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Let's talk MUSIC formats here!!!!

S

sixpack

Sooo...

KOB-AM is Number one. KAGM is at the bottom. Everyone knows that!
ENOUGH ALREADY!!

How about the forgotten MUSIC PLAYING stations in this market?

C'mon guys (and gals), pick a format!!!!!!

How about CHR?

Kiss is running away with it by default.
Anyone knows if you'd get a good PD with a company and sales staff backing you AND a good 100,00 watt signal, u can give KKSS a good run for their money. Maybe even win.

KABQ-FM is a joke. No threat at all. Too much Spanish/Reggaeton. Ratings show it already.

KOB-FM is way too conservative to win. Who in the South Valley or Westside is gonna listen to KOB when youre overplaying "scars" by Papa Roach and KKSS is playing the new Jamie Foxx/Ludacris joint at the same time?

How about Rock?

KZRR is a DEFAULT radio station. 25-54 men listen because there is no REAL competitor. KIOT? KBZU? Get real. Old fogeys.

KTEG One word--default.

No one can compete with KMGA. They will always be the #1 AC in the market.

KABG will get ratings by default too.

KSYU can maintain a 3 share by just holding off KQBT. KQBT is trying to be a rhythmic ED-FM. NO jocks. No promotions. Too bad. They will lose.

How about Country?

What a bad Country book.
KBQI has a better morning show, but weak jocks throughout the day. KRST should be able to overcome the defecit with strong middays, afternoons, nights and weekends. KKRG will just depend on diary placement.

KLVO: Impressive, however they will fluctuate with Spanish vs. English speaking diary holders.

Comments????
 
> Kiss is running away with it by default.
> Anyone knows if you'd get a good PD with a company and sales
> staff backing you AND a good 100,00 watt signal, u can give
> KKSS a good run for their money. Maybe even win.

No matter how well you do, there's only so much good money available
in the format. Only room for one station in the format.

> KABQ-FM is a joke. No threat at all. Too much
> Spanish/Reggaeton. Ratings show it already.

"too much spanish/reggaeton" - isn't that the format? Agree
that the station isn't going anywhere...and you've got to wonder
what they were thinking - other than rolling it out due to CC's
push to get the format out in various markets - some markets made
sense - some didn't.

> KOB-FM is way too conservative to win. Who in the South
> Valley or Westside is gonna listen to KOB when youre
> overplaying "scars" by Papa Roach and KKSS is playing the
> new Jamie Foxx/Ludacris joint at the same time?

I don't think KOB-FM ever intended to go after the KKSS audience.
They appear to be doing quite well. They are pretty consistent
12+, and I'm betting they do very well in their target demos.

> How about Rock?
>
> KZRR is a DEFAULT radio station. 25-54 men listen because
> there is no REAL competitor. KIOT? KBZU? Get real. Old
> fogeys.

KZRR is in a nice spot. While Active rock is dying all over the
country, 94 Rock is pretty consistent with a well-established
morning show. Sure, someone can come in and compete - but its a
long road and splitting shares means nobody wins.

> KTEG One word--default.

And a bad signal. But there's room for only one..bad signal or
not. Zone couldn't make it.

> No one can compete with KMGA. They will always be the #1 AC
> in the market.

Heritage.

> KABG will get ratings by default too.

Only room for one oldies.

> KSYU can maintain a 3 share by just holding off KQBT. KQBT
> is trying to be a rhythmic ED-FM. NO jocks. No promotions.
> Too bad. They will lose.

KQBT appears to be just playing the position as "spoiler".

> How about Country?
> What a bad Country book.

Agreed. The format will rebound next book.
 
Kiss FM and KOB-FM are two totally different stations. 93-3 KOB is a TRUE CHR/Pop station while 97.3 Kiss FM is a Hip Hop CHR/Rhythmic outlet.
 
> Kiss FM and KOB-FM are two totally different stations. 93-3
> KOB is a TRUE CHR/Pop station while 97.3 Kiss FM is a Hip
> Hop CHR/Rhythmic outlet.

I agree. However I tend to like KKSS a lot better, but with Univision being put up for sale one has to wonder who'll end up grabbing 97.3.
 
Talk FM Flash > Diane Anderson will rejoin KAGM (sans Mark) before the end of the month and join Larry Ahrens in the morning show. The entire concept of Talk FM only works if you follow CBS's FreeFM format playing in Los Angeles, Chicago and other big markets.



