also operates several non-commercial stations which students can also participate in. In terms of maintaining Lex and Terry on the station, well, I think that comes down to how we feel about the station being operated as a commercial station which actually does attempt to generate as much revenues as possible; in other words, the UF admin cares as much about ratings with this property as any other radio station operator in town. The same is not true for the non-commercial stations the school operates. Taking that one step further, we are sort of asking the question- does Rock 104 exist as a teaching tool, or does it exist to generate revenue for UF?

Sure, there is a lot of merit to the argument that the government should not be competing in the private sector, but this is pretty much the norm these days. I'm reminded of this when I'm getting 3rd party advertisements from the USPS after I switch my mailing address, hear about the latest in the automakers sector, or read about how many tax dollars are spent funding NFL stadiums. Heck, the state of Florida now operates the Weeki Wachi water park. No, that doesn't make it right, but the Rock 104 scenario is hardly the exception to the rule.

I'm sure we can agree that L&T is on the station because it's the most profitable choice. Should the station drop them as a matter of principle- to replace them by broadcasting major students (even if the content would not be very much different)? Sure they should, if a penny of tax money was directly funding the station, however, the station is self supported (at least it was the last time I checked), and there are other stations that those students can learn on.
Click to expand...

There are really two or three fairly important issues in the Rock 104 case.

One is tax liability--not for the station, but for the university. If the IRS ever decides to jump on UF, the presence of L&T and the staggering profitability of 103.7 (trust me, their operating margin is huge) could endanger the non-profit status of the entire university. By not isolating WRUF, corporately, from the rest of UF, they're playing a game of chicken with the feds that could turn out to be extraordinarily expensive--especially considering that the $3-$4 million Rock 104 is spinning off is lunch money compared to UF's billion dollar operating budget.

Two is the learning opportunity being squandered. As Rock 104 is arguably the closest parallel to "real-life" commercial radio on any college campus in America, the opportunity for UF students to produce & perform a seriously competitive morning show in a Top 100 market could be a great resume-builder & recruiting tool for the College of Communications. Instead, the "opportunity" for students is being a board-op. Or Automation Watcher. WRUF has the skills--and the money--to produce great radio on its own. They've taken the easy way out: plug in L&T and have a cup of coffee.

Third is the image of the university. If the notion is that the only way for Rock 104 to perform at a high level is to concede local control and instead choose to broadcast a program known for its toilet humor (yeah, yeah--I'm coming down hard on Lex & Terry, though I know they can be pretty damn funny), it can be interpreted as the University of Florida condoning and promoting media's worst side... and as far from UF's purported mission as humanly possible. Along the lines of "Hey, if it's okay for WRUF-FM to carry L&T, why doesn't the university have nude dancers in the university cafeterias?"
 
(Sorry, got interrupted. Sometimes work gets in the way)!

BTW, I probably overstated Rock 104's profitability above. An educated guess would put their income around $3 million annually and their real (for-profit) cash flow around $2 million. Because they are part of the larger non-profit UF structure, that $2 million gets whittled-down considerably--most likely to less than a million by the time the Comptroller's Office (or whatever it's called) gets done hiding it in one university pocket or the other. Non-profit accounting is a wonderful thing! Still, the IRS can see through this kind of shit, and if an agent shows up some day in a bad mood, they could make things pretty rough on UF.

See, making a profit is the exact opposite of what non-profits are supposed to do!!!!!

And, yeah, running WRUF-FM for the sake of raking in cash has absolutely nothing to do with the MISSION of the University of Florida, which is supposed to be EDUCATION.

This isn't a terribly difficult concept to grasp.

And from what I know about Rock 104--and, yes, I've had a very close look--and what I know about how they run that particular facility, my hunch is that it would be very easy for the IRS to tear them a new Gatorhole.

But, by the same token, given all the terrific advantages WRUF-FM has (no mortgage, no rent, a wealth of bright and eager and inexpensive bodies... and the resources to produce outstanding radio), there is absolutely no reason that they couldn't do it the right way.

The fact that they've chosen to do it the wrong way says a whole lot (and none of it positive) about the people--the adults--making the decisions for WRUF-FM at the University of Florida.
 
