Legends Jingles and Swingles and shouts, Oh my.

[RDJ3000]

This might be a topic to talk about. Have you heard Legends lately? Are they finally doing something different about their jingles? I heard very different and variable Jingles and Swingles among other things. Comments?

 

[Desert Pete]

Oh please. You've got only two posts under the handle you're using ... and this is one of them. You're either a suit from Corporate trying to scope out the local scene, or you work there.

But just in case ... I listen to Legends when I hear songs and artists I recognize, and then hit the button when I hear something totally unfamiliar (at least once every quarter-hour) or another artist covering a known hit (for example, "How Can You Mend A Broken Heart" by Michael Buble). I'll also hit the button when that goof ball overnight weekender starts talking, and talking, and talking. Whoever that is (I never hang around to listen for his name) needs talent coaching badly. Might I suggest the 7 to midnight guy, Joe Peters. He's the only one over there who knows how to talk and actually SAY something in less than :30 seconds. And ... oh yeah. They're still playing the same dated jingles and silly sweepers (" ... we play fourteen songs every hour ... " - well, of COURSE you do - all the songs are two and a half minutes long.)

What a pity. Such potential being wasted. I'd love to dive into the numbers just just see how high the cume is and how low the TSL is.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

This might be a topic to talk about. Have you heard Legends lately? Are they finally doing something different about their jingles? I heard very different and variable Jingles and Swingles among other things. Comments?

I would be happy to comment.
I stopped listening to Legends a while ago because, like many others, I grew tired of the same repetitive music rotation, outdated jingles, no local news, and some (not all) announcers who would be better served by remaining quiet rather than opening their mouths.
Legends has posted a gain in audience in the latest 12+ book and they should be congratulated for that. But remember there is still the strong possibility that Legends success will spur another FM station to switch formats and challenge that station. Then watch Legends numbers drop like a rock because there is no way Crawford is going to spend, or has, the money that a Clear Channel or Entercom does to air a competitive format.

 

[Bob1370]

The best thing Legends has going for it, other than a format monopoly in the market right now, is that there aren't many candidates among the full-market-coverage FMs that are hurting enough to make a serious run at classic hits radio. I don't see Legends getting an immediate challenger from among the bigger signal stations in town simply because of cost and the slack economy, although down the road in better times a year or two from now that could well change. And another lower power or rimshot signal could never make it pay. Even a year or two down the road, there's only one obvious candidate for change.

First there's the cost of doing it right. It's a format that needs strong personalities in every daypart from morning to midnight to really reach its potential (which is big when it's done well)...so that means while the rewards for success are great, the up-front costs are higher than most other music formats as well.

Second, who's really in trouble right now? Most of the full-market commercial FMs are doing reasonably well. Can't see either the Bee, which is a perennial contender for overall market lead; Fox, which just hired Wease; CMF, which is down but far from out; PXY, which is format leader in CHR; Buzz, which is doing OK in its AAA/classic rock hybrid approach; or Warm 101.3, which has soft rock and pop to itself, making a format flip. Also, forget any of the weaker signal stations like Fickle, Zone, JZR or Kiss doing anything that would up their budgets. Meanwhile WDKX, despite its weaker signal, is nevertheless a market leader and king of 12-34 listening in the market; the only thing that would help them do even better is a bigger signal footprint for what they already do well (and if they had that 50 KW signal, they could probably be #1 in the market in their own right, but that's another story).

That pretty much leaves Drive 100.5, which could use that 50 kW signal to a lot better advantage as a personality full-service classic hits station, a revival of what it used to be as WVOR back in the day, as compared to the nondescript canned format it's running now. Let's suppose for the moment that Clear Channel keeps the 100.5 facility in its portfolio and doesn't sell it to the Langstons or anyone else in the next year or two. They're parking the heritage WVOR call in Canandaigua at present. No inside knowledge here, but it wouldn't shock me if one day, as the economy starts to turn brighter, they bring those call letters home to Rochester and to the place on the dial where they started in order to renew the brand which once stood for personality full-service radio with a heavy gold-based music library. But that's probably a story for 2010 or 2011. Legends probably has the classic hits format all to itself for at least another 18 to 24 months, maybe longer.