> Sooo...
>
> KOB-AM is Number one. KAGM is at the bottom. Everyone knows
> that!
> ENOUGH ALREADY!!
>
> How about the forgotten MUSIC PLAYING stations in this
> market?
>
> C'mon guys (and gals), pick a format!!!!!!
>
> How about CHR?
>
> Kiss is running away with it by default.
> Anyone knows if you'd get a good PD with a company and sales
> staff backing you AND a good 100,00 watt signal, u can give
> KKSS a good run for their money. Maybe even win.
>
> KABQ-FM is a joke. No threat at all. Too much
> Spanish/Reggaeton. Ratings show it already.
>
> KOB-FM is way too conservative to win. Who in the South
> Valley or Westside is gonna listen to KOB when youre
> overplaying "scars" by Papa Roach and KKSS is playing the
> new Jamie Foxx/Ludacris joint at the same time?
>
> How about Rock?
>
> KZRR is a DEFAULT radio station. 25-54 men listen because
> there is no REAL competitor. KIOT? KBZU? Get real. Old
> fogeys.
>
> KTEG One word--default.
>
> No one can compete with KMGA. They will always be the #1 AC
> in the market.
>
> KABG will get ratings by default too.
>
> KSYU can maintain a 3 share by just holding off KQBT. KQBT
> is trying to be a rhythmic ED-FM. NO jocks. No promotions.
> Too bad. They will lose.
>
> How about Country?
>
> What a bad Country book.
> KBQI has a better morning show, but weak jocks throughout
> the day. KRST should be able to overcome the defecit with
> strong middays, afternoons, nights and weekends. KKRG will
> just depend on diary placement.
>
> KLVO: Impressive, however they will fluctuate with Spanish
> vs. English speaking diary holders.
>
> Comments????
>
 
> How about CHR?
> Kiss is running away with it by default.
> Anyone knows if you'd get a good PD with a company and sales
> staff backing you AND a good 100,00 watt signal, u can give
> KKSS a good run for their money. Maybe even win.

Kiss is more urban than CHR. Yes, it does very well, and it may or may not be due to the lack of competition. Certainly, it had its troubles when competing with Wild 106.3, enough that Wild forced it out of the format to CHR for a year or two. However, it went back to hip-hop, clobbered Wild, and never has looked back. I have heard rumors that Clear Channel has been looking to take KABQ-FM in a KKSS-style direction, which would be a good, or at least a better, move IMHO. I think, though, that you figured out the problem with hip-hop, which is that it's hard to get the sales staff to back the format. I worked in a cluster not too long ago that had a rhythmic CHR that was almost straight ahead urban, and it was a tough sell at best. It hit #1 12+ and 18-34 in the market several times, but the perception to advertisers was that the station had an undesirable audience.

> KABQ-FM is a joke. No threat at all. Too much
> Spanish/Reggaeton. Ratings show it already.

Agreed. It needs to go.

> KOB-FM is way too conservative to win. Who in the South
> Valley or Westside is gonna listen to KOB when youre
> overplaying "scars" by Papa Roach and KKSS is playing the
> new Jamie Foxx/Ludacris joint at the same time?

KOB-FM is actually doing quite well. It may never get back to the levels it was at in the late 80's/early 90's, but it does very well in its target demo and is almost certainly easier to sell than KKSS. It's not after listeners in the South Valley and the Westside, and I doubt it will start going after those listeners anytime soon.

> KZRR is a DEFAULT radio station. 25-54 men listen because
> there is no REAL competitor. KIOT? KBZU? Get real. Old
> fogeys.

KZRR has a lot of heritage behind it, and that's certainly valuable. However, I think there's plenty of room for the other stations out there. KIOT does quite well, and KBZU bills a lot better than the 12+ ratings would indicate.

> KTEG One word--default.

How soon you forget. KTEG had a competitor in 103.3 The Zone that had a better signal, identical music, and a similar presentation. KTEG is still around. The Zone isn't. You do the math.

> No one can compete with KMGA. They will always be the #1 AC
> in the market.

I actually think KMGA would be ripe for competition right now. When you consider that John Tesh and Delilah comprise almost 2/3 of its broadcast day, it seems feasible that a well-organized competitor could knock it off.


> KABG will get ratings by default too.

True. Of course, it knocked off the heritage oldies station about five years ago and probably won't have another competitor due to the oldies format becoming less desirable to advertisers and, by extention, potential competitors.

> KSYU can maintain a 3 share by just holding off KQBT. KQBT
> is trying to be a rhythmic ED-FM. NO jocks. No promotions.
> Too bad. They will lose.

KQBT is a real disappointment. Univision usually has its act together a lot better than this when it comes to programming.

> What a bad Country book.
> KBQI has a better morning show, but weak jocks throughout
> the day. KRST should be able to overcome the defecit with
> strong middays, afternoons, nights and weekends. KKRG will
> just depend on diary placement.

