• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Legal ID

Is this ID legal for Power 104.1 to use because I heard them use it the other day. It went like this.

WPHH-FM Power 104.1 Waterbury, Hartford

Now I always thought right after the calls the city is always after. Am I right?
 
Does it matter? I don't know if the POWER 104.1 is legal, but I know that it would be legal to say WPHH 104.1 FM Waterbury-Hartford because you can do the calls the freq and then the COL. And technically WPHH-FM is illegal. According to the FCC's database 104.1 is WPHH. Also legal would be POWER 104-1 is WPHH Waterbury Hartford. Also legal POWER 104-1, WPHH Waterbury-Hartford. WKND 1230 AM hasn't had a legal legal ID in over a year. They ID as The New 24 Hour WKND 1230 AM Hartford-Manchester. It's supposed to be Manchester and then whatever other city they want to add.<P ID="signature">______________
~Jay Clark~
</P>
 
> I don't know if the POWER 104.1 is legal,
> but I know that it would be legal to say WPHH 104.1 FM
> Waterbury-Hartford because you can do the calls the freq and
> then the COL.

Actually Jay, that's not legal. You can give your frequency AFTER your call, not in the middle of it. So WPHH 104.1 Waterbury is legal. Not WPHH 104.1 FM Waterbury.

> And technically WPHH-FM is illegal. According
> to the FCC's database 104.1 is WPHH. Also legal would be
> POWER 104-1 is WPHH Waterbury Hartford. Also legal POWER
> 104-1, WPHH Waterbury-Hartford.

Not to nit pick too much here Jay but the legal is WPHH Waterbury
Hartford is just an add on afterwards, it has nothing to do with the true licensed legal ID...

However when is the last time the FCC fined a station on Legal ID issues?
Here is when: http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2005/DA-05-702A1.html
March 17, 2005! So it does still happen...

The rule by the way is 73.1201, if you want to look it up.
 
OKAY, I KNOW THE RULES ABOUT LEGAL IDS AND STUFF... BUT I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED RIGHT NOW. YOU HAVE TO SAY YOUR CITY OF LICENSE IMEDIATLY AFTER THE CALLS RIGHT? OKAY SO THAT BEING SAID - Z100 NYC... I HEARD AN AIRCHECK FROM THE EARLY 90'S AND THEY ID AS WHTZ NEW YORK CITY... BUT THEIR LEGAL RIGHT NOW IS WHTZ NEWARK NEW YORK CITY. I KNOW THEY ARE LICENSED TO NEWARD ACCORDING TO RADIO-LOCATOR.COM... WHY THE DIFFERENCE? AND IF THEY CHANGED C-O-L WHY?

IVE ONLY BEEN IN THE BIZ 5 YEARS AND AM STILL LEARNING ALOT... BUT I THINK LEGAL ID'S AND COL IS SOMETHING I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND!


COL CITY A, TOWER IN CITY B AND STUDIO IN CITY C... BROADCASTING TO CITY X!
 
> IVE ONLY BEEN IN THE BIZ 5 YEARS AND AM STILL LEARNING
> ALOT... BUT I THINK LEGAL ID'S AND COL IS SOMETHING I WILL
> NEVER UNDERSTAND!

A new lesson; please type in lower case letters. Shouting in caps gives me a headache.
 
For the record, Z-100 is WHTZ 100.3, licensed to Newark, NJ. Their transmitter is atop the Empire State Building. As for the "FM" suffix, it isn't necessary, since the FCC database doesn't show a WHTZ-AM anywhere.

By the way, does anybody know the reason why WHTZ is licensed to Newark to begin with?
 
> it isn't necessary, since the FCC database
> doesn't show a WHTZ-AM anywhere.

Let's disspell one myth that seems to run a lot on these boards.
A station must get a suffix in TWO conditions. 1) there is an AM
with the call sign being used or 2) they are not the original user
of the call sign, and are going to be the second user of it
i.e. WGBH. WGBH 89.7 has had the call before the TV did WGBH-TV.
So WGBH is required to have the "-TV" at the end. If WGBH-TV had
the call sign before the radio, they could be WGBH and WGBH-FM.

If you have a matched call sign to someone, and they change theirs, it is at your option to remove the suffix. There is no legal requirement to do so.

And for the record, WHTZ's legal call sign is just WHTZ, not WHTZ-FM.
 
> BUT THEIR LEGAL RIGHT
> NOW IS WHTZ NEWARK NEW YORK CITY. I KNOW THEY ARE LICENSED
> TO NEWARD ACCORDING TO RADIO-LOCATOR.COM... WHY THE
> DIFFERENCE? AND IF THEY CHANGED C-O-L WHY?

