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Let's talk about the Tri-Cities ratings!

P

Pratte4Life

WTFM is now ahead of WQUT.

WJCW moves ahead of WFHG again. That's a trend I think will continue since WFHG's signal just isn't all that good in Johnson City and now WJCW is carrying Hannity for three hours while WFHG is still keeping him on second-string status for two hours.

Only hope for WFHG in this war is Michael Savage- but I can't imagine 7-10 p.m. numbers will carry enough of an impact.

How in the world can WXIS be getting 3.0's now? What are they doing?

Will WGOC still be able to keep respectable numbers on 1320? And will WXSM be able to keep that number?

Here's an idea- before The Sports Monster sports talk radio around here meant automation and on weak AM signals.

WFHG-AM showed up in the book- whereas WKIN did not- showing that perhaps such listeners were more cozy to either the 980 signal than 1320.

With that in mind- might WFHG-AM go to classic country in the future- which Bristol Broadcasting would probably be able to sell better than their current format?

The story in the Z-Rock/HOG war isn't so much that Z-Rock came out 0.4 ahead. It's that Z-Rock dropped 25% of its total audience.

In fact, all the rock stations- even those who pull in WIMZ out of Knoxville- took a hit. Why?

And I suppose now that Matt Hill has been re-elected- there is no reason to listen to Power Talk anymore.
 
Nothing to discuss. It's a trend. They mean nothing. Even less accurate than the actually book, if thats possible.
 
That last book where Z-Rock went up to 4th place in adults 12-plus was a real wet, sloppy french kiss for BBC. I don't think they can sustain that momentum. Sorry. If I am wrong, I will be the first to say so, but that's just my opinion. Though I think they will still beat WRZK, especially in that males 18-34, with WRZK seemingly adding more classic rock. I just don't get it. You're not going to beat WQUT and you're only going to send your loyal listeners for the last 10 years running to Z-Rock.
The idea is to skew the demo older to get more buys from car dealers and more beer advertising, but I don't think it's gonna work in this market. All you're doing is upsetting alt/modern rock fans who hate classic rock and upsetting classic rock fans who hate the new stuff. Granted, there are listeners who like both, but "Everything that Rocks"...I don't buy it. Going from Linkin Park to Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd or Skynyrd? It don't work. WRZK could beat Z-Rock, if they would just go balls-to-the-wall, in your face and tell Z-Rock where to go.
I am proud of what we did at WRZK from about 1998-2002. We were starting to take off and dig out a nice little niche. We weren't going to ever really compete with XBQ or QUT, but that station could have been a solid number four, in my opinion, even with Z-Rock in the mix...even today. But not with this Hog format.

I do think we'll go back up a little (WQUT), WTFM will too. WXBQ might go down a little, but when you are over a 20 share, does it really matter that much? Z-Rock will come back down, with Electric going up a bit.

What I am really curious to see will be next book with the changes to our AM stations here at Citadel. Now with 640 going all sports with the Monster and WJCW going to a primarily talk-oriented format, with less emphasis on sports and 1320 taking the classic country format and the WGOC calls, it has the potential to be a positive move. This market has needed a high-powered sports station. Plus with the addition of Sean Hannity with Rush Limbaugh on WJCW, that's a pretty potent one-two punch for middays and afternoon drive.
 
Nothing to discuss. It's a trend. They mean nothing. Even less accurate than the actually book, if that’s possible.

True the "actual book" is garbage! Based on 1/10th of the population... maybe!

Ya know, what you people don't understand though is that these "trends" account for 1/3 of the ratings.... Granted Arbitron sucks! And is at least 10 years behind... but it is all we have to go with. So that brings up a new question, what will happen to the "landscape" in the TRI, when the PPM finally makes it here? My guess (don't hate!) Is that it will "level" the playing field.... XBQ will-NOT be the POWERHOUSE it is, along with TFM and whoever else... (happening across the country, Oh wait - you haters are going to say "that is only in major markets..." well guess who YOU look at when YOU are not sure about a song.....) and you will be surprised at what people are ACTUALLY listening to.... just some thoughts... response... we'll see who is where with this one!