 

[umtrr-author]

Offered as observations and not necessarily criticism.

While dropping off our daughter at school, Legends played "Kung Fu Fighting". I started to laugh and our daughter started to sing the song!

And my wife said, "They played that yesterday too..."

The previous day at lunchtime, the song "Hold On Tight" by the Electric Light Orchestra* was heard coming out of a set of callers attempting and failing to answer the trivia question. Based on the voices I heard, I just can't conclude that these callers and one of the last Top 40 hits by ELO are in the same demographic.

*This does qualify as a "drive off the road" song in my estimation.

 

[Element9]

It appears Legends is squandering valuable commodities, time being one of the most important.

How long has Lengends been on the air, and still the inconsistencies in music and programming persist. Is it a matter of not knowing that the station sounds wholely unfocused? Does having the only Oldies, Near Oldies or Classic Hits format in Rochester So many posters have made suggestions that would make Legends a better station.

It may be that Mike Doyle, RVP of Entercom, has analyized Legends' marginal success because The Lake, which has a competitive signal in Rochester, seems to have adopted a more hit-oriented approach that sounds like a cross between Classic Rock and Classic Hits. Every dog has its day. It may be that Legends' day has come and gone.

 

[Desert Pete]

Lengends also has a touch of an adult standards music format mixed in with their oldies/classic hits managerie. Jimmy Durante, Sammy Davis Jr, Frank Sinatra, Rosie Clooney - and remakes of pop standards. P-U.

Besides being a musical mess, there's no news, no talent, no focus, and no direction. I've even heard voicetracks missing so that music goes right into stop-sets. No buffers. No nothin'. Just music into stopsets. Apparently nobody double-checks the merged logs after they're exported to the studio to see that all of the elements are there. Even two of the better heritage jocks from this market ... K.B Cooper and Mike Vickers ... sound like shadows of their former selves on this station.

Legends is an industry joke ... and they have the courage to send people out to try and sell it. Amazing. And with so many talented people on the beach right now ... especially amazing.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Besides being a musical mess, there's no news, no talent, no focus, and no direction. I've even heard voicetracks missing so that music goes right into stop-sets. No buffers. No nothin'. Just music into stopsets. Apparently nobody double-checks the merged logs after they're exported to the studio to see that all of the elements are there. Even two of the better heritage jocks from this market ... K.B Cooper and Mike Vickers ... sound like shadows of their former selves on this station.

It all comes down to money. Crawford doesn't want to spend it on announcers nor staff a local news department. So as long as the station continues to generate revenue without having to deal with a larger overhead, don't expect any major changes.

 

[Element9]

Besides being a musical mess, there's no news, no talent, no focus, and no direction. I've even heard voicetracks missing so that music goes right into stop-sets. No buffers. No nothin'. Just music into stopsets. Apparently nobody double-checks the merged logs after they're exported to the studio to see that all of the elements are there. Even two of the better heritage jocks from this market ... K.B Cooper and Mike Vickers ... sound like shadows of their former selves on this station.

It all comes down to money. Crawford doesn't want to spend it on announcers nor staff a local news department. So as long as the station continues to generate revenue without having to deal with a larger overhead, don't expect any major changes.

What about pride? Attention to detail? Character? Professionalism? Competitive spirit?

 

[therealjm12]

WLGZ marches to the beat to a completely different drummer as the other homogenized big corporate stations in the market and that seems to be what most of the posters on this board say they desire. However, some posters seem to bent on critizising the operation. First of all the jocks. We all say we need a farm system to train new talent. WLGZ is the only station in the market that does that. Last night I listened to an obvious novice doing overnights. He talked and talked. He kept giggling and I wasn't in on the joke. But he was having fun and if he was voice tracked it certainly didn't sound it. Personally, I found it entertaining and knew here was a young guy given a chance to learn his trade. The station actually had personality at 2 AM. What other station in Western N. Y. had a local personality on at that time? Yes, their jingles could be freshened up -which they seem to be doing, but I like the old Pamms,too.
I gotta say I don't listen to much radio anymore. Mostly just in the car. If I do listen to a music station Legends is on my preset. They do play about 4 or 5 great songs in a row but then stick in Al Jolson or Dinah Shore. I just change the station to the FOX or and go back to NPR or a very static WWKB, but will go back to Legends eventually. WLGZ has their own way of doing things and it apparently works. I have no inside information but their sales staff is able to sell on the streets, door to door. They don't seem to have a lot of agency spots but a lot of Mom & Pop businesses that must pay the bills. Good for them! That worked for stations 20 years ago and must be working for them now.
As far as the ratings go, I think a 3.0 is going to be about it. They don't have a real strong signal in all parts of the market. They are limited to very little outside promotion. I don't really think any of the "big boys" in the market are paying much attention. Entercom abandoned a very successful oldies format. David Field has made it very clear he does not have any confidence in oldies stations. Clear Channel is not going to put oldies back on 100.5 (as much as I would like it to happen). It would cost $$. They would have to hire local talent and do promotion. It would have to be done right to work. They are pretty smart over at C. C. and I don't see how a programmer could present such a proposition to the bean counters. What is now on the frequency cost next to nothing. It does has demo success and might even hurt the co-owned FOX 95.1 93.1 has proven in the past it just doesn't have the beef. It doesn't cover the western part of Monroe County. Same as 94.1. Outside of just running a satellite format that would cost basically nothing, and no new local employment, I don't see an oldies based format being successful on either of those class "A"s stations.

 

[cee]

Like most of us here, I'm all in favor of non-homogenized, non-mega corporate programmed-generic radio, but this station just doesn't cut it for me. They have some talent, but talent coaching is badly needed. Tell some of them to stop talking in DJ cliches - making cutsie remarks around the titles of the songs, eg-"hey, he's going to San Francisco and lookin' for those flowers to put on his hair and I hope he finds some." I agree about KB and Mike - both talented people who sounded better on their previous stations. KB is a talented announcer, but I know from personal experience that doing a morning show solo is a tough one.

The music is still too all over the road for me and I am not hearing new jingles when I listen.

I personally would not want to work there unless they made some improvements.

 

[Radknowski]

Well then, Legends is a farm system station. Okay, fine. Good for rambling all night guys and people who can't properly or consistently read or write news on the air. I was one of those guys way back in the day. By the grace of God, an observant PD and diligence on my own behalf, I got better, to a point. Then I elected to get out. For some reason, I could listen to my airchecks and be self-critical; "that break sucked," or "that was a good phone bit, but it could have been better, if it was 20 seconds shorter...." I learned by listening, taking notes and trying to minimize mistakes. The Late Bill Drake made jocks simplify their shtick. Sure, the man gets ripped for the liner-card mentality that gripped the business, but the fact is, he brought attention to formatics and detail to the table. Wanna do a phone bit? Make sure it's good. Get to the point. Move on. So in context it goes like this: Song fades, Station signature bed up and under, roll the phoner (off tape or digital recorder) to the point of impact, fire the jingle, play the hits. It's not rocket science. Some guys get it, some don't. Those that do make it sound simple, those that don't will constantly be swimming against the current or out of a radio job, which isn't a bad thing if that's what you want to do.

 

[outch]

Please!
With ALL the experts out there on what to do I am really at a loss to even try to respond. Everyone knows how to run a radio station, Format, Air Staff, Music, Rotation, Jingles, Gosh!! Why not just buy one and then it would be perfection (at least in your opinion) one step at a time gang, one step at a time. To be mentioned on this page YOU have to be getting under some bodys skin, one step at a time.

 

[fybush]

Totally anecdotal, of course - but whatever technical flaws we "experts" hear in Legends, the station seems to have found a following out there. It's always on in the convenience store I stop at on Monroe Avenue, and it seems to have become my mother's default preset, too, as she's aged out of WRMM-land.

Crawford is Crawford, in the end. They'll keep going with the oldies/standards niche as long as nobody else in town is pursuing it - and if someone comes in and does it better (or at all), they'll turn on a dime and try something else. Look at all the flipping they've done with their Birmingham stations, trying to find something that works. (And in the meantime, as long as Legends *does* work, they'll leave it alone.)

One more thing - that 93.3 signal suffers, I've long believed, from a bad rap born of its early days as an Avon-licensed A. Ever since it changed COL to Fairport and moved to the WBEE tower in Penfield, it's put a pretty decent signal over most of the market. Yeah, Brockport's a problem, and the summertime trop from the co-channel station in Cobourg does Fickle no favors...but 93.3 is superior to at least the 106.7 and the 107.3, and arguably to 94.1 as well. (I could even make a case for it against 102.7, if I had to; the adjacent-channel mess from 102.5 to the west and 102.9 to the east is ugly.)

 

[cee]

Why not just buy one and then it would be perfection (at least in your opinion) one step at a time gang, one step at a time.

Um, because only the very wealthy can afford them, even nowadays. In case you haven't noticed, radio-info is primarily for radio buffs to talk radio and opine about whatever subject comes up.

To be mentioned on this page YOU have to be getting under some bodys skin, one step at a time.

The talk is more negative than positive, I think most of us would agree. There is a good reason for that - most radio nowadays just plain sucks. Generic, boring. We do praise stations and personalities from time to time. Of course, much of what gets praised is what happened in the past. No, we not a bunch of cranky old men who yearn for the old days. The fact is radio mostly sucks today. Give me something new that's good and I'll praise it all ya like.

 

[umtrr-author]

I will note that the "Day of Hope" that Legends had been holding in the parking lot of the studios over on Browncroft was moved over to Marketplace Mall this weekend. KB Cooper stayed in a refrigerator box on "the island" (the one that the large mall sign is on) on the corner of Hylan and Jefferson, from 5PM Friday to 5PM Saturday to publicize the need for helping the Open Door Mission.

Certainly it was a much higher profile for the cause than they'd done in the last few years, and although I'm as fast as anyone around here to call out the "screeches" in the playlist, I must commend them for their charitable work this past weekend.

Note to Outch: It's been my experience that I've been more warmly welcomed to a new forum (regardless of the topic) when my first post is an introduction and hello, rather than a grenade.

 

[Radknowski]

Look outch (sic), it's nothing personal. Notice that we rag and rip on any number of radio stations, from The Lake to Mix, WBEN, WGR, WECK in Buffalo to WHAM, WCMF and WCMF in Rochester. There's a certain status to being the topic du jour on this board. This is where the wannabees, never wuzes, once wuzes and present day mavens hang out, carp, wave our arms in the air, point at each other and raise our voices hoping to be heard. Occasionaly we burp, fart and re-arrange the banana hammock. Not a place for the meek or thin skinned. It's like the social club in Del Boca Vista... or Polish Falcons Club... 'cept nobody drives Cadillacs... hell, the guy who does own a radio station and posts here drives a Hudson! And has anybody noticed that he's been unusually low key as of late. Must be using his time to plan the Whistle-Mistleto sales promotion or lining up trade for the staff Christmas party.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

The Legends format has been an on-going post on Radio-Info for some time now and it basically comes down to either one likes the format, or doesn't. Meanwhile Crawford is making money and they could care less what us "experts" think. So why don't we move on to another subject? Or we could pool our financial resources, buy the station, and make changes we think would improve the station. Anyone win last night's lottery?

 

[Element9]

I'd also add, however late, that most of us have a pretty good sense of humor. BTW, "eating a dictionary" is a great source of fiber and helps develop fertile brain cells... and don't get me started on the value of a thesaurus. OMG, like steroids for the vo-cab, dude.

 

[scooterodell]

What a pity. Such potential being wasted. I'd love to dive into the numbers just just see how high the cume is and how low the TSL is.

I've seen the numbers... cume is at the lower end of the list, but TSL is through the roof. I think DKX is the only in-market station with a higher TSL.