Actually their legal is WHTZ Newark. The New York City they just added in on the end.

> COL CITY A, TOWER IN CITY B AND STUDIO IN CITY C...
> BROADCASTING TO CITY X!

Welcome to broadcasting...
 
> > I don't know if the POWER 104.1 is legal,
> > but I know that it would be legal to say WPHH 104.1 FM
> > Waterbury-Hartford because you can do the calls the freq
> and
> > then the COL.
>
> Actually Jay, that's not legal. You can give your frequency
> AFTER your call, not in the middle of it. So WPHH 104.1
> Waterbury is legal. Not WPHH 104.1 FM Waterbury.

This is just tangential to your conversation, but WTIC(AM) was able to do a legal with their frequency for about 20 years--WTIC 1080 Hartford. The Chase family called their company 1080 Corp, and it was (and I assume still is) legal to have the licensee's name between the calls and the city of license.

Man, I AM a radio geek....
 
> This is just tangential to your conversation, but WTIC(AM)
> was able to do a legal with their frequency for about 20
> years--WTIC 1080 Hartford. The Chase family called their
> company 1080 Corp, and it was (and I assume still is) legal
> to have the licensee's name between the calls and the city
> of license.
>
> Man, I AM a radio geek....

Plus it is legal to insert your frequency/channel as well...
 
> By the way, does anybody know the reason why WHTZ is
> licensed to Newark to begin with?

Yes. It's because the FM table of allotments, codified in Federal law as 47CFR73.202, specifies that channel 262B (100.3 MHz) is allotted to Newark, New Jersey, in keeping with the requirements of the Communications Act of 1933, section 307(b), that there be an "equitable distribution" of radio service among the several states.

You asked :)

s<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2005 NOW AVAILABLE! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
 
> IVE ONLY BEEN IN THE BIZ 5 YEARS AND AM STILL LEARNING
> ALOT... BUT I THINK LEGAL ID'S AND COL IS SOMETHING I WILL
> NEVER UNDERSTAND!

It's not all that complicated, really.

The legal ID part is easy - it's supposed to consist of:

*your call letters (as stated on your license, so for WPHH, it should be "WPHH," not "WPHHFM")

*(optionally) your frequency or channel number (for WPHH, that could be "104.1" or "channel 281"; unlike my friend txengineer, I find "104.1 FM" acceptable as well)

*(optionally) the name of your licensee, as stated on your license ("Capstar TX Limited Partnership," in the case of WPHH; the parent company "Clear Channel" would not be technically permissible, though the FCC would almost surely let it slide)

*your city of license ("Waterbury")

Anything before the calls or after the city of license doesn't count, and it's all supposed to be done "at the closest natural break in programming" to the top of the hour, and whenever the station begins or ceases operation.

It's not brain surgery, really.

Now, as for the city of license business - for the 92.1-107.9 MHz FM band and TV, there are allocation tables that are written into federal law, specifying what channels can be used, at what power, in what communities. For AM and for 87.9-91.9 MHz FM, stations are licensed based on contour protection - you can't overlap a specific signal-strength contour with specific contours of other stations on the same channel or on up to the third-adjacent channel. So, if you're on 88.9, let's say, you need to protect the signals of other stations from 88.3 up to 89.5. If you're on 1430, you need to worry about stations from 1400-1460. The exact details are set out in the appropriate parts of the FCC rules.

What does city of license have to do with this? Whether your allotment comes from a table or from contour protection, your station must provide a certain signal strength (70 dBu, for commercial FM stations; 5 mV/m, for AM stations) over all of its city of license. You must have a toll-free number to reach the station's office from the city of license, and you must maintain a legal main studio (with full-time personnel and a public file) within 25 miles of that community (or, alternatively, within the city-grade contour of any station licensed to that community.)

So let's take WPHH as an example:

Its CITY OF LICENSE is Waterbury, because that's where the table of allocations says it is. Clear Channel could, theoretically, go before the FCC and petition for a change to the allocations table to move it to Hartford, but because that would add one more allotment to a city that already has many of them, at the expense of a community that has only one other class B FM allotment, it would run afoul of the "equitable distribution" provision of the Communications Act.

Its TRANSMITTER is on West Peak in Meriden. It can be there, because from there it puts a 70 dBu signal over all of Waterbury, the city of license, and meets all applicable spacing requirements to other stations from 91.9-93.1 on the dial. And it's there because from West Peak, it can not only meet those requirements but also serve the much larger Hartford market.