RNR, I think you're being a little hard on UF.

In the context of all the properties they have, two TV stations and four radio stations at last count, the College of Journalism and Communications actually offers students a whole slew of experiential learning opportunities. So blasting them because they use syndication during one daypart on one of the radio stations probably isn't fair.

Besides that, IIRC, getting 18-to-22 year old kids to get their asses out of bed at 4:30 AM Monday through Friday to do a morning radio show presents a major problem. Especially for management when their alarm clock goes off at 7 AM to the screaming silence of dead air.

Thirty years of this repeated problem may have led WRUF to Lex & Terry's doorstep.
 
Hello everyone.

I'm going to pop in here and throw out some facts since I was the one that signed WRUF to the network, and have worked with them since Day One.

I have a personal stake in this not only because of my position with L&T, but I come from college radio. I got started in radio at Texas Tech's KTXT (tragically shut down due to cut backs last year after almost 50 years of broadcasting) and I think its fair to say I have a solid understanding and experience in the college radio/broadcasting education experience.

WRUF is a very unique situation in that it is a commercial station. It is self funded in every way. It is a self dependent business. It lives or dies on its ability to generate revenue. Granted, its overhead isn't the same since many that work there do so for free. The fact of the matter is that not a single penny of tax, state or student dollars go to the station. Actually the school gets revenue from the station in simple ways like rent for the office space.

To suggest the station is potentially some sort of tax cheat is frankly, ridiculous. I think someone needs to go back and find out the realities of how non-profits operate, and understand the definition.

This whole new thing is really silly because the two State Reps complaining are not even from areas of Florida where you can hear the show, much less the Gainesville area. Also, the show has been on Rock 104 for almost ten years, and now suddenly, out of the blue the show is not "proper", or worthy of the image of something owned by the state? Silly.

No, this is about a very small group of people mad that another UF station decided to stop playing classical music and only NPR talk. Without the music they looked to see where else the school could be playing classical and their wandering eyes spied the "noisy, rude rock station".

Yes, the original suggestion by this group was to dump the whole format, not just L&T.

These people did not get far with this idea so they started shopping the premise that it was wrong that the station airs L&T to different politicians. Two picked up on it. Neither one clearly has actually listened to the show, know anything about the actual content and only read the bit titles and the factually incorrect accusations of the complainers.

Unfortunately both Representatives, in their responses to listener feedback prove that they haven't taken the time to really understand the situation or the facts. Both repeatedly claim that they are looking out for the taxpayer dollars, when there are none at stake.

Actually L&T have been such a financial boon to WRUF the argument that the loss of the show, and the certain placement of it on an eventual new home - would be a terrible blow to WRUF's performance.

I don't mean to imply that L&T are the only reason WRUF is a successful station, but there is a reason they came to us 10 years ago. There was, and has been since, a lot of discussion between us and the school's deans about their expectations. We've been very careful to respect that and when they were concerned about the old DBF segment, we obliged them when they chose to not air the show live on those days, when we could have cancelled their contract and forced them to pay the remaining contract terms in full.

We are terribly proud that WRUF is on our affiliate list. It is a massive signal, a historic FM frequency and a great performer for our network.

Lex & Terry have a great relationship with the cities of Gainesville and Ocala, the University of Florida and the station. We are under contract and are celebrating one of our best ratings performances with the station in the Spring 2009 book.

My apologies for butting into the conversation, but there is a terrible amount of misinformation and misguided opinion going on here (shock, its a forum board). I just wanted to throw out a little bit of factual info, history and background of the full story.

If you have specific questions you can email me directly.

Peter Welpton
Managing Director
Lex & Terry Morning Radio Network
peter AT lexandterry DOT com
 
Amazing that the Managing Director of Lex & Terry would defend Rock104. Go figure... bias much?

Let me ask you sir, do you live or have you ever lived in this market?

Have you ever attended or worked (directly) for the University of Florida?

RNR and Bill are correct... WRUF-FM should be LIVE and LOCAL 24/7. Asking 18-22 year olds to be up at 4:30 is asking a lot? For some, perhaps. Here is what you do, have a morning show HOSTED by a trained professional, one of the professors, someone who has done radio for a long time. Then, have all of the co-hosts be students, then have students do the rest of the day.

