Legal ID Questions

[Stick_Davis]

2 of them.

1: Do you have to include translators in a legal ID?

2: Say you have two stations, one AM, one FM, same COL, different calls. While simulcasting, is it legal to say "WABC, WXYZ Anytown" or must you say "WABC Anytown, WXYZ Anytown"?

Thanks

 

[DudeFan]

> 2 of them.
>
> 1: Do you have to include translators in a legal ID?
>
> 2: Say you have two stations, one AM, one FM, same COL,
> different calls. While simulcasting, is it legal to say
> "WABC, WXYZ Anytown" or must you say "WABC Anytown, WXYZ
> Anytown"?
>
> Thanks
>

I'll have to look up the cites to the Regs in 47 CFR but here's a summary:

Translators must be ID'd once an hour. It can be by FSK, Morse, or Audio either locally originated by the translator or originated by the translated station. Some stations choose to have the full-power station do it. For example, Bonneville ID's their trimulcast, plus translator as: "WTOP Washington, WTOP-FM Warrenton, WXTR Frederick and W282BA Leesburg"

This is part answers question two. Each station in a simulcast must be ID'd separately. I have heard, in the past, the following which is technically not correct: WINC FM and AM Winchester. This is incorrect for two reasons. First, the rules do not explicity provide for the insertion of "AM" in between the calls and the city of license. The channel number, frequency, and licensee name or all three are permitted. Secondly, AM stations are not granted calls with the AM extenstion. So it is never proper to identify a station in a legal ID as WXXX-AM Wherever.

It should be: WINC Winchester WINC-FM Winchester.

I have also heard some stations get creative with it by running the ID each in a separate channel on the FM. For example, WSSP F/A Charleston used to ID as the top of the hour as follows: W S S P Charleston W S S P FM Goose Creek Charleston, with the AM in the left channel and the FM in the right, with the annoucer saying the calls with the same pacing so it kind of matched. It was cool... but bordered on unintelligible.

 

[tkarvelis]

Here is the Rule.

Hope this clears up anny questions.

Sec. 74.1283 Station identification.

(a) The call sign of an FM broadcast translator station will consist
of the initial letter K or W followed by the channel number assigned to
the translator and two letters. The use of the initial letter will
generally conform to the pattern used in the broadcast service. The two
letter combinations following the channel number will be assigned in
order and requests for the assignment of particular combinations of
letters will not be considered.
(b) The call sign of an FM booster station will consist of the call
sign of the primary station followed by the letters ``FM'' and the
number of the booster station being authorized, e.g., WFCCFM-1.
(c) A translator station authorized under this subpart shall be
identified by one of the following methods.
(1) By arranging for the primary station whose station is being
rebroadcast to identify the translator station by call sign and
location. Three such identifications shall be made during each day: once
between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m., once between 12:55 p.m. and 1:05 p.m. and
once between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m. Stations which do not begin their
broadcast before 9 a.m. shall make their first identification at the
beginning of their broadcast days. The licensee of an FM translator
whose station identification is made by the primary station must arrange
for the primary station licensee to keep in its file, and to make
available to FCC personnel, the translator's call letters and location,
giving the name, address and telephone number of the licensee or his
service representative to be contacted in the event of malfunction of
the translator. It shall be the responsibility of the translator
licensee to furnish current
<P ID="signature">______________
You want to book the remote when?!?!</P>

 

[Drew5164]

> Translators must be ID'd once an hour.


The translator is identified three times daily: once
between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m., once between 12:55 p.m. and 1:05 p.m. and
once between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m.

I remember having the fun of trying to schedule these in automation.

 

[DudeFan]

> > Translators must be ID'd once an hour.
>
>
> The translator is identified three times daily: once
> between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m., once between 12:55 p.m. and 1:05
> p.m. and
> once between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m.
>
> I remember having the fun of trying to schedule these in
> automation.
>

Thanks for the clarification! I guess for some folks, it's easier to do it every hour. I think the crown translators with the built-in IDing function do it every hour.

 

[dave73]

> Thanks for the clarification! I guess for some folks, it's
> easier to do it every hour. I think the crown translators
> with the built-in IDing function do it every hour.
>
I know WBGL does their ID at the top of the hour with all 4 full power stations and 1 translator as followed:
91.7 WBGL Champaign/Urbana
104.7 WCFL Morris/Chicagoland
88.1 WNLD Decatur
88.1 W201AD Mattoon
88.5 WCRT Terre Haute

I don't remember if it's in that order, but I do know WBGL is ID'd 1st & WCFL 2nd.

