Interesting read in All Access about management telling the likes of Ryan Seacrest and Kevin and Bean to shut up in the morning and play more music to increase their PPM numbers. Wonder if this is a sign of things to come for the likes of KZOK and KISW with all talk in the am.
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LESS TALK, MORE MUSIC?
- Thread starter Mamaknowsbreast
- Start date
S
Seattleradiodude
Guest
That was actually some pretty funny audio on Seacrests Side! Reminded me a little bit of how T-Man talks about managment.
As far as KISW and KZOK? Probably. CBS is cost cutting everywhere and to see KJR beating them almost everywhere in PPM, Bob and the crew will most likely be cut back.
KISW is in an interesting situation with their hybrid Talk/ Music format they have going. Entercomm has some decisions to make alright!
As far as KISW and KZOK? Probably. CBS is cost cutting everywhere and to see KJR beating them almost everywhere in PPM, Bob and the crew will most likely be cut back.
KISW is in an interesting situation with their hybrid Talk/ Music format they have going. Entercomm has some decisions to make alright!
L
lankypup
Guest
Maybe Fisher can get Kirby Wilbur to play a little music to perk things up PPM-wise...
Less talk, more music = iPod.
I listen to the radio to hear talk. If I want music I can & will program my own.
I listen to the radio to hear talk. If I want music I can & will program my own.
A
AQH
Guest
JustaLissner said:
Too bad the majority of folks who wear the meters don't agree with you.
Personally, I think you need talk, but only if it adds to the program. For example, a knowledgeable host talking about the music or a DJ that sets the tone of the "show" -- someone like the emcee of a variety-type stage show. You need them to give intros, warm up the audience, make important announcements... tie the whole thing together. You get problems if you go too far in either direction. All music = iPod and massive doses of self-indulgent chatter are just exhausting.
News flash.. The vast majority of music radio listeners aren't radio hobby nerds or DXers, but people looking for free music.
In focus groups and now reinforced by recent PPM data, people don't want to hear some twenty-something talk about his concert experiences or band trivia. Just play music and shut up seems to win in the 21st Century.
In focus groups and now reinforced by recent PPM data, people don't want to hear some twenty-something talk about his concert experiences or band trivia. Just play music and shut up seems to win in the 21st Century.
Let's say it seems to win this week
If the Industry hangs its hat on hard drives segwaying music, it will have a hard time competing in the future... since commercial free music is already on your phone and computer and soon to be in your car.
Right now we're getting a "sugar high" for voice tracking thanks to PPM, a new form of measurement that treats all media exposure as equal.
The diary over rewarded popular shows because listeners voted for them with their pens. These listeners also voted with their wallets and bought products from advertisers.
The PPM over rewards background exposure to stations that are not making as strong a personal relationship to the audience. One might suspect they don't connect as well for the advertisers either, but who can say?
A
AQH
Guest
jupiter2 said:
I seem to recall the same argument was made with the advent of the VCR.
jupiter2 said:
What are the indicators that we're "off" this "sugar high?"
jupiter2 said:
That's because many voted with other criteria than actual listening.
In most PPM markets the stations that are number one 25-54 have heritage, live and local staffs and promote. It is true for every market from LA to Minneapolis to Washington DC to Seattle. Format does not seem to matter. In LA its CHR, in Minneapolis its Rock, in DC its All news, Detroit its sports, Seattle Hot/AC. The common factors are heritage in format, live and local and promotion.
jupiter2 said:
Actually stations in other markets that have been measured with PPM have shown the actual measured listening habits for more than a week.
jupiter2 said:
Two points and a question; commercial free music isn't free to the listener. One has to pay ITunes, Amazon, or whomever for the music. Over the air radio is free. Big difference.
Regarding your comment about listeners buying products from advertisers during the former diary method; you really don't think that advertisers would buy products or services via radio measured by a more accurate ratings method? Really? Do you buy advertising from radio stations? Do you have some insider knowledge about the buying rationale of advertisers? No, I didn't think so..
Wow. You've never heard of Pandora? Ever hear of the Internet. Commercial Free music will be dirt cheap and soon everywhere, including in your car. Juke Box spot robots will work in the short term, but are not a long term strategy for broadcasters.
And the point about exposure vs passion is that not all listening is equal. There's "paying attention" and there's "things that are on in the background". I simply thing we've traded one innacurate system for another innacurate system, that just happens to reward cheap programming.
If advertisers want results, they may get more bang per measured thousand from stations people actually are passionate about, as opposed to automated radio that's on all day in the backgound. Just my 2 cents.
Again, BOTH measurements have their strengths and weaknesses.
Actually I sit on two committees related to future delivery of music and information via the Internet.
If you think that music will be delivered free via WiMax or whatever to your car, you are sadly misinformed. Just as with traditional radio, it costs money to pay music royalties and deliver music and someone will have to pay for it. If you want music to be delivered to your car or other mobile device, just as with ITunes who set the bar, you will pay a subscription or purchase fee.
Satellite radio tried to compete with traditional radio with a combination of subscription costs and national ads, but it didn't even scratch the surface.
Will there be ways to cheat the system for free as the old music sharing sites? Probably, but as with today the vast majority of people commuting in their car or while at work, will still choose free, legal ways of listening to music and news via radio.
If you think that music will be delivered free via WiMax or whatever to your car, you are sadly misinformed. Just as with traditional radio, it costs money to pay music royalties and deliver music and someone will have to pay for it. If you want music to be delivered to your car or other mobile device, just as with ITunes who set the bar, you will pay a subscription or purchase fee.
Satellite radio tried to compete with traditional radio with a combination of subscription costs and national ads, but it didn't even scratch the surface.
Will there be ways to cheat the system for free as the old music sharing sites? Probably, but as with today the vast majority of people commuting in their car or while at work, will still choose free, legal ways of listening to music and news via radio.
Well then you know that the subscription fee for Pandora with NO COMMERCIALS is 36 bucks a year, and you should know that the failure of Satellite Radio is a poor argument for future success of a declining business model.
Satellite radio is another over leveraged Wall Street Flop.
In the future, the free option may still be there, but do you really see anything like today's spotload and huge ratings for any jukebox when there are thousands of interactive customizable stations?
Change is coming fast. I wouldn't bet on jukeboxes long term, that's all. And you know I am right.
While you're on this topic why don't you tell everyone how cool HD Radio will be? I could use another chuckle.
I should have known by your pandering to the status quo that you are a "committee" type of person.
Satellite radio is another over leveraged Wall Street Flop.
In the future, the free option may still be there, but do you really see anything like today's spotload and huge ratings for any jukebox when there are thousands of interactive customizable stations?
Change is coming fast. I wouldn't bet on jukeboxes long term, that's all. And you know I am right.
While you're on this topic why don't you tell everyone how cool HD Radio will be? I could use another chuckle.
I should have known by your pandering to the status quo that you are a "committee" type of person.
jupiter2 said:
But radio isn't a declining business model, quite the opposite. Advertising, no matter in what the medium utilized is down as a byproduct of the recent economic climate.
Satellite radio has it's place as a media entity, but was built under the wrong assumption. That being a solution in search of a problem. To be fair, the same comparison can be made for HD radio.
jupiter2 said:
It's an oversimplfication to say that "people want...(fill in the blanks)".
In this age of supersized fragmentation, the number one station in many markets is NOT listened to by 94% or more of the audience. It does appear that it is virtually impossible over a long-period of time to satisfy more than 4-6 % of the population no matter what combination of talk, music, banter, entertainment, information, you offer.
There are stations that over the years slowly evolve, avoiding sudden change, and they tend to maintain market share. Then there are the many that try something different every 2 years and never develop a long-term listener base.
The common denominator with the "heritage" stations is consistency and evolution (slow change). How many does Seattle have?
Background, foreground... random thoughts... more people listen foreground in the morning, looking for time, temp, weather, news, laughter, mood elevation, etc. Listening changes for many as the day wears on, with forced passive listening in the bank lobby, grocery store, etc., or in the office. How do we separate the variables for our clients? How do we explain to them that their message is still being heard, even when the listening is not intentional? Is an agency buyer going to make sudden buying changes because the methodology has changed and he/she has no other measurement?
