Liberal Talk Underperforming in Liberal Seattle: 12+/KIRO and 12+/KPTK

[Tom_]

"Seattle's Progressive Talk AM 1090" is flat in the ratings 12+ for the two books the station has been an affiliate of AAR and Schultz.

Anyone have some 25-54 data for 1090 for Ed Schultz?

"Newsradio 710 KIRO" - reprogramming at the beginning included:

1-addition of new local liberal hosts (*Allan Prell,* *Tony Ventrella*)
2-expanded hours of local liberal *Mike Webb*
3-addition of pro-alternative-energy/pro-conservation financial host *Bob Brinker*
4-moving left leaning *Dave Ross* to drive time

KIRO 12+ has declined rapidly since Fall 2004. I have no 25-54 numbers yet.

It's very surprising. Why is it happening? Is it the two strong NPR stations? Is it the strong Pacifica outlet? Is it AM 1090's nightime pattern change? Is it the lack of a local host on KPTK? Is it the lack of traffic reports on KIRO with Dave Ross drive time? Is it a problem with promoting the stations? Is it the dial position theory...1090 is above all the other talk stations? Would listeners prefer Dave Ross to return to 9-NOON?

Or do listeners not like some of the syndicated and local personalities on these stations? Would people prefer someone like Jay Diamond, Bill Press, Charles Jaco, Doug Basham, Lionel, Stephanie Miller, Thom Hartmann, or others?

AM 1090's unique *new* weekend lineup features re-runs not heard M-F such as Stephanie Miller, Lionel, Amy Goodman, Clark Howard, and Thom Hartmann. AM 1090 provides the opportunity to comment on their web site. Hartmann was in second place behind Amy Goodman last time I checked on their on-line poll.

 

[Tom_]

Radio Equalizer on KIRO Ratings...Listeners Reject New far-left programming 40:83

the Radio Equalizer has this to say, and more:

"Before KIRO lost Seattle Mariners rights to KOMO-AM, it sometimes posted ratings above a ten share. It was always in first place, now it's tied for seventh. And that's not counting 25-54 ratings, crucial for advertising, which are likely far lower. The big drop also coincides with an aggressive push toward hard-left programming............." (link below)

That's true, but not all KIRO-AM hosts are "hard left." Some are more liberal than others.

Under prior mgmt: fall 2004, KIRO liberal hours per week (some are more liberal than others):

Dave Ross (15)
Mike Webb (15)
Carl Jeffers (2)
Erin Hart (8)

Total Liberal hours fall 2004 = (40)

under new management 2005 (some are more liberal than others):

Allan Prell (15)
Dave Ross (15)
Tony Ventrella (15)
Mike Webb (20)
Carl Jeffers (2)
Turi Ryder (2)
Erin Hart (8)
Bob Brinker (6)...Bob is politically unpredictable. For right now at least, his positions on many issues are consistent with the Democrats, especially energy and fiscal policy.

Total Liberal Hours 2005 = (83) (!)

So...40hrs under the old mgmt, to 83hrs under the new mgmt.

40:83

http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/ SEARCH BOX for "KIRO" to find it...<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by this Tom: on 07/29/05 07:06 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[FilmCritic3000]

Re: Radio Equalizer on KIRO Ratings...Listeners Reject New far-left programming 40:83

Then again, we all know what side of the fence Radio Equalizer falls on. If they issued a weather report, I'd look out the window to check for myself.


> the Radio Equalizer has this to say, and more:
>
> "Before KIRO lost Seattle Mariners rights to KOMO-AM, it
> sometimes posted ratings above a ten share. It was always in
> first place, now it's tied for seventh. And that's not
> counting 25-54 ratings, crucial for advertising, which are
> likely far lower. The big drop also coincides with an
> aggressive push toward hard-left programming............."
> (link below)
>
> That's true, but not all KIRO-AM hosts are "hard left." Some
> are more liberal than others.
>
> Under prior mgmt: fall 2004, KIRO liberal hours per week
> (some are more liberal than others):
>
> Dave Ross (15)
> Mike Webb (15)
> Carl Jeffers (2)
> Erin Hart (8)
>
> Total Liberal hours fall 2004 = (40)
>
> under new management 2005 (some are more liberal than
> others):
>
> Allan Prell (15)
> Dave Ross (15)
> Tony Ventrella (15)
> Mike Webb (20)
> Carl Jeffers (2)
> Turi Ryder (2)
> Erin Hart (8)
> Bob Brinker (6)...Bob is politically unpredictable. For
> right now at least, his positions on many issues are
> consistent with the Democrats, especially energy and fiscal
> policy.
>
> Total Liberal Hours 2005 = (83) (!)
>
> So...40hrs under the old mgmt, to 83hrs under the new mgmt.
>
>
> 40:83
>
> http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/ SEARCH BOX for "KIRO" to
> find it...
>

 

[doc9464]

Re: Radio Equalizer on KIRO Ratings...Listeners Reject New far-left programming 40:83

> Then again, we all know what side of the fence Radio
> Equalizer falls on. If they issued a weather report, I'd
> look out the window to check for myself.
>

Id agree.... the EQualizer has got a huge ax to grind against Air America. Unfortunately, those on the right who continue to spread his disinformation now try to hammer those on the left with this time and time again. The providence room is the most notorious when it comes to repeating this stuff over and over again.
I still find it amazing how the people who are in radio....keep posting this guys stuff over and over again...

Back to the KIRO issue and thisTom's comments. Tom feels that being Centrist is the best way to sell "liberal radio" and he has mentioned some great hosts..but it just points out how open the left is...there are moderates, centrists, and liberals....I do like a lot of the hosts Tom mentioned ...but I think most of know exactly what the problem is....

1) Most AAR affiliates are on craptastic signals and just aren't being heard by people...either AAR is going to have to help improve what they have or dive in and pick up a few stations. The big media companies like CC, Entercom, etc...are still looking at this effort as an experiment (in my opinion) that is showing some fruit..but the $$$ to promote and improve facilites aren't there..yet. I personally don't understand why AAR or other liberals aren't bidding on some of the stations that recently came up for sale. I don't know about the ABC stations..but some of them would help this issue....as the format continues to grow...Boston, Atlanta, Philly, Dallas, and Chicago are probably the biggest victims of this signalp problem.


1a) There are some exceptions where the equalizer and those of his distorting ilk try to attack...Ill select the more popular one to attack...

WHJJ - WHJJ (Providence) has been the poster child for the right as the "problem" with liberal radio. WHJJ has a pretty decent signal. Formally a second tier +conservative station, WHJJ has lost approximately 1.3 points in 12+ books since the switch. The signal is not the issue. Tom Betz and I have posted several points on this station. This station has a very awkward lineup which tries to bridge hosts like Imus to a local host then to AAR programming...its a bad lineup that need adjustment help fast. Ive written letters to the PD/ND/staff about changes that need to be made. The funny part is that the conservative station has terrible local hosts and Rush and Savage...oh, and the Red Sox. This station WPRO has lost points (Tom Betz noted this) at the same level as WHJJ so they are not really picking up any listeners from WHJJ...yet the equalizers and those who post regularly in the Providence claim the station has been "destroyed". CC will not pull the plug on WHJJ's flip....it hasn't been a year yet....I don't think there will be gains here until schedule changes are made...

KTLK (Los Angeles) is another station with ok signal...but I don't know the issues there...maybe OA or someone with knowledge about that station can help on that one...

2) Jerry Springer....Jerry Springer is not a good lead in in blue states and Randi Rhodes does better in Drive Time....(just my opinion) but there are issues across the board there.....with the Fargo Tool taking up 3pm to 7pm on the east coast, AAR's best weapon isn't getting enough clearance...in her element. Ed Schultz is having success but based on the feedback in Boston (for example), he is not the preferred choice...and I am a strong believer on that issue. So this Tom I think has a point where there needs to be some modulation on host quality but an all centrist approach is NOT the answer...Dems in red states are starving (again my opinion) for some good old hard hitting liberal fight-back..when we act like Republican lite...we don't have appeal....there just needs to be a way to cover the appeal for all libs/progressives/democrats...not try to hit some narrow band of moderate centris listeners who probably are conservatives/right-leaning anyway...in mind but not vocally...

3)Stephanie Miller - underestimated and strongly defended by many on this board (and i really enjoy her too) seems to be a boost (again my opinion) to stations...she has a funny, appealing show that is a better lead in than Springer. I wish there was some way to verify if Miller is a boost to stations..Id bet stations that have Miller, Franken, and Rhodes in that order do better...(my opinion)

4) Local hosts (especially in the morning) - Denver and Portland I believe support this point that local morning hosts help....of course this tells me that there are issues with Morning Sedition....or not.....again comments from those who are up on the local host issue please comment...

 

[coolidge]

Re: Radio Equalizer on KIRO Ratings...Listeners Reject New far-left programming 40:83

> providence room

Providence room?



> station, WHJJ has lost approximately 1.3 points in 12+ books

1.7, actually.



> Ive written letters
> to the PD/ND/staff about changes that need to be made.

I'm sure they'll be enactiing your brilliant plan of dropping the few shows that actually still have listeners any time now.




> station WPRO has lost points (Tom Betz noted this) at the
> same level as WHJJ

False. Since the last ratings period before WHJJ's switch to AAR, WPRO has lost 1/3 of a point - or 1/6 what WHJJ has lost. Furthermore, WPRO's ratings have fluctuated over the year whereas WHJJ's have gone steadily and rapidly downward. If this is a "success" I would hate to see what you'd consider a failure.

 

[MattNC]

Miller/DC

> 3)Stephanie Miller - underestimated and strongly defended by
> many on this board (and i really enjoy her too) seems to be
> a boost (again my opinion) to stations...she has a funny,
> appealing show that is a better lead in than Springer. I
> wish there was some way to verify if Miller is a boost to
> stations..Id bet stations that have Miller, Franken, and
> Rhodes in that order do better...(my opinion)
>

I posted this over on the DC board...

http://www.prnewswire.com/news/inde...STORY=/www/story/07-28-2005/0004077707&EDATE=

 

[Tom_]

Re: Political Ideology and Programming...

> Then again, we all know what side of the fence Radio
> Equalizer falls on. If they issued a weather report, I'd
> look out the window to check for myself.

Yes, he is conservative, and yes, he has negative comments for Air America. There are liberal programmers of conservative stations, and conservative programmers of liberal stations. What counts is whether or not the observations of the Radio Equalizer (or anyone else) are corrrect. For the last several months, KIRO,KTTH have gradually declined 12+ 6a-MID, while Air America/KPTK has failed to increase, paralleling negative reviews of programming of these stations from the Radio Equalizer.

Here are two articles from earlier this year where Radio Equalizer points out weaknesses with *both* the *conservative* stations and *Air America 1090,* and the observations were insightful when reading the spring report card yesterday:

http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2005/06/talk-radio-down-in-seattle.html

http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2005/06/seattle-radio-ratings-released.html<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by this Tom: on 07/29/05 11:38 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[Tom_]

Re: Progressive Talk for Blue Collar Democrats...

> Id agree.... the EQualizer has got a huge ax to grind
> against Air America. Unfortunately, those on the right who
> continue to spread his disinformation now try to hammer
> those on the left with this time and time again.

Who else is posting links to his articles...I assume Providence room means Rhode Island? Remember when I'm posting them, wthey are coming from someone familiar with the Seattle/Tacoma market who is *NOT* on the right, and has seen KIRO fall in the ratings since fall 2002, and who agrees with the comments in the articles that I post...

> Back to the KIRO issue and thisTom's comments. Tom feels
> that being Centrist is the best way to sell "liberal radio"
> and he has mentioned some great hosts..but it just points
> out how open the left is...there are moderates, centrists,
> and liberals....I do like a lot of the hosts Tom mentioned
> ...but I think most of know exactly what the problem is....

Not entirely centerists...For the conservatives and moderate Democrats in the audience (and the South), you need some centerists like Schultz. For the progressive Democrats, you need Malloy, Rhodes, Hartmann, etc. etc.

On the other hand, some of the issues on Air America that really turn the moderates off are long discussions w/ professors on creation/evolution, religious issues, and personal lifestyle issues.

Ideally, to get more listeners, the programs should stick with mainstream Democratic issues such as civil rights, workers rights, affirmative action, health care for the poor, and education... These issues are more important to the economically depressed and blue collar workers. In Seattle/Tacoma, the local Air America station programming and also the adverstisements are in many regards for white upper middle class individuals who live in the upscale areas... The station needs a local host to discuss local economic issues...and issues important to economically depressed communities of people