For stations that ID with simulcasts:
WNDV AM & FM ID's as WNDV AM/FM South Bend.

Nine FM used to ID WRZA as WRZA-FM Park Forest/Orland Park/Chicago before their trimulcast. Then the trimulcast started ID'ing as 99.9 WRZA-FM Park Forest/92.7 WKIE Arlington Heights/92.5 WDEK Dekalb. Later they dropped the FM on WRZA since the license doesn't have an -FM on it. Now Nine FM only ID's the individual stations at the top of the hour with their localcasting. Now WRZA is just ID'd as WRZA Park Forest/Orland Park/Chicago
WKIE is ID'd as WKIE Arlington Heights/Schaumburg/Chicago
WDEK is ID'd as WDEK Dekalb/Naperville/Chicago. Truthfully WDEK shouldn't even have Chicago in the ID at all since it can't be heard in Chicago at all, like WKIE (north side) & WRZA (south side) are.

 

[vtjazy]

> > Translators must be ID'd once an hour.
>
>
> The translator is identified three times daily: once
> between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m., once between 12:55 p.m. and 1:05
> p.m. and
> once between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m.
>
> I remember having the fun of trying to schedule these in
> automation.
>


WROV Martinsville seems to ID their translator every hour:

"96-3 WROV Martinsville" then in a much more subdued and quicker voice "96-7 W244AB Blacksburg"

 

[CW]

> This is part answers question two. Each station in a
> simulcast must be ID'd separately. I have heard, in the
> past, the following which is technically not correct: WINC
> FM and AM Winchester. This is incorrect for two reasons.
> First, the rules do not explicity provide for the insertion
> of "AM" in between the calls and the city of license. The
> channel number, frequency, and licensee name or all three
> are permitted. Secondly, AM stations are not granted calls
> with the AM extenstion. So it is never proper to identify a
> station in a legal ID as WXXX-AM Wherever.
>
> It should be: WINC Winchester WINC-FM Winchester.

KKBQ AM and FM in Houston back in its simulcast days had to do it similarly because of different COLs
"KKBQ-FM Pasadena, KKBQ Houston Texas!" was the ID

>
> I have also heard some stations get creative with it by
> running the ID each in a separate channel on the FM. For
> example, WSSP F/A Charleston used to ID as the top of the
> hour as follows: W S S P Charleston W S S P FM Goose Creek
> Charleston, with the AM in the left channel and the FM in
> the right, with the annoucer saying the calls with the same
> pacing so it kind of matched. It was cool... but bordered on
> unintelligible.

And illegal..The LEGAL ID must be heard clearly on mono L+R...and the way they were doing it was combining the AM and FM IDs together in a mono signal..
thus not being able to understand either one.. bet a FCC inspector would have fun with that! There is a FM station I know of that runs high school football in the fall...one game on left channel and a different one on right channel!!!but they will be getting a letter from the Friendly Candy Company telling them that is illegal under Part 73 sterephonic operations...oh well!

 

[CW]

> Here is the Rule.
<SNIP>
> giving the name, address and telephone number of the
> licensee or his
> service representative to be contacted in the event of
> malfunction of
> the translator. It shall be the responsibility of the
> translator
> licensee to furnish current
------(Adding the missing part of the rules above)-------
information to the primary station licensee for this purpose.
(2) By transmitting the call sign in International Morse Code at
least once each hour. Transmitters of FM broadcast translator stations
of more than 1 watt transmitter output power must be equipped with an
automatic keying device that will transmit the call sign at least once
each hour, unless there is in effect a firm agreement with the
translator's primary station as provided in Sec. 74.1283(c)(1) of this
section. Transmission of the call sign can be accomplished by:
(i) Frequency shifting key; the carrier shift shall not be less than
5 kHz nor greater than 25 kHz.
(ii) Amplitude modulation of the FM carrier of at least 30 percent
modulation. The audio frequency tone use shall not be within 200 hertz
of the Emergency Broadcast System Attention signal alerting frequencies.
(d) FM broadcast booster stations shall be identified by their
primary stations, by the broadcasting of the primary station's call
signs and location, in accordance with the provisions of Sec. 73.1201
of this chapter.
(e) The Commission may, in its discretion, specify other methods of
identification.
===================================================================
SOOO a translator can be IDed in such a way you and the general public will NOT hear it...it is there only for the FCC's use..FSK and AM code cannot be detected on a normal FM rcvr.