I agree that KRST should be doing a lot better than it is. I think the old adage of "You win mornings, you win the whole day" is pretty well illustrated here. Also, keep in mind that Albuquerque is one of the wobbliest markets in the nation. It's hard to tell if, after a couple of books, you're really downtrending or just a victim of statistics.

> KLVO: Impressive, however they will fluctuate with Spanish
> vs. English speaking diary holders.

Agreed. However, I think they will remain the number one Spanish-language station for a long time to come.
 
> The entire concept of Talk FM only works if
> you follow CBS's FreeFM format playing in Los Angeles,
> Chicago and other big markets.

I agree to a point - and certainly KAGM's present approach
is questionable. But FreeFM is hardly a proven entity only
being a little more than a month old - its going to take a
long time for these properties that relied heavily on Stern.
 
> I agree to a point - and certainly KAGM's present approach
> is questionable. But FreeFM is hardly a proven entity only
> being a little more than a month old - its going to take a
> long time for these properties that relied heavily on Stern.

I don't see Free FM as being long for the world. I also don't think KAGM's problem is that it tried to do a straight-ahead talk format on FM. As a former PD of mine once said, "You don't get to be #1 by going after #5." So, going after KOB makes at least some sense. Not to mention that you're going to have to do talk on FM if you're ever going to compete with KOB because the only signal with even similar coverage is 610, which Citadel will not let go. I actually think KAGM had a good idea. The approach of getting some established names was a good idea, too. The execution, however, was botched from day one. Given who was running the property, it's disappointing but not terribly surprising.
 
Re: Here's why it didn't work

Your friend was wrong. Talk is a form of communication, not
a format. Where KAGM f***** up is they targeted the same
audience that was already served by KOB. There wasn't a
niche avialable there. KOB's core listeners are pretty
satisfied with the product. The mistake Hutton made is
critical, he really believed that Larry Ahrens was the
reason KOB had great morning numbers. When in reality,
the format, station heritage, and overall staff was
the reason for KOB's success.

Instead they should have targeted
talk appealing to a younger-hipper audience segment. Not
the people who are P-1's of KOB. FM Talk has to be tailored
for the available audience and market dynamics, not simply
putting a N/T format on FM. The only way it would have worked
if KOB was some low powered directionial station that didn't
have full market coverage.










> I don't see Free FM as being long for the world. I also
> don't think KAGM's problem is that it tried to do a
> straight-ahead talk format on FM. As a former PD of mine
> once said, "You don't get to be #1 by going after #5." So,
> going after KOB makes at least some sense. Not to mention
> that you're going to have to do talk on FM if you're ever
> going to compete with KOB because the only signal with even
> similar coverage is 610, which Citadel will not let go. I
> actually think KAGM had a good idea. The approach of
> getting some established names was a good idea, too. The
> execution, however, was botched from day one. Given who was
> running the property, it's disappointing but not terribly
> surprising.
>
 
Re: Here's why it didn't work

Right on the money. Anderson and her producer were a great idea as that had the women's niche. They F'ed up by bringing her idiot husband aboard making them a show without any direction.

The red menace show was good because they were younger guys and had a niche audience that was growing.

Plus neither of these two were involved with KOB in any way shape or form. By trying to become little KOB they sounded like a cheap imitation. To compile problems they have rid themselves of their 2 freshest shows and have kept the tired fossil and the Jacksinochi (Both Villanochi and Jackson sound alike. Like they are clones of one another)and Ahrens.
 
Re: Here's why it didn't work

> Where KAGM f***** up is they targeted the same
> audience that was already served by KOB. There wasn't a
> niche avialable there. KOB's core listeners are pretty
> satisfied with the product.

Sorry, but I have to disagree that there was no room for competition with KOB. When you look at the level of audience it has, it's simply illogical that the audience is 100% unified behind the station. Different people have different reasons for listening to the station, and those different reasons for listening are potential cracks in a station's listening foundation. Using your logic, you should never go after a top rated station because there's no niche available for competing against it as everyone who listens is satisfied. That's just not the case anywhere.

> The mistake Hutton made is
> critical, he really believed that Larry Ahrens was the
> reason KOB had great morning numbers. When in reality,
> the format, station heritage, and overall staff was
> the reason for KOB's success.

I don't know what Hutton was thinking. He may or may not have been thinking all he had to do was get Larry to win. If he was thinking that, I would agree he made a big mistake. The only way you're going to knock off a top rated station is to put on a better product. If you can't put on a better product for whatever reason, you don't go in that direction. It's very rare that you ever have a single personality that can make that big of a difference. However, I do think picking up a well-known and talented personality is one step you can make to provide a better product for your listeners. I don't see any area of KOB's lineup that is invincible. It doesn't look, to me, like the absolute best product on the planet in its format. Tough to knock off? You bet. Excellent product? You bet, but it doesn't look invincible. Also, keep in mind that you don't have to knock off KOB to be a winner. Two quality talk stations can co-exist very nicely in one market. Of course, the key word is quality, which is where KAGM is lacking.

