Less Noisy Version of AM iBOC !

[davideduardo]

Please correct if I'am wrong, won't all major markets soon be passively (PPM) measured, eliminating the need for the participant to remember/specify what he was listening to?

No, only the top 50 markets will be PPM measured, and it will be over three years before all of them are up and running. By the end of next year, all the top 10 markets will be PPM measured, and in 2009 they start the second ten, like Boston and Miami, etc.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Who cares......IBOC doesnt belong on the am band!!

That is for the FCC to decide.

No. The marketplace will finally decide, just as with c-quam and all the other broadcast fiasco's and escapades.

1-The FCC made a ruling that IBOC will be the digital system for terrestrial radio. End of discussion.

2-The marketplace will slowly respond just like it did with FM. When the cost and power consumption of chips come down, HD will be incorporated into more radios. At that point, consumers that purchase radios will be HD compatable - even if they do not intend to buy an HD radio.

Point 1 is false-
The FCC gave final approval to FMeXtra before HD Radio, and that approval for FMeXtra is still in force.
FMeXtra makes short range, proprietary, interfering, problematic adjacent channel HD Radio redundant, unwanted, unnecessary, deficient and undesirable.

Point 2 -
Is only your opinion based on your projections, fantasy and myth.
Other new media technologies have already surpassed and superseded HD Radio with the public in popularity, utility, benefits, cost, practicality, novelty, reliability, choices, sources, portability, fidelity, and available programming. This strong trend is likely to continue in spite of HD Radio's best efforts to convince the public otherwise. Actual polls and surveys as well as HD radio's $500,000,000 failed promotions prove this is true, and that HD Radio will be relegated to the position of a small footnote in the future of media.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Who cares......IBOC doesnt belong on the am band!!

That is for the FCC to decide.

No. The marketplace will finally decide, just as with c-quam and all the other broadcast fiasco's and escapades.

1-The FCC made a ruling that IBOC will be the digital system for terrestrial radio. End of discussion.

2-The marketplace will slowly respond just like it did with FM. When the cost and power consumption of chips come down, HD will be incorporated into more radios. At that point, consumers that purchase radios will be HD compatable - even if they do not intend to buy an HD radio.

Point 1 is false-
The FCC gave final approval to FMeXtra before HD Radio, and that approval for FMeXtra is still in force.
FMeXtra makes short range, proprietary, interfering, problematic adjacent channel HD Radio redundant, unwanted, unnecessary, deficient and undesirable.

Point 2 -
Is only your opinion based on your projections, fantasy and myth.
Other new media technologies have already surpassed and superseded HD Radio with the public in popularity, utility, benefits, cost, practicality, novelty, reliability, choices, sources, portability, fidelity, and available programming. This strong trend is likely to continue in spite of HD Radio's best efforts to convince the public otherwise. Actual polls and surveys as well as HD radio's $500,000,000 failed promotions prove this is true, and that HD Radio will be relegated to the position of a small footnote in the future of media.

A new era for AM Radio is about to begin!

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[SUPERCASTER]

Who cares......IBOC doesnt belong on the am band!!

That is for the FCC to decide.

No. The marketplace will finally decide, just as with c-quam and all the other broadcast fiasco's and escapades.

1-The FCC made a ruling that IBOC will be the digital system for terrestrial radio. End of discussion.

2-The marketplace will slowly respond just like it did with FM. When the cost and power consumption of chips come down, HD will be incorporated into more radios. At that point, consumers that purchase radios will be HD compatable - even if they do not intend to buy an HD radio.

Point 1 is false-
The FCC gave final approval to FMeXtra before HD Radio, and that approval for FMeXtra is still in force.
FMeXtra makes short range, proprietary, interfering, problematic adjacent channel HD Radio redundant, unwanted, unnecessary, deficient and undesirable.

Point 2 -
Is only your opinion based on your projections, fantasy and myth.
Other new media technologies have already surpassed and superseded HD Radio with the public in popularity, utility, benefits, cost, practicality, novelty, reliability, choices, sources, portability, fidelity, and available programming. This strong trend is likely to continue in spite of HD Radio's best efforts to convince the public otherwise. Actual polls and surveys as well as HD radio's $500,000,000 failed promotions prove this is true, and that HD Radio will be relegated to the position of a small footnote in the future of media.

