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Lib Station Discovers It's Better To Go Black

Actually, DLR proposed deleting the 1160 in Thunder Bay. However, there is now a vacant 1170 allotment there, and I can't find whether this was proposed by DLR or if it was substituted by Canada. There are so many vacant AM allotments in Canada, and sometimes stations protect the phantom facility at the expense of ridiculous DA patterns or lower power as a result.
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
Actually, DLR proposed deleting the 1160 in Thunder Bay. However, there is now a vacant 1170 allotment there, and I can't find whether this was proposed by DLR or if it was substituted by Canada. There are so many vacant AM allotments in Canada, and sometimes stations protect the phantom facility at the expense of ridiculous DA patterns or lower power as a result.
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Which station at 1160 did Salem do the frequency swap with, in order to get their power increase for WYLL? Too bad the treaty doesn't allow for the US stations to expand on their vacant allotments. Since we are so attached to AM, the Canadian government should just sign those frequencies away.
 
jry said:
Since we are so attached to AM, the Canadian government should just sign those frequencies away.
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Here's a stupid question. Has anyone bothered to ask?
 
They would want something in return. They are bargaining chips. What they would probably
want would involve something that didn't conform to the treaty on FM. It would probably be way out of proportion to relinquishing the AM frequency. It would probably involve interference to a US station, or relinquishing an FM frequency of a US station to Canada. It's like some human relationships, and international relations at some much higher level than an AM or FM frequency. That said, there are usually ways around it. And to be fair, there are US stations who want large concessions, out of proportion to the value of the station, to accommodate an upgrade.

DLR initially proposed deletion of 1160. IT WAS A VACANT ALLOTMENT, NOT A STATION. There is now an 1170 allotted to Thunder Bay. What happened in between isn't clear. Maybe it's in a later application. It was alluded to as "in another part of the application" in the original application.

On the US side, they upgraded WHBY 1150 Kimberly, WI.
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
They would want something in return. They are bargaining chips. What they would probably want would involve something that didn't conform to the treaty on FM.
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Of course they'd want something. That's not unordinary. I have found Canadian regulators involved in broadcasting to usually decide hard in one direction or the other, never in the middle. They are either reasonable, while protecting Canadian interests, or they are bug-screwed crazy. (I guess the later can be said lately of the FCC.) It never hurts to ask. The odds of being able to deal with a reasonable human being are far greater. Or at least that used to be the case. Altering a treaty, while possible, would be a difficult and time-consuming task. As you noted, there's probably another way to reach the desired conclusion.
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
They would want something in return. They are bargaining chips. What they would probably
want would involve something that didn't conform to the treaty on FM. It would probably be way out of proportion to relinquishing the AM frequency. It would probably involve interference to a US station, or relinquishing an FM frequency of a US station to Canada. It's like some human relationships, and international relations at some much higher level than an AM or FM frequency. That said, there are usually ways around it. And to be fair, there are US stations who want large concessions, out of proportion to the value of the station, to accommodate an upgrade.

DLR initially proposed deletion of 1160. IT WAS A VACANT ALLOTMENT, NOT A STATION. There is now an 1170 allotted to Thunder Bay. What happened in between isn't clear. Maybe it's in a later application. It was alluded to as "in another part of the application" in the original application.

On the US side, they upgraded WHBY 1150 Kimberly, WI.
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I know that Salem had to offer up something to replace the allotment.
 
Someone asked what DLR was. I used it because it is a lot easier than typing the firm's full name.

They are one of the leading Consulting Engineering firms that file FCC applications, and other related studies. It stands for duTreil, Lundin, and Rackley. They are Munn-Reese's competition. Munn-Reese was originally Harold Munn and Associates, and is based in Coldwater, MI, so they do a large percentage of regional applications. An older firm was Kear and Kennedy, and you still see their names on old applications, coverage maps, and such. D.L. Markley is such a firm based near Chicago.
 
D.L. Markley is actually based in Peoria. Mueller Broadcast Design (formerly Bob Jones) is based in LaGrange, near Chicago. Carl Smith (or its successor) is based in the Cleveland-Akron area. Hatfield and Dawson are based in the Pacific Northwest.

DLR is based in Sarasota, like Sarasota Jim.
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
It stands for duTreil, Lundin, and Rackley. They are Munn-Reese's competition. Munn-Reese was originally Harold Munn and Associates, and is based in Coldwater, MI, so they do a large percentage of regional applications.
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Wow! The memories you just brought back! Hal Munn personally did all of the engineering (I think his firm was a one-man affair at the time) for my Dad's first two startups in Chambersburg, PA. The first was an FM in 1953 or 1954. When the CP was granted, Hal hopped into his little Cessna or Piper, whichever it was, and flew to Chambersburg with a bunch of equipment and built the station from the ground up himself. I particular remember a (what I believe was a 1-off) mixer built by Crown into one of their tape recorder cabinets. It was used as the console.

And, as it happens, DLR did some work for me, too, but that was before they moved to Sarasota.

It's a small world.
 
If you wanted to eliminate an occupied Canadian AM frequency, I would think that proposing an FM channel with superior coverage would suffice, unless the company already has two FMs in the market. Canada and other nations are abandoning AM anyway.
 
I just read DLR's website history. It turns out that DLR is a roundabout successor of Kear and Kennedy. As the saying goes, it's complicated.

Kear and Kennedy would make station sales department usable coverage maps when they did an upgrade or a new station. It was so much better than any coverage map is today. It actually meant something. The newer stylized artsy ones are usually just about useless. Of course, R-L does give you a place to start if you read their documentation and don't assume that the inner contour is City Grade. But a coverage map with "Kear and Kennedy" at the bottom was the gold standard.
 
Schroedingers Cat said:
It would be an even smaller world if you were related to Harold Munn's successor, Sarasota Jim. Just noticed the common surname!
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The moderator is going to hate this but I just have this giant need to reply and this is the only way I have.

If you go back far enough, there has to be some common blood in our veins. Reese derived from Rees and Rees was the Anglicized spelling of the Welsh name Rhys. It was fairly common a few hundred years ago for a Welchman moving to London to change the spelling in order to maintain the same pronunciation. If he ever moved back to Wales, he'd become Rhys again.

Also, Ap in Wales was the same as the Mc and Mac in Ireland and Scotland so there were numerous people runing around Wales who were named Ap Rhys. With human migration came changes in names. Ap Rhys has morphed not only into Rees and Reese, but also into at least a dozen other family names including Aprice, Price, Rice, etc.

"The family" is absolutely huge.

And now, for the sake of the moderator, back to radio! :)
 
Well, forgive this little aside also. My wife and I discovered while looking something up that one of our friends is descended from the Royal Family. They can trace their ancestry back to 945 AD in Scotland, to a common ancestor named Crinan de Mormaer. That apparently is a common thread, one of the ones where the US Presidents always turn out to be distant cousins. Does that name ring a bell?
 
Cool!!

And I am a direct descendant of two people whom I truly believe would be known to every first-language english-speaking person on the planet. The first is Godgyfu, a common old-English name. The one who is my ancestor was married to Leofric, the Earl of Mercia about a thousand years ago.

Seven hundred years earlier, a direct ancestor is a northern British king named Coel Hen. He spoke both latin, having ruled just after the Roman occupation, and a pre-english brithonic that can best be called early Welsh. In his native language of the time, he was called Coel, the old.

Trust me. You know them both.

I also have some more distant connections to the Tewdwrs (Tudors).
 
In my mind, I hear a Peter and Gordon song playing on The Big 8! OK, we're back on the radio track. Where does the next generation ancestor fit into the famous equestrian ride timeline?
 
Oh, my liege, you hear most correctly! :)

Question: Any idea how much room there might be to move 1310 to the north or west?
 
Ron Rackley is a great person. Good taste in cigars as well.

If i were in the consultant game, i'd be looking at some of these AMs that have been turned in and then i would see which AM stations could upgrade or benefit from the silencing of those aforementioned AM stations.

I've said it before but, some of the guys that can hang on will benefit from better facilities and less interference.
 
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