> Instead they should have targeted
> talk appealing to a younger-hipper audience segment. Not
> the people who are P-1's of KOB. FM Talk has to be tailored
> for the available audience and market dynamics, not simply
> putting a N/T format on FM. The only way it would have
> worked
> if KOB was some low powered directionial station that didn't
> have full market coverage.

The problem I have with the younger talk idea is that it's only a lukewarm success in most places where it's been tried, and it's been heavily dependent on Howard Stern to get that lukewarm success. Howard Stern is no longer an option. How would you pull it off?
 
Re: Here's why it didn't work

> >>
> Sorry, but I have to disagree that there was no room for
> competition with KOB. When you look at the level of
> audience it has, it's simply illogical that the audience is
> 100% unified behind the station. Different people have
> different reasons for listening to the station, and those
> different reasons for listening are potential cracks in a
> station's listening foundation. Using your logic, you
> should never go after a top rated station because there's no
> niche available for competing against it as everyone who
> listens is satisfied. That's just not the case anywhere.
>

What you have not taken into consideration in KOB's case, is there
depth of image the audience that is available for News-Talk
in Albq. That is built on many attributes including the station's
heritage,favorite talk shows, state wide signal, and consistency.
These are not easy attributes to overcome. I am willing to bet that
no research was done in order to determine if there was a significant
niche for a News-Talk FM station. Where was KOB vulnerable?

There is no way to go after their news image. Too costly in a
market that size. You would go broke trying. Remember it doesn't
matter what KOB does, with their heritage they own the perception.

What is their weakness?. The morning show-its #1 with or without
Ahrens. The morning package is a well oiled machine.

How about national talent: Oh let's see Rush, Paul Harvey, Hannity
& Savage. Basically the 4 horsemen of N/T.

Local Talk: KOB has Jim Villanucci. Even if you had a better host than him,
do you have Rush & Sean as lead ins?. Can that investment in local
talk build ratings and pay off in revenue?

Sports: Lobos & Sports/Talk. Plus Citadel owns the sports talker.

Liberal Talk: KABQ has that sewn up.

All Conservative: KTBL is mostly second-tier conservative
talk. Another alternative to KOB and KAGM.

Remember this is a zero sum game. If you're going after the same
target audience as KOB you better have a well defined position,
that is significantly more compelling in order to build cume
& TSL.


>
> I don't know what Hutton was thinking. He may or may not
> have been thinking all he had to do was get Larry to win.
> If he was thinking that, I would agree he made a big
> mistake. The only way you're going to knock off a top rated
> station is to put on a better product. If you can't put on
> a better product for whatever reason, you don't go in that
> direction. It's very rare that you ever have a single
> personality that can make that big of a difference.
> However, I do think picking up a well-known and talented
> personality is one step you can make to provide a better
> product for your listeners. I don't see any area of KOB's
> lineup that is invincible. It doesn't look, to me, like the
> absolute best product on the planet in its format. Tough to
> knock off? You bet. Excellent product? You bet, but it
> doesn't look invincible. Also, keep in mind that you don't
> have to knock off KOB to be a winner. Two quality talk
> stations can co-exist very nicely in one market. Of course,
> the key word is quality, which is where KAGM is lacking.


Well nothing is totally invincible. But here's the deal: at
what cost? Larry Ahrens is a fine professional, but in order
to reposition KOB in the morning you need to shake it up.
This is FM, not AM radio. Create talk, do something that
is unconventional. Just don't be a "me too" competititor
of a heritage station. You will never win the older demos
away from KOB, better think younger.


>
> The problem I have with the younger talk idea is that it's
> only a lukewarm success in most places where it's been
> tried, and it's been heavily dependent on Howard Stern to
> get that lukewarm success. Howard Stern is no longer an
> option. How would you pull it off?


Forget about Stern and shock. Stern is out of play. I didn't
need him when I built a successful FM Talk station. You
need to be focused on the listener, much like a music station.
The station must have connecting parts, not a series of random
stand alone shows. It's not cheap. But I can sell twice the
inventory of the music stations. Beating KOB, sure in the
right demos.
 
Re: Here's why it didn't work

> What you have not taken into consideration in KOB's case, is
> there
> depth of image the audience that is available for News-Talk
> in Albq. That is built on many attributes including the
> station's
> heritage,favorite talk shows, state wide signal, and
> consistency.
> These are not easy attributes to overcome. I am willing to
> bet that
> no research was done in order to determine if there was a
> significant
> niche for a News-Talk FM station. Where was KOB vulnerable?

Where was KOB vulnerable? I'll be the first to admit I have not done a perceptual on Albuquerque talk listening habits. My dog isn't in that fight. However, it's illogical to say everyone listens to KOB for the exact same reason. You have to find the reasons people listen, and figure out what you can do better. It's all about the product. I doubt even an excellent product, far better than KAGM, would ever run KOB completely out of the market. However, it doesn't have to. I do believe you could have a situation with KOB and another talk station, like KFAQ and KRMG in Tulsa, where both are rather successful. Such a scenario is not out of the question for Albuquerque if it's done well.

> There is no way to go after their news image. Too costly in
> a
> market that size. You would go broke trying. Remember it
> doesn't
> matter what KOB does, with their heritage they own the
> perception.

News, if you're willing to make the investment, can pay for itself rather quickly. However, it can't be a half-hearted effort. It's definitely hard to get companies to pay for a news investment in radio these days, but it can work when news is done well. It's also hard to get people who are really willing to work to make the product successful. Going back to the KFAQ and KRMG comparison, both stations have award winning news teams. Tulsa is a market of similar size, though maybe not demographics, as Albuquerque. Other markets of smaller size than Albuquerque have multiple news competitors.

> What is their weakness?. The morning show-its #1 with or
> without
> Ahrens. The morning package is a well oiled machine.

Quite true.

> How about national talent: Oh let's see Rush, Paul Harvey,
> Hannity
> & Savage. Basically the 4 horsemen of N/T.

Hannity and Savage can be knocked off. That's actually a rather common occurrence. Rush is much more difficult. One that I would have gone after, for example, for KAGM is Phil Hendrie. He's an excellent competitor to Michael Savage, and Jim Bohannon is another good choice for syndicated evening fare. Going up against Rush, you'd be better off running a straight up alternative. That was one of the reasons I said a women's show with Dianne Anderson might not be as dumb of an idea as so many people were saying when KAGM launched. However, AGM, once again, blew chunks with it from day one.

> Local Talk: KOB has Jim Villanucci. Even if you had a better
> host than him,
> do you have Rush & Sean as lead ins?. Can that investment in
> local
> talk build ratings and pay off in revenue?

Like I said, Sean can be beaten. He tends to ride ratings. The fact that he's on for two full hours between Rush and Villanucci, who is definitely a good host, means you can get a good lead-in for your own afternoon show if you're willing to make the investment. I would have tried to find someone, possibly a good smaller market host, to come in and go live against Hannity. Someone with more experience than what KAGM got, just smaller market experience. Would this person come cheap? Probably not, but you should be able to get a quality smaller market host without busting your budget. Paying off in revenue, if you get a strong lineup, shouldn't be a problem. You can sell 30+ avails in an hour in talk radio.

> Liberal Talk: KABQ has that sewn up.

Actually, Hendrie is a good show that I was surprised 1350 never picked up.

> Remember this is a zero sum game. If you're going after the
> same
> target audience as KOB you better have a well defined
> position,
> that is significantly more compelling in order to build cume
> & TSL.

I agree you need to have a well defined position and a well thought out battle plan to go up against KOB. Experience with other markets shows it can be done.

> Well nothing is totally invincible. But here's the deal: at
> what cost? Larry Ahrens is a fine professional, but in order
> to reposition KOB in the morning you need to shake it up.
> This is FM, not AM radio. Create talk, do something that
> is unconventional. Just don't be a "me too" competititor
> of a heritage station. You will never win the older demos
> away from KOB, better think younger.

Actually, I don't think our positions are all that far apart from reading your previous few posts. I like the idea of doing unconventional programming. I also would agree about winning the older demos being next to impossible. However, those in the 55+ age demo, which does constitute a signficant portion of KOB's listening audience, aren't a good sale anyway. KFAQ in Tulsa did a good job of getting the 25-54 audience from KRMG while not getting much of the older demos at all. I would agree with thinking younger, though I wouldn't think young if you know what I mean.

> Forget about Stern and shock. Stern is out of play. I didn't
> need him when I built a successful FM Talk station. You
> need to be focused on the listener, much like a music
> station.
> The station must have connecting parts, not a series of
> random
> stand alone shows. It's not cheap. But I can sell twice the
> inventory of the music stations. Beating KOB, sure in the
> right demos.

Once again, I ask how you would do younger talk. Also, which FM talk station did you build? I also would agree with you that talk should be focused on the listener, just like music.
 
Re: Here's why it didn't work

The costs for a full news department, since you want to go
all out, would be extremely prohibitive. It's not a risk
most stations would take. Too many people under estimate
their competition. "Oh we could do it better". But its
not that easy. Perceptions are extremely hard to change.
It was easier in the old days, you didn't have Drudge
Report, CNN, Fox News, XM, Sirius, multiple TV news
packages.