A new era error for AM Radio is about to begin!

0 5 0 0 1 2 5 1 2 0 0
days hours mins secs msecs

 

[R.F. Burns]

Who cares......IBOC doesnt belong on the am band!!

That is for the FCC to decide.

No. The marketplace will finally decide, just as with c-quam and all the other broadcast fiasco's and escapades.

1-The FCC made a ruling that IBOC will be the digital system for terrestrial radio. End of discussion.

2-The marketplace will slowly respond just like it did with FM. When the cost and power consumption of chips come down, HD will be incorporated into more radios. At that point, consumers that purchase radios will be HD compatable - even if they do not intend to buy an HD radio.

Point 1 is false-
The FCC gave final approval to FMeXtra before HD Radio, and that approval for FMeXtra is still in force.
FMeXtra makes short range, proprietary, interfering, problematic adjacent channel HD Radio redundant, unwanted, unnecessary, deficient and undesirable.

Point 2 -
Is only your opinion based on your projections, fantasy and myth.
Other new media technologies have already surpassed and superseded HD Radio with the public in popularity, utility, benefits, cost, practicality, novelty, reliability, choices, sources, portability, fidelity, and available programming. This strong trend is likely to continue in spite of HD Radio's best efforts to convince the public otherwise. Actual polls and surveys as well as HD radio's $500,000,000 failed promotions prove this is true, and that HD Radio will be relegated to the position of a small footnote in the future of media.

A new era for AM Radio is about to begin!

0 5 0 0 1 2 5 1 2 0 0
days hours mins secs msecs

You said we weren't here. Another false statement. Are we counting down to the start of night time IBOC or the start of your finding out just how much land your station is licensed to cover without interference? ;D Lots of reality trips are in store for radio operators over the next few weeks. Many of these stations are about to learn just what geography their licensed for. Wanna DX, buy a computer

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

Bingo!!! The FCC should have had enough brains to reserve 1600-1700 for digital sigs and we wouldn't have had this problem to begin with. Now our only hope for a sane digital for the MW band is to demand channel 6 TV for it's use when analog tv is shut off.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Who cares......IBOC doesnt belong on the am band!!

That is for the FCC to decide.

No. The marketplace will finally decide, just as with c-quam and all the other broadcast fiasco's and escapades.

1-The FCC made a ruling that IBOC will be the digital system for terrestrial radio. End of discussion.

2-The marketplace will slowly respond just like it did with FM. When the cost and power consumption of chips come down, HD will be incorporated into more radios. At that point, consumers that purchase radios will be HD compatable - even if they do not intend to buy an HD radio.

Point 1 is false-
The FCC gave final approval to FMeXtra before HD Radio, and that approval for FMeXtra is still in force.
FMeXtra makes short range, proprietary, interfering, problematic adjacent channel HD Radio redundant, unwanted, unnecessary, deficient and undesirable.

Point 2 -
Is only your opinion based on your projections, fantasy and myth.
Other new media technologies have already surpassed and superseded HD Radio with the public in popularity, utility, benefits, cost, practicality, novelty, reliability, choices, sources, portability, fidelity, and available programming. This strong trend is likely to continue in spite of HD Radio's best efforts to convince the public otherwise. Actual polls and surveys as well as HD radio's $500,000,000 failed promotions prove this is true, and that HD Radio will be relegated to the position of a small footnote in the future of media.

A new era for AM Radio is about to begin!

0 5 0 0 1 2 5 1 2 0 0
days hours mins secs msecs

You said we weren't here. ??? Another false statement. ???
Are we counting down to the start of night time IBOC or the start of your finding out just how much land your station is licensed to cover without interference? ;D ???
Lots of reality trips are in store for radio operators over the next few weeks. ;D
Many of these stations are about to learn just what geography their licensed for. ???Wanna DX, buy a computer See below!

I already have a computer. I'm here aren't I?