OUT!
 
1/10th of the population is way to big!!! Read the disclaimer at the bottom of arbitrends and it basically says they are usless. A certian demo may have returned 8 total diaries in any given trend......and that factors into that phase of the book. The numbers have not yet been adjusted. I can't believe we (radio people) get excited or bummed over trends. Human nature I suppose.

PPM, level playing field indeed. But those things come with there own set of flaws.

I think we'll find a bunch of button pushing going on.......lowering tsl on some and increasing cume on others. I still think the 3 stations with total market coverage will look good. They still have one thing that the other stations can do nothing about: BIG STICKS!!
 
No way of sampling the market is going to be perfect. Even if there was a way of contacting every person in a particular market over the age of 12, there would still be problems, such as somebody forgetting the call letters of frequency of the stations to which they listen or simply not taking the diary too seriously.
I have to agree with bored-op. PPM's are going to be a huge improvement on the current method of sampling, just not perfect, either.
And the reason why most of us get our panties in a bunch about trends (and when I say most, I mean PD's and SM's) is because we usually have a GM that wants to know why we are down on in (fill in your key demographic) around (fill in the number of points you are down). Numbers go down and so do your advertising cost-per-points. It's sad that we all get so stressed out about such matters, when in the grand scheme of things, nobody is going remember the Summer 2001 book when your station dropped two or three points in females 25-54 when they're delivering your eulogy thirty years from now...unless it's David Widener giving it. He actually might remember that!
Other than him, I kind of doubt it. Just an educated guess here, people! Have a super weekend!
 
Sorry Pratt....didn't mean to write like I was pulling the trigger.

Trends are raw numbers....Arb has not compensated for lack of returns yet. The second tier stations and out of market stations tell the tale of where diaries come back from, kinda. The problem is if you only get 10 returns for a demo, one or two good diaries can really swing a demo for or against stations. Volitile demos (younger ones) and signal hampered stations tend to see the biggest swings.

PPM is the new personal people meter. Here's my admittedly uninformed take on how this thing is supposed to work:

Its a device that looks like a pager, picks up station thumbprints like mediabase does music, and stores it. At the end of the day, the user docks it and it gets charged and arb can retrieve the info. I also heard that an arbitron recruit will have it for 2 years.

First, Try to get anyone between 12 and 35 to wear anything that looks like a pager. And then get them to remember to dock it. Or carry it. Or how bout leaving it at the house with the radio on for a day!!!! Diaries don't work and this thing is trading one set of flaws for another.

I have not paid that much attention to this new thingamajig, so I might have it wrong. It might work great. We'll have to give it a chance whether we want to on not.......Arbitron is the only game in town.
 
I've filled out diaries before.

The problem that I see is for instance- let us say you listened to Sean Hannity.

Well- there are two stations that Hannity is on in the market. Conceivably, a longtime Hannity listener gets the book and listens to the show on WJCW- yet he writes in WFHG because that's the station he always listened to it on.

Same thing will happen with WXSM. Tons of Bill Meade's listeners are going to write in "WJCW" when they are actually listening to WXSM, because for 17 years they listened to the guy on WJCW and the switch is relatively new.

Heck, WXSM listeners might even write in WGOC.

Now, as far as carrying the pager- if I'm paid and I think I'll have some influence- I think I will do that.

12-34s carry cell phones everywhere they go. Why not this?
 
bored-op said:
1/10th of the population is way to big!!!
Click to expand...

Sorry what I meant to say was.... 1/10th of 1% maybe.

And here is a crazy thought.... What did broadcasters do before ratings? They still made money... they still sold advertising... they still had "promotions..." What if everyone got together and - just didn't spend X amount of dollars to purchase something that NO-ONE believes in and is so grossly inaccurate? I think that would make radio a fun place to work again, and here is another crazy thought, sell on results, businesses that see an increase in sells, will buy more advertising, plain and simple! I am still amazed that these companies spend millions and millions of dollars on something that is so inaccurate, hell give me a few grand and I'll tell you the ratings for ANY market, and I guarantee I will be just as accurate as Arbitron....

Sure you’re tired of hearing my rant by now...

So I am off like a prom dress!
 
Pratt, there is a big difference in the Moto Razr and a old school clunky pager.

And truth speaks the truth. I've often thought that all the major players in a market should get together and tell arb to shove it. It would save the "raping fees" they pay.

I've often said that sales is the best indicator of how a station is doing. If people like it and believe in it, they buy it. Some agencies buy numbers only, but a bunch of advertisers buy what they like......and some buy because of a relationship with the station or someone at it. Talk radio, in most cases, is not driven by ratings.........but they make money.......thats a good example.

But again, arbitron is the only game in town.....so we deal with it. Bring back Birch!!! At least arb had some competition.
 
Fine. But much like polls in elections- they drive the industry.

I presented several discussion points- why rock has lost some popularity in the market and rap has gone up

How the sports station will fare and if people will follow Classic Country to 1320?

Why do two talk stations carry the same show at the same time?

Are these moves going to change some station's formats?

And the people on here essentially said "We're right- the messenger is wrong!"

I get from that "Heads All Empty- We Don't Care!"
 
Rock vs. Rap..........diary placement, PUR is down, strength of the product that is out. None of the stations are doing anything drastically different except the Hog and that has not seemed to help them. Once again, this is all from a trend. lets wait for the full book then discuss further. With three rock formatted stations in the Tri, I don't think you can rightly say rock has lost popularity. All consistantly, over time, out perform the only signal impaired rap format. And on top of that, the population's demographic and ethnic make up here has not changed in the last 2 or 3 months, that I'm aware of.

Sports. Don't know alot about it, but it is a niche format so I really don't see it or any sports station being a serious player as far as ratings. It might make a little money, though. Classic country on AM. Its AM. Old folks and shut ins and hardcore classic country fans with find some novelty in it.

Two talk stations carrying the same show has got me scratching my head. Seems like there might be some politics at play. Who's gonna blink first?

Format changes.....Looking at the top 10 or 15 stations, I really don't see anyone dumping a format. I might speculate that the Hog would again, but I wouldn't count on that for a year or better.....and if the "everything that rocks" actually makes some inroads, they'll stick with it. I still contend the hog is trying to take Qut down a notch to bump Tfm up one......If that part of the equation fails, I'd bet on an all classic rock format.
 
I would say there is a lot of politics in two talk stations carrying the same show. But it's no weirder than UT sports being on WKOS and WKPT for years. We (WKPT) about lost UT completely when WKOS got it, but some politicking got it back, and voila, two stations in the same city had UT football, basketball and VolCalls. At least now, WQUT is not licensed in Kingsport. On football anyways. It makes great sense for Host, but not WKPT. I wasn't happy about it at the time, but situations have made that a moot point. I don't seem to mind it as much now.
And is a sports station gonna be number one? Doubtful. But there are a lot of people (me included) that like sports and talk, as a whole. And yes, it does make money when you do it well and have a good product, like WXSM now has with ESPN and some good local shows like SportsLine. And that MONSTER (no pun intended) signal.
In this market, however, what is niche, anyways? Seems like the only two things that consistently do well are country and classic rock. I guess you could make the same argument for AC, but I think it's even niche to a point. Look at CHR/Top 40. It's barely a Top 5 format in this market. It got beat out by country, classic rock, AC, modern/alt rock. Let's face it. This is an odd market. Not bad, just different.
 
It's really not that hard to figure out regarding Hannity being on 2 different stations. My guess is Citadel now has the contract, BBC has what about a 60 day out (Why they continue to no run someone else's show, not sure). Confusing from a listener/Arbitron stand point, yes. Really worthy of lengthy discussion, no.
 
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