As far as your assertion that Hannity and Savage can
be beat. I had a local host who happened to be a legacy
in the market go up against Hannity on my News Talk
AM and he did very well against Sean. However you have
to factor in the costs of a six figure talent, a producer
and screener. The point is there aren't that many people
around he beat Sean consistently. A new talk show takes
at least 2 years to develop. In today's bottom line, its
easier said than done, to convince corporate to invest
that kind of money into anything that isn't a sure shot,
you'd better have your ducks in a row.

Phil Hendrie is one of the most talented people I know.
But he is not a major ratings factor at most of his affiliates.
Now that some FM's have picked him up on the Free FM format
he may have better success.

I've programmed or consulted Talk, News-Talk, Sports, and FM
Talk stations. I see no reason to recite my resume here. I
appreciate your interest, but I learned long ago after giving
away ideas, not to share too much. I enjoy talking about
the business, but I keep my clients confidential and don't
dispense free advice.
 
I used to listen to KISS a lot in the late 90's...then switched to the now non-existing Channel 105.1 KOB-FM is a way better CHR that that crappy station was. They seem to sound pretty good..They focus on hip hop as well as pop and rock. But the title and artist info at the end of each song can get kinda annoying...
>
 
Re: Here's why it didn't work

> The costs for a full news department, since you want to go
> all out, would be extremely prohibitive.

You can run a very effective news department with around four or five staff members. From the figures given on Larry's salary, you could probably hire that many people for the same amount of money, if not slightly less. Also, if you can spread the staff, and the cost, around your other stations, it can be done at a reasonable price. A news staff of 20 is not necessary to have a good newsroom.

> It's not a risk
> most stations would take.

I would agree with you here. News is not something most groups invest in. I think it's unfortunate, but it's certainly a reality.

> Too many people under estimate
> their competition. "Oh we could do it better". But its
> not that easy. Perceptions are extremely hard to change.

No one said it was easy. No one said KOB was being underestimated either, or at least I never said that.

> As far as your assertion that Hannity and Savage can
> be beat. I had a local host who happened to be a legacy
> in the market go up against Hannity on my News Talk
> AM and he did very well against Sean. However you have
> to factor in the costs of a six figure talent, a producer
> and screener. The point is there aren't that many people
> around he beat Sean consistently. A new talk show takes
> at least 2 years to develop. In today's bottom line, its
> easier said than done, to convince corporate to invest
> that kind of money into anything that isn't a sure shot,
> you'd better have your ducks in a row.

I know Dillon Dodge on KFAQ in Tulsa mops the floor with Hannity on KRMG in the 25-54 demo. This despite having Laura Ingraham as his lead-in and Ingraham being opposite Hannity for one hour. He also arrived in the market after Hannity. I don't know what Dodge is making, but I doubt he's making six figures given the size of the market. The main reason there aren't many people who beat Sean consistently is his competition. More often than not, he's competing against other satellite hosts, most of whom are also-rans. You have to give someone reason to change the station from Hannity. Remember, he usually rides ratings rather than makes his own.

> Phil Hendrie is one of the most talented people I know.
> But he is not a major ratings factor at most of his
> affiliates.
> Now that some FM's have picked him up on the Free FM format
> he may have better success.

Talk radio, in general, has trouble after dark. There aren't many talk stations left that are live after 7 PM, and many of them, especially in small/medium markets, have been satellite for fifteen years or more. There's a reason for that. The audience generally isn't there to support a live and local show.

> I've programmed or consulted Talk, News-Talk, Sports, and FM
> Talk stations. I see no reason to recite my resume here. I
> appreciate your interest, but I learned long ago after
> giving
> away ideas, not to share too much. I enjoy talking about
> the business, but I keep my clients confidential and don't
> dispense free advice.

Why, then, did you bring up what a successful FM talk programmer you are in the first place? I don't ask people about their resumes unless they bring it up first. It's easy to say you're a success, but no one really knows when you post under an alias and don't give specific examples. I could probably knock you over with a feather when I say this, but some people lie on these boards. When you use your own success as an example, you really should put your money where your mouth is.
 
Re: Here's why it didn't work

>
> Why, then, did you bring up what a successful FM talk
> programmer you are in the first place?

...I wasn't trying to impress anyone just being truthful. You
sound like some out-of-work jock, who probably could use
some tips. Go back and read what I told you. I doubt
you've ever done a line item budget in your life. You
propose a 5 person news team in market # 70. Either
you are extremely naive or you just want to argue.
Albq simply doesn't have the size or revenue for
such an expenditure.


don't ask people about their resumes unless they bring it up first.

...Never mentioned my resume. Told you of my general background.
it is germaine to the discussion. Been there..done it. Have you?


It's easy to say you're a success, but no one really knows when
you post under an alias and don't give specific examples. I
could probably knock you over with a feather when I say
this, but some people lie on these boards.

...I don't really care what you think. Believe what you want.
Suggestion: Go take a business management class at a JC.
Learn something about ROI,look at a Miller-Kaplan report.
If you're interested in programming, your outlook won't
cut it. If you just like to debate radio, have at it.
 
Re: Here's why it didn't work

> ...I wasn't trying to impress anyone just being truthful.
> You
> sound like some out-of-work jock, who probably could use
> some tips. Go back and read what I told you.

I wasn't trying to make this personal. I was simply offering you a friendly suggestion, which is to state where you were so successful because you could be anyone on a messageboard. As for being an out of work jock, I presently work in radio on the weekends. Granted, it's in an unrated market, but I enjoy it and am proud of it. Not only is it a chance for me to do a radio show, which I love, but also a chance to serve a small market with live radio, including, possibly, the chance to save someone's life if bad weather comes through. I have been an out of work jock before, and it wasn't fun. I don't wish it on anyone. I have a government job during the week that pays the bills nicely and gives me job security with great benefits. It was worth leaving radio full-time. By the way, if you've heard my show, either as a jock or talk host, and have some constructive tips, I would welcome them.

> I doubt
> you've ever done a line item budget in your life. You
> propose a 5 person news team in market # 70. Either
> you are extremely naive or you just want to argue.
> Albq simply doesn't have the size or revenue for
> such an expenditure.

I worked at a small market station, much smaller than Albuquerque, with a news staff of 5 for three years. No one got rich, but no one's budget got busted either. If that staff had been transplanted to Albuquerque (or anywhere else), it would have made an excellent effort. Of course, it was never tried in Albuquerque. I don't know if it would have worked against KOB, but we would have been as frustrating to them as we possibly could have been. They would have seen us at their side, ahead of them, or right behind them getting every major story. As for budgeting, the amateurish cheap shot is noted. I live on a budget. I work on a budget. I can deal with corporate politics on budgeting. I wasn't trying to argue with you, and, until you brought it up, I didn't see us as arguing. I saw it as a friendly discussion of two people with slightly different ideas that probably weren't too far apart. If something touched a nerve with you, I apologize.

> ...Never mentioned my resume. Told you of my general
> background.

You said you wouldn't discuss your resume after saying you built a successful FM talker. I simply asked which FM talker. The only reason I even brought it up was because you made it a point. And, yes, I had a genuine interest in you and your background.

> it is germaine to the discussion. Been there..done it.
> Have you?

Yes. I've done talk radio as a talk host, news staff, and producer/board-op. Even done all at the same time! Done music radio, too. Currently doing music radio on the weekends. Love it! Experienced the thrill of victory with an upstart knocking off the heritage station and the agony of defeat with the heritage station that lost 70% of its audience in a year. Both were great experiences, and I learned a lot! I can honestly say I wouldn't have traded them for anything!

> If you're interested in programming, your outlook won't
> cut it. If you just like to debate radio, have at it.

Thank you for the good words. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. Like I said before, I was never trying to make this anything personal. I was genuinely interested in you and your opinion and how you would program KAGM. After all, you suggested young talk a la Free FM, and I would like to know how you would make it work as Free FM is an unproven commodity, and I have seen little success on young talk that wasn't based on Stern. However, there was never any notion on my part that you couldn't do it.
 
Re: Here's why it didn't work

> > ...I wasn't trying to impress anyone just being truthful.
> > You
> > sound like some out-of-work jock, who probably could
> use
> > some tips. Go back and read what I told you.
>
> I wasn't trying to make this personal. I was simply
> offering you a friendly suggestion, which is to state where
> you were so successful because you could be anyone on a
> messageboard. As for being an out of work jock, I presently
> work in radio on the weekends. Granted, it's in an unrated
> market, but I enjoy it and am proud of it. Not only is it a
> chance for me to do a radio show, which I love, but also a
> chance to serve a small market with live radio, including,
> possibly, the chance to save someone's life if bad weather
> comes through. I have been an out of work jock before, and
> it wasn't fun. I don't wish it on anyone. I have a
> government job during the week that pays the bills nicely
> and gives me job security with great benefits. It was worth
> leaving radio full-time. By the way, if you've heard my
> show, either as a jock or talk host, and have some
> constructive tips, I would welcome them.
>

Hi, sir. Just curious, which station do you work at now? How did you happen to come by that job? It's never too early for me to begin thinking about career opportunities and how to snatch them...especially when I can have the advice of somebody who has already done the things that I am interested in doing. I am also in an unrated market (although it does seem to be growing; two stations recently launched in Taos this past October, with another AM station coming this summer, from what I hear), but I am interested in getting a job in radio, even if only as a part-time job.