 

[R.F. Burns]

Who cares......IBOC doesnt belong on the am band!!

That is for the FCC to decide.

No. The marketplace will finally decide, just as with c-quam and all the other broadcast fiasco's and escapades.

1-The FCC made a ruling that IBOC will be the digital system for terrestrial radio. End of discussion.

2-The marketplace will slowly respond just like it did with FM. When the cost and power consumption of chips come down, HD will be incorporated into more radios. At that point, consumers that purchase radios will be HD compatable - even if they do not intend to buy an HD radio.

Point 1 is false-
The FCC gave final approval to FMeXtra before HD Radio, and that approval for FMeXtra is still in force.
FMeXtra makes short range, proprietary, interfering, problematic adjacent channel HD Radio redundant, unwanted, unnecessary, deficient and undesirable.

Point 2 -
Is only your opinion based on your projections, fantasy and myth.
Other new media technologies have already surpassed and superseded HD Radio with the public in popularity, utility, benefits, cost, practicality, novelty, reliability, choices, sources, portability, fidelity, and available programming. This strong trend is likely to continue in spite of HD Radio's best efforts to convince the public otherwise. Actual polls and surveys as well as HD radio's $500,000,000 failed promotions prove this is true, and that HD Radio will be relegated to the position of a small footnote in the future of media.

A new era for AM Radio is about to begin!

0 5 0 0 1 2 5 1 2 0 0
days hours mins secs msecs

You said we weren't here. ??? Another false statement. ???
Are we counting down to the start of night time IBOC or the start of your finding out just how much land your station is licensed to cover without interference? ;D ???
Lots of reality trips are in store for radio operators over the next few weeks. ;D
Many of these stations are about to learn just what geography their licensed for. ???Wanna DX, buy a computer See below!

I already have a computer. I'm here aren't I?

You really want me to answer that question?

 

[ropertex]

Noisy! Reduced range! People will have to buy new radios! More interference! Proprietary system requiring royalty payments! Conspiracy between the FCC, equipment manufacturers and the big broadcasters!

FM Stereo, 1961

 

[R.F. Burns]

Noisy! Reduced range! People will have to buy new radios! More interference! Proprietary system requiring royalty payments! Conspiracy between the FCC, equipment manufacturers and the big broadcasters!

FM Stereo, 1961

How dare you let facts interfere with perfectly good fear mongering.
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[SUPERCASTER]

Noisy! Reduced range! People will have to buy new radios! More interference! Proprietary system requiring royalty payments! Conspiracy between the FCC, equipment manufacturers and the big broadcasters!

FM Stereo, 1961

Who said that? You?

 

[Savage]

There was never any such debate about FM stereo in 1961 or at any time thereafter. Nor was there any expectation that broadcasters would have to pay annual royalties for use of what was then called "multiplex." And unlike IBOC, FM stereo was a proven, dependable, non-interfering technology then as well as now. It was completely compatible with mono FM, unlike AM-IBOC.

Nor was there a debate about any "conspiracy," nor predictions of increased noise or reduced transmission range.

Cite a specific example of the parallel you draw here, please, if you can.

 

[calstymes]

rbrucecarter5 pondered:

It could well be that Ibiquity knows how persistant the sidebands will be in the nighttime skywave

Of course iBiquity knows!

Everybody knows!

But nobody cares.

 

[LinoNYC]

There was never any such debate about FM stereo in 1961 or at any time thereafter. Nor was there any expectation that broadcasters would have to pay annual royalties for use of what was then called "multiplex." And unlike IBOC, FM stereo was a proven, dependable, non-interfering technology then as well as now. It was completely compatible with mono FM, unlike AM-IBOC.

Nor was there a debate about any "conspiracy," nor predictions of increased noise or reduced transmission range.

Cite a specific example of the parallel you draw here, please, if you can.

Much like iboc and NTSC color, FM stereo requires strong, clean signals. I remember one of the major complaints regarding FMS was that it made the noise floor much higher and we discovered even here in Manhattan this was true when we bought a new Fisher receiver in 1966, fortunately it had a "mono" switch.
There were people who claimed that stereo was 'just a way to make you buy two amps and speakers" -just as they claimed for quad in the early 70s.


Color tv required much better reception than B&W it also needed better antennas and feed line. Manufacturers cleaned up on "color approved" items.

The only thing missing back then was a venue for crackpot "conspiracy" theories.

We have that now.

Lino

 

[JohnnyElectron]

My question of the day is: Why would an FM want to put a public service on HD3 when he can make it a subscription station? I would like to see all FM's put the local NOAA Weather Radio station on HD3, but would they have to pay iBiquity a fee to do that?

 

[semoochie]

I don't believe FMeXtra received final approval per se. I think it was more like it didn't ask for anything that wasn't already covered by existing rules and regulations. You can put just about anything on an SCA channel you want as long as it isn't obscene or otherwise illegal.

 

[Play Freebird]

There was never any such debate about FM stereo in 1961 or at any time thereafter. Nor was there any expectation that broadcasters would have to pay annual royalties for use of what was then called "multiplex." And unlike IBOC, FM stereo was a proven, dependable, non-interfering technology then as well as now. It was completely compatible with mono FM, unlike AM-IBOC.

You're correct. In 1961, the FCC acknowledged that the developers of the approved FM Stereo system (Zenith and GE) would be entitled to patent royalties (from equipment manufacturers), but required such payments to be reasonable, and also made it clear that licenses to manufacture FM Stereo equipment must be non-exclusive. The proposed cost of stereo receivers was a major factor in the FCC decision -- one reason they favored Zenith/GE (System 4-4a) over Crosby (System 1) was that the decoder could be manufactured for less than $8 rather than $50 to 100.

At that time, the Commission's patent policies were "designed to obviate any restraint of trade or monopolistic practices in matters coming within its cognizance", however when I read that an HD chipset adds $50 to the manufacturing cost of a receiver, I have my doubts that the FCC's IBOC decision still conforms to those principles.

The full text of the FCC's FM Stereo R and O is available here; see Para. 30 and 31 for receiver cost estimates and Para. 35 for a discussion of royalty issues:

http://sujan.hallikainen.org/BroadcastHistory/uploads/FM_Stereo_Final_RandO.pdf


See also this FCC statement concerning patent disclosure and unreasonable royalties:

http://www.gtwassociates.com/answers/fccipr.htm

 

[Tom Wells]

Returning this thread to the less noisy AM iBOC, has anyone else noted this deployment in other markets?
Someone on Long Island should be able to tell, I would think NYC AMs have gotten this upgrade.
I have no doubts about what I've heard in Chicago on my 1972 Motorola tuned RF-superhet.
But this week....
The awful 2004 Hyundai radio makes it impossible to tell for sure here in Mpls, seems 830 WCCO and KSTP 1500 are still be the noisy
iBOCs...... this radio is so deaf I can't tell if the hiss is just a weak sig or iBOC.

I am the only one who has heard the improved version? Hard to believe.

I built my CRT type TV into a wall with sound insulation, with a sealed plate glass panel over the screen.
I built -42db 15 khz notch filters into the speaker circuits.
All this because the horizontal sweep output gives me headaches.
A few nights ago, I was at the audio control ctr, and KNEW the TV was on, despite the black screen.
I confidently grabbed the remote, and turned it off.

I don't know how I have managed to keep my hearing so good, maybe earplugs have really been a blessing.
I am concerned that no one else has noticed such a change which I detected easily.

 

[davideduardo]

There was never any such debate about FM stereo in 1961 or at any time thereafter. Nor was there any expectation that broadcasters would have to pay annual royalties for use of what was then called "multiplex." And unlike IBOC, FM stereo was a proven, dependable, non-interfering technology then as well as now. It was completely compatible with mono FM, unlike AM-IBOC.

Yet it took four years for the first 100 FM stereo stations to go on the air. And it took FM roughly 35 years to be broadly viable.

 

[notalent]

there is no new "less noisy" or any other new version of AM IBOC being deployed.

There is however more being learned by engineers about how to properly tune their antenna systems to eliminate that noise.

What you may be noticing is the result of this knowledge being deployed.