Have the program director be a join effort between professor/student as well as student APD and MD.

This would be the best way to teach these kids, not piping in some out of market program.

These legislators are right on the money (can't believe I'd agree with a govt official)

Oh, and another thing Mr. Manager... this is NOT the first time this shenanigans has come about... it's come up a few times. You just wait, Rock104's days are numbered with L&T if these things continue to happen.

It's a shame such a large University chooses to operate like this... I'll let the commercial station thing go if they drop L&T. Until that happens, I will continue to speak out against Rock104.
 
Thank you Mr, "ThatGuyontheRadio" for reminding me why I shouldn't have broken my rule about posting on a forum board.

I am not here to debate the merits of WRUF's decision to be a commercial radio station it is and has been for decades. I simply wanted to inject some perspective from someone that is actually involved in the story being discussed. So, I think a proper re-read and retention of my first post will provide you with some insight as to why I am perfectly qualified to be a part of this discussion.

And if not being part of UF or Gainesville is really important to you, I would then think you'd dismiss the legislators as well, since they aren't from there (or ever heard the show) either.

Not sure what you mean by "shenanigans" (but that is a awesome word, btw), and I am not sure there are any going on here now. L&T have been doing the SAME SHOW on WRUF for ten years.

I appreciate the passion for opinion on what WRUF should/shouldn't be doing, but it might be easy to forget that it is a commercial radio station, and part of that educational process is to teach the operation of a station that generates revenue and ratings. Hence the reason they came to us a decade ago. And if you think that broadcasting education is out the window with a syndicated show, you've really not been a part of it yourself. Radio consists of things other than "on-air", all of which this show provides to another level - production, live producing of the show, promotion, sales, programming and engineering (oh wait, the engineers are paid staff too, maybe students should only do that). WRUF's benefit of having a successful, money making morning show is that they can better put the other 20 hours of broadcast day to use with students.

Oh, I posted as a real person, not anonymous or pseudonyms - so my "bias", I call it "reality" - are out in the open.
 
You need not lecture me on how radio is run, I've been working in this industry in several markets to know how it works, but I appreciate the heads up.

These legislators are well aware of what is going on. As for shenanigans, I speak of the incident in 2005 with regards to DBF. So, my friend... since you claim to have been with the station for 10 years-- you should be aware of this and this incident now not being the first time something has arisen.

You can teach the operation of a commercial radio station without syndication. Sure, it's a very real part of radio now, but explain it... maybe visit a station in the market that IS doing syndication-- but don't cheat kids out of a daypart of learning just so you can make a few extra bucks.

If you thought posting on this forum would be bad... then, why ever did you do it?

I don't think L&T is a bad show at all... for the most part I like it. Just not on a radio station owned and operated by the State of Florida.
 
Regarding RNR's comments about WRUF-FM's possible tax liabilities, let me suggest that such worries are no doubt groundless.

For one thing, the U of F has owned that commercial channel for many decades, and the school's attorneys and financial executives have undoubtedly consulted with the IRS on a continuous basis to make certain that the station is operating within acceptable guidelines. This isn't something new; it's something that everyone has been aware of for a long, long time. And as Mr. Riviera pointed out, the school's non-profit status has always been paramount.

Secondly, universities have become much more entrepreneurial in recent years, pursuing business ventures in all sorts of different categories--from hotels and restaurants to clothing and licensing to real estate and development--generating the kind of annual revenue that would dwarf Rock 104's entire history of advertising income. For an organization like UF, radio money is small potatoes. The University of Florida's accountants--and lawyers--are on top of this, and always have been.
 
As the banter back and forth continues of the true merits of non-profit, and whether or not students should staff the station full time and have a professor anchor a competitive morning show, I am instantly reminded of the old axiom, "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach."
Leave it to the suits who don't 'get' radio to ruin it for everyone. In the mean time, let the L&T Profit Machine keep the great billing and high ratings rolling in as long as possible.
Now let's talk about the nude dancers in the cafeteria ...
 
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