Sorry to hi-jack this thread, but I saw this as a perfect opportunity to seek advice from somebody who seems to be experienced in the radio field. If anybody else wants to chime in, please feel free to do so.
 
Re: Here's why it didn't work

> Hi, sir.

Hi! By the way, my friend, no need to call me sir. You're welcome to just call me Kent (yes, it's my real name)!

> Just curious, which station do you work at now?

I presently work at KLOZ 92.7 in Eldon, MO. Like I said, it's an unrated market, but I'm very much proud of it. I work with a great staff, and I always have a great time.

> How
> did you happen to come by that job?

I landed the job by who I was and who I knew. Yes, it took both. I was a jock and talk host in Columbia and Jefferson City, MO only to be pushed out in budget cuts after my company sold. I got the government job right about the same time and started doing radio part-time. I was fired from that part-time job in another round of budget cuts. All weekenders got the axe there. So, I called a friend of mine at KLOZ, and we started talking. All of the fired weekenders were called back, but I was already working at KLOZ and actually making more money with a more flexible schedule. So, I stayed. KLOZ called me back because I was a highly rated jock, and I was good friends with another weekender at the station. I got started in radio almost 15 years ago by getting an internship, which I actually got because I knew someone inside the station. I constantly bothered Bob Cooper when he was mornings at KWEN in Tulsa, and the fact that I lived in his neighborhood and went to high school with his daughters really helped. A lot of the time, it's who you know as much as what you know.

> It's never too early for
> me to begin thinking about career opportunities and how to
> snatch them...especially when I can have the advice of
> somebody who has already done the things that I am
> interested in doing.

I agree that it's never too early to begin thinking about careers. Radio is a lot of fun, and it can be very rewarding. There's nothing like covering severe weather and realizing you're really making a difference as you are your listeners' eyes and ears. If you want to get into radio, let me give you this advice: take courses in college, if you can go to college, that teach you how to think and get that job in commercial radio while in college, or even high school, as quickly as possible, even if you're just an intern or a board-op. My degrees are in communication science and computer science. The reason I say you need to learn to think if you're in radio is that you have to have so many abilities to do the job well. I've also had several corporate jobs between radio jobs, and you'll likely be between radio jobs several times in your career. The money at those corporate jobs was great, but I missed radio too much and got tired of all the overtime I was working. So, maybe I'm not as smart as my double major! Here are just some of the skills you need in radio:

(1) Customer service - How many times do radio people have to defuse angry callers? You haven't played my song! Why do you keep playing Eminem? Don't you know my kids are listening?!?!

(2) Communication skills - This one is a given. You have to communicate with your audience, which consists of many different people, all of whom listen to you for a different reason.

(3) Adaptability - How many different formats do you have to do? How many in a single day? Also, how many times have you had to scramble at the last minute to make things happen, like a last minute remote?

(4) Quick thinking - Along the lines of adaptability, how many times has news or weather broken out that you've had to cover? Also, how many times have you been told by your PD to talk about something at the last minute and make it interesting?

(5) People skills - How many different people have you had to work with, all with big egos, while balancing your own interests?

(6) Computer skills - Who taught you AudioVault, Scott Studios, Maestro, Prophet, News Boss, Cartready, DCS, Pro Tools, Adobe Audition, SAW and Cool Edit? If you're like most people in radio, you probably taught yourself!

> I am also in an unrated market
> (although it does seem to be growing; two stations recently
> launched in Taos this past October, with another AM station
> coming this summer, from what I hear),

Remember, working in an unrated market is nothing to be ashamed of. There are so many people who unconstructively criticize people left and right but couldn't get a job anywhere in radio, including in unrated markets, or refuse to do what's necessary to get a job in radio.

> but I am interested
> in getting a job in radio, even if only as a part-time job.

Check into it. Get to know the local personalities and make sure they know you're interested. If they're doing remotes, stop by and visit. Of course, buy some items where they are, but talk to them a bit. Bug them about it but don't go crazy with it. Also, remember, that you're going to have to go to them most of the time. They're not going to come to you with a job offer. I know KTAO has, or had, a local staff. That might be somewhere to check out. A small market is a great place to start, especially if you're not heavily dependent on your own money! Part-time radio is good! It's how almost all of us got started.

> Sorry to hi-jack this thread, but I saw this as a perfect
> opportunity to seek advice from somebody who seems to be
> experienced in the radio field.

You're not hijacking the thread at all. This is a board for people who want to learn about radio and discuss it, and it's a public forum. Anyone who can add something is free and welcome to do so.
 
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