In this age of supersized fragmentation, the number one station in many markets is NOT listened to by 94% or more of the audience. It does appear that it is virtually impossible over a long-period of time to satisfy more than 4-6 % of the population no matter what combination of talk, music, banter, entertainment, information, you offer.
There are stations that over the years slowly evolve, avoiding sudden change, and they tend to maintain market share. Then there are the many that try something different every 2 years and never develop a long-term listener base.
The common denominator with the "heritage" stations is consistency and evolution (slow change). How many does Seattle have?
Background, foreground... random thoughts... more people listen foreground in the morning, looking for time, temp, weather, news, laughter, mood elevation, etc. Listening changes for many as the day wears on, with forced passive listening in the bank lobby, grocery store, etc., or in the office. How do we separate the variables for our clients? How do we explain to them that their message is still being heard, even when the listening is not intentional? Is an agency buyer going to make sudden buying changes because the methodology has changed and he/she has no other measurement?
I thought it was interesting that Ryan's little comment came out the same week that Alan Burns released a study that a lot of the non-music content on radio often doesn't relate to the audience.
Ryan's bosses weren't telling him to stop talking completely. They were saying he should be more efficient. Make his words count. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone should be told that. Too much idle chatter on the radio today.
As Ryan becomes bigger and richer, he becomes less relatable to his audience. He vacations in places they'll never go. He lives in a neighborhood they can never afford. He doesn't have time to associate with his listeners and know what they're talking about. He knows the people he works with, the celebrities he sees, and his friends. That's what he knows and what he talks about. Someone has to take that experience and make sure he stays focused on the subjects the audience is interested in.
Ryan's bosses weren't telling him to stop talking completely. They were saying he should be more efficient. Make his words count. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone should be told that. Too much idle chatter on the radio today.
As Ryan becomes bigger and richer, he becomes less relatable to his audience. He vacations in places they'll never go. He lives in a neighborhood they can never afford. He doesn't have time to associate with his listeners and know what they're talking about. He knows the people he works with, the celebrities he sees, and his friends. That's what he knows and what he talks about. Someone has to take that experience and make sure he stays focused on the subjects the audience is interested in.
TVRADIO GURU says
Wow. Really?
You really believe the current economic climate is just a bump in the road? You don't see a huge sea change of new competition when 4G Broadband hits the auto? You haven't noticed massive staff reductions that have taken once proud brand name living breathing Radio Stations serving their communities and turned them into voice tracked lifeless automated spot players? You say that is "quite the opposite" of declining? Have you counted how many Newspapers are left in Seattle, and how many pages of advertising are in them?
THE BIG A
If Ryans Bosses knew how to talk on the radio, they would. You guys sound like DJ school dropouts. Jeez. Ryan's bosses are reacting to a new methodology. I get that. I guess I am just sad to see that there are still numbnutz out there who want to strip radio of what little personality remains.
Will the last DJ please turn out the lights so the management programmed server boxes can win big and make our industry proud of itself?
Wow. Really?
You really believe the current economic climate is just a bump in the road? You don't see a huge sea change of new competition when 4G Broadband hits the auto? You haven't noticed massive staff reductions that have taken once proud brand name living breathing Radio Stations serving their communities and turned them into voice tracked lifeless automated spot players? You say that is "quite the opposite" of declining? Have you counted how many Newspapers are left in Seattle, and how many pages of advertising are in them? THE BIG A
If Ryans Bosses knew how to talk on the radio, they would. You guys sound like DJ school dropouts. Jeez. Ryan's bosses are reacting to a new methodology. I get that. I guess I am just sad to see that there are still numbnutz out there who want to strip radio of what little personality remains.
Will the last DJ please turn out the lights so the management programmed server boxes can win big and make our industry proud of itself?
jupiter2 said:
As Bob Dylan once said, we all serve somebody. When Ryan is broadcasting on KIIS, he serves his bosses there. If they tell him to talk a little less, it's his job to do what they say. If he doesn't like it, he'll have the option when his contract is up to put a clause in it (as many similar talents have done) that the bosses can't tell him what to do. Perhaps he's telegraphing to them what they have in store next time.
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