Its STUDIOS are in Farmington, if memory serves. They can be there because it's within the city-grade contour of at least one station licensed to Waterbury (in this case, WPHH itself, but also WWYZ and WTXX.) If you were to look in the Waterbury phone book, you'd see (or at least you should see) a number for WPHH that can be dialed without toll charges from Waterbury.

All these things are true of WHTZ as well - COL in Newark, transmitter on the Empire State Building, studios in Jersey City. They tend to do a very quick "WHTZ Newark" legal ID in the stopset 10 minutes before the hour, then a big produced "WHTZ NEW YORK" at the top of the hour, which is what you heard. Not technically legal, but the FCC lets it slide.<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2005 NOW AVAILABLE! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
 
WPHH

WPHH's studios are in Hartford with the other Clear Channel Stations. WZMX is in Farmington with the other Infinity Stations. The last time I saw a copy of the Greater Hartford Phone book, WPHH was still listed as WMRQ, even though they were WPHH. And it said Contest line 666-4444/Main Number 666-1411. They dropped 666-1411 when they moved from Newington to Hartford and now use the regular Clear Channel Number which is 723 something. And when they flipped from Modern Rock to hip-hop their contest line changed from 666-4444 to 247-1041/1-877-247-1041. Although it's listed as a Hartford exchange in the phone book 666 is a Newington Exchange, as is 665, 667, and 594.<P ID="signature">______________
~Jay Clark~
</P>
 
I hope so...

> *your call letters (as stated on your license, so for WPHH,
> it should be "WPHH," not "WPHHFM")

Picky picky picky. =)

> So let's take WPHH as an example:
>
> Its TRANSMITTER is on West Peak in Meriden. It can be there,
> because from there it puts a 70 dBu signal over all of
> Waterbury, the city of license, and meets all applicable
> spacing requirements to other stations from 91.9-93.1 on the
> dial. And it's there because from West Peak, it can not only
> meet those requirements but also serve the much larger
> Hartford market.

Geez I hope it protects frequencies 11 mHZ off of the center frequency!
(I think he mean't it protects 103.5-104.7)

> Its STUDIOS are in Farmington, if memory serves.

Nope. The studios are on 10 Columbus Bvld in Hartford.
You're thinking of Infinity on Executive Drive.
 
Re: I hope so...

> > Its TRANSMITTER is on West Peak in Meriden. It can be
> there,
> > because from there it puts a 70 dBu signal over all of
> > Waterbury, the city of license, and meets all applicable
> > spacing requirements to other stations from 91.9-93.1 on
> the
> > dial. And it's there because from West Peak, it can not
> only
> > meet those requirements but also serve the much larger
> > Hartford market.
>
> Geez I hope it protects frequencies 11 mHZ off of the center
> frequency!
> (I think he mean't it protects 103.5-104.7)

The brain was thinking 104.1, the fingers were typing 92.5. TX understands why I'd get the two mixed up :)

> > Its STUDIOS are in Farmington, if memory serves.
>
> Nope. The studios are on 10 Columbus Bvld in Hartford.
> You're thinking of Infinity on Executive Drive.

So I am...

s<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2005 NOW AVAILABLE! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
 
Re: I hope so...

> The brain was thinking 104.1, the fingers were typing 92.5.
> TX understands why I'd get the two mixed up :)

Gee, I can't imagine why. And I know you've NEVER seen their transmitters before =)
 
> If you were to look in the
> Waterbury phone book, you'd see (or at least you should see)
> a number for WPHH that can be dialed without toll charges
> from Waterbury.

The December 2004 edition of the Waterbury phone book (the latest one) does not list WPHH. However, it still has a local listing for WMRQ even though it flipped over a year before the phone book came out. Also, isn't WWYZ licensed in Waterbury? There is no listing for them at all.
 
is it legal to say WHTZ NEWARK and then turn around 10 min later and say WHTZ NEW YORK CITY?


a few years back we got a finger shook at us by the fcc for the way our legal was being done... in the last stop set at 10 till we did WYUL CHATEAUGAY and then at TOH we had a "mock" Legal that said "serving 2 great countries and north america's greatest city... 947 hits fm... montreal, malone, massena, cornwall and lake placid" and made us move the actual legal to the mock and list the communities closer to us (and in the same country) first...

were they nit picking? if we really wanted to could we say wyul chateaugay in the stopset and then at toh (although it wouldnt make sense because of the W) say WYUL MONTREAL?
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom