Leno's Days Numbered At NBC - Again?

[DToTheJ]

Jay Leno may have resumed beating rival David Letterman, but in the bigger picture, the top-rated late-night show in their time slot is "Nightline."

Add that to the fact that Leno's ratings during his second tour of duty on "The Tonight Show" not only are behind those of Conan O'Brien's during his brief stint as host, but even further from Leno's ratings when he had "departed" last spring.

Speculation that "Leno may be next" to go at NBC:
http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/tv/leno_next_yyQLPJwW2QFgidzoQ0wSLO

 

[landtuna]

Leno's been mailing it in for years but it has gotten more and more pitiful since the return.

 

[Markxxx]

OK so let's get this straight.

Conan had higher ratings than Leno. BUT Conan was losing to Letterman. So we can assume Letterman had higher ratings than Conan.

Now Leno is beating Letterman, but has LOWER ratings than Conan did at that time.

So all that is really going on is that the overall total number of people watching TV is going down. Hardly news.

One could also assume that if NBC hand't replaced Conan that his numbers would have been lower than Letterman. So if NBC hadn't replaced Conan NBC would not only have lower numbers than last year, but it would be LOSING to CBS's Letterman as well.

After all there is no reason for Conan's numbers to stay the same when BOTH Letterman and Leno's total overall numbers have dropped.

 

[DToTheJ]

...it has gotten more and more pitiful since the return.

The Post article suggests that:
"It is increasingly clear that the bitter feud between Leno and O'Brien last spring has badly damaged Leno's appeal."

You'd have to think that NBC has to be marginally satisfied about Leno beating Letterman (and I would bet that Leno certainly is) and with "Nightline" being a news program, they can simply tell advertisers that Leno's show is the number one "entertainment" show in late night.

 

[KentBrockman]

NBC should air Carson era 'Tonight Show' reruns in the 11:35 nightly timeslot. Not only would they be worth watching... but the profit margin for the network would be huge.

 

[LKellerIII]

NBC should air Carson era 'Tonight Show' reruns in the 11:35 nightly timeslot. Not only would they be worth watching... but the profit margin for the network would be huge.

No - really - they wouldn't. Carson was great, but so were Milton Berle, Jackie Gleason, and Dean Martin. they were all of their time. Unlike the other three, Carson made it into the 1990s. But most viewers under 35 would not remember him, except as somebody their parents watched after they went to bed...except on Friday nights, maybe.

It occurs to me that we not only remember the past with "rose colored glasses" - but in the case of old TV shows like Carson and the original 70s-80s SNL, we're used to seeing those Best of compilations.

In my personal opinion, Carson was a bigger talent than Leno or Letterman. But Johnny wasn't brilliant every night - and a significant percentage of early SNL shows were clunkers.

 

[landtuna]

...it has gotten more and more pitiful since the return.

The Post article suggests that:
"It is increasingly clear that the bitter feud between Leno and O'Brien last spring has badly damaged Leno's appeal."

My comments were directed specifically at his current show and not fallout as a result of the O'Brien "feud". I thought Conan was a disaster without any comparison to the Leno of old. That said, since Leno's return he hasn't been very funny, the skits are for the most part lame and the turnover of the band gained him nothing. His stage personna is that of a hard-of-hearing dirty old man in a smokey, cheesy nightclub on the wrong side of the tracks. He yells at his audience which I find very objectionable (as if loudness makes the joke funnier) and doesn't do a credible job of interviewing (not that most of his guests are deserving of such).

If I were president of NBC I would create a show for Leno which takes advantage of his spontaneity and knowledge of cars. Maybe a weekly or special but certainly not daily.

One of Carson's greatest talents is that he didn't have to own the interview. He could, and did, let his guests do what they did best and he added his talents where appropriate. For that he will always be remembered as the king of the "Tonight Show" format.

 

[KentBrockman]

In my personal opinion, Carson was a bigger talent than Leno or Letterman. But Johnny wasn't brilliant every night - and a significant percentage of early SNL shows were clunkers.

It's not just early SNL episodes... but the show's entire 35 year run. IMO only about 10-15% of SNL's skits are laugh out loud funny, and I'm being generous. But SNL is a whole other topic, so I digress.

I wonder if NBC has recently contemplated changing the format of 'Tonight' away from the standard desk, band, 3 guest show that's been around for years and morphing it into something totally different. The current late night talk show format pins the success of the show all on the host's shoulders... a HUGE gamble. Jay would be hard to replace, so a total format change for 'Tonight' would probably be more beneficial. Possibly a panel show where the celebrity guests are all on stage for the full hour instead of bringing them out one by one. Not necessarily talking about serious issues, but just BSing and having fun. It'd be fun to see Robin Williams & Dana Carvey as guests try to upstage each other while musical guest Ozzy looks on in bewilderment.

And who says 'Tonight' has to have one host? People could guest host for a week and hand it off to somebody else.

 

[radiojomo]

The replacement of Kevin Eubanks with Rickey Minor didn't help either. There's no one to save Jay's bad jokes anymore.

 

[landtuna]

The replacement of Kevin Eubanks with Rickey Minor didn't help either. There's no one to save Jay's bad jokes anymore.

EXACTLY! .....exactly.

 

[imhomerjay]

So all that is really going on is that the overall total number of people watching TV is going down. Hardly news.

It means people are watching less Leno/Letterman combined, but not less TV. They're hardly the only two shows on. Just for starters, Nightline has actually seen some gains (magnified by the losses suffered by CBS/NBC). You also have increases with Kimmel overlapping the second half of those shows. But generally, it means the audience has dispersed, not that they're turning off the tube in significant numbers. (Considering viewership across all age groups is holding steady or growing in all dayparts, it disproves the idea they're watching less TV.)

 

[landtuna]

It's not just early SNL episodes... but the show's entire 35 year run. IMO only about 10-15% of SNL's skits are laugh out loud funny, and I'm being generous. But SNL is a whole other topic, so I digress.

I think giving SNL 10-15% is EXTREMELY generous. That show reminds me of a high school performance, badly rehearsed.

I wonder if NBC has recently contemplated changing the format of 'Tonight' away from the standard desk, band, 3 guest show that's been around for years and morphing it into something totally different.

I think you may be onto something although I don't know how easily a format change would go over with viewers. I never liked the bands - not Doc, not Kevin and not Rickey. I don't think they add anything to the show (although they do seem to rev up the audience). Whatever Doc and Kevin added to Jay's routines as banter wasn't a big hit nor has Rickey done anything of note since his arrival. The band should go.

The monologue used to be funny when Carson did it and even in the early Leno years. Today most "jokes" are either off-color embarrassing or based on topical political subjects that aren't funny at all. The obvious fix is to hire some writers who know how to write humor. Even I am capable of reading the day's headlines and coming up with a joke. It needs to be much better than that.

Dump the skits and staged humor and put the spotlight on a wider collection of entertainers - not just people out publicizing their latest projects. And give them enough time to actually entertain. A ten or fifteen minute "interview" interrupted by a commercial break is not sufficient for any sort of momentum. Carson used to have people who were not even in show biz on (animal trainers and the like) and the variety was great AND produced some of the best known episodes.

The current late night talk show format pins the success of the show all on the host's shoulders... a HUGE gamble. Jay would be hard to replace, so a total format change for 'Tonight' would probably be more beneficial. Possibly a panel show where the celebrity guests are all on stage for the full hour instead of bringing them out one by one. Not necessarily talking about serious issues, but just BSing and having fun.

Putting the show's success totally on Leno's shoulders is obviously not working. Some other hosts may be much better suited for this role. But Tonight Show viewers do expect some sort of continuity so I'm not wild about the idea of having guest hosts. Someone needs to anchor if for nothing else than a catalyst. Merv Griffin knew how to do it. So did Mike Douglas.

It'd be fun to see Robin Williams & Dana Carvey as guests try to upstage each other while musical guest Ozzy looks on in bewilderment.

Those two wouldn't be my first choice unless the viewers had time to drink before the performance.

And who says 'Tonight' has to have one host? People could guest host for a week and hand it off to somebody else.

I seem to remember the nights that Carson was off were not as well attended as when he hosted. It could have been the guest hosts (Joan Rivers sticks in my mind as my least favorite) or it could be that viewers expected to see Johnny and did not accept anyone else readily. Handing off the host job weekly smacks of SNL which, IMHO, is an ongoing disaster (except perhaps by gross 20-somethings who have had time to drink before watching).

 

[searadiofreak]

After the Leno debacle of the past year, don't expect any changes anytime soon with the Tonight Show. They can't afford more major changes. Perhaps in a year or two we can revisit this subject, but Leno will be in place until then. Bigger question: How will O'Brien affect the ratings, and when is Letterman going to retire?

 

[TheBigA]

Handing off the host job weekly smacks of SNL which, IMHO, is an ongoing disaster

Keep in mind that they keep a level of consistency in that show week after week with the regular cast. They are the ones who get top billing from Don Pardo. They create regular characters, who appear every week.

The fact is that the public craves a certain amount of consistency to its media. They want to know they when they tune in a certain radio station that they can expect a certain format. When they watch a show, it will have a central core of characters. It may sound boring to some, but familiarity is one of the most basic elements to entertainment.

With regards to Leno, he'd ben phoning it in before the Conan thing, and it never affected his popularity. But as others point out, he now has no foil, which will become a problem. Even Craig Ferguson discovered you need to have someone to interact with besides the audience. That's why they brought in the robot. That option is now off the table for Leno. I guess he still has Ross the Intern.

 

[BlueWanderer]

With regards to Leno, he'd ben phoning it in before the Conan thing, and it never affected his popularity. But as others point out, he now has no foil, which will become a problem. Even Craig Ferguson discovered you need to have someone to interact with besides the audience. That's why they brought in the robot. That option is now off the table for Leno. I guess he still has Ross the Intern.

Ross Matthews? Please. : I change the channel every time he shows up because he acts way too obnoxious.

I like the robot over on the Late Late Show. It sort of reminds me of Andy Richter on Conan's Tonight Show because the way the robot is behind the podium. I still don't like the censor flags, especially when it happens on a rabbit puppet. I don't care if that time it was just a joke on the rabbit puppet, it's still a bad joke. I rather just deal with the usual bleeps and blurs than those annoying childish censor flags.

 

[LKellerIII]

We've been talking about the entertainment value of Leno's show. But the article also mentions that the show is going into the red (financially speaking) because Leno is making $15 million per year more than Conan, and he's got higher production costs because his crew is bigger.

Personal tastes aside, there's speculation that the wiser move would have been to give Conan more time, to see if he could improve the show and grow his ratings. Of course, since Leno's 10:00 show was such a disaster, they would have had to pay Jay tens of millions (I forget the exact number) just to leave the network.

Talk about 'rock and a hard place' - NBC really screwed themselves on this one.

 

[bpatrick]

It's not just early SNL episodes... but the show's entire 35 year run. IMO only about 10-15% of SNL's skits are laugh out loud funny, and I'm being generous. But SNL is a whole other topic, so I digress.

I think giving SNL 10-15% is EXTREMELY generous. That show reminds me of a high school performance, badly rehearsed.

wonder if NBC has recently contemplated changing the format of 'Tonight' away from the standard desk, band, 3 guest show that's been around for years and morphing it into something totally different.

Dump the skits and staged humor and put the spotlight on a wider collection of entertainers - not just people out publicizing their latest projects. And give them enough time to actually entertain. A ten or fifteen minute "interview" interrupted by a commercial break is not sufficient for any sort of momentum. Carson used to have people who were not even in show biz on (animal trainers and the like) and the variety was great AND produced some of the best known episodes.

The current late night talk show format pins the success of the show all on the host's shoulders... a HUGE gamble. Jay would be hard to replace, so a total format change for 'Tonight' would probably be more beneficial. Possibly a panel show where the celebrity guests are all on stage for the full hour instead of bringing them out one by one. Not necessarily talking about serious issues, but just BSing and having fun.

Putting the show's success totally on Leno's shoulders is obviously not working. Some other hosts may be much better suited for this role. But Tonight Show viewers do expect some sort of continuity so I'm not wild about the idea of having guest hosts. Someone needs to anchor if for nothing else than a catalyst. Merv Griffin knew how to do it. So did Mike Douglas.

And who says 'Tonight' has to have one host? People could guest host for a week and hand it off to somebody else.

I seem to remember the nights that Carson was off were not as well attended as when he hosted. It could have been the guest hosts (Joan Rivers sticks in my mind as my least favorite) or it could be that viewers expected to see Johnny and did not accept anyone else readily. Handing off the host job weekly smacks of SNL which, IMHO, is an ongoing disaster (except perhaps by gross 20-somethings who have had time to drink before watching).

Nobody's mentioned some of Dick Cavett's classic one-guest shows, with people like Groucho Marx, Katharine Hepburn, Alfred Hitchcock, and Orson Welles, to name a few. They certainly had to time to talk without being cut off after 10 or 15 minutes.

I, for one, would give just about anything to bring back the Mike/Merv format, at least in daytime. Part of the appeal of those shows was to have guests remain on the panel after their turn; you never knew what fireworks might erupt (for proof, read Steve Allen's "Funny People" chapter on Richard Pryor and read about how he heckled Milton Berle on Mike's show when Uncle Miltie was promoting his autobiography; things got very unpleasant between them, with Mike caught in the middle). In fact, I wish I were the host of such a show.

 

[DJ Tony]

Normally I don't have anything to say on these topics, but all of this, in my opinion, sums it up in one word: KARMA. People basically ran Conan out of town just to get Jay Leno back to the Tonight Show. Now what? Who's watching now? It is said that you can't bring the past back, but my gosh, I just wish that TV is now like what it used to be, TV shows that were actually watchable and stations that lived up to their names, i.e. MTV (MUSIC Television).

 

[landtuna]

I guess he still has Ross the Intern.

Ross, like Jerry Lewis, is one of those disgusting people that cause me to hit the remote button the instant they appear.

 

[TheBigA]

My point in mentioning Ross is that he seems to be the only foil left for Jay, now that John Melendez and Kevin Eubanks are gone.

His staff needs to develop some new characters for Jay to banter with. Look around the studio. Jimmy Kimmel has his Uncle Frank. Jimmy Falon has his announcer and The Roots. Craig Ferguson has the robot. Jay needs someone, because he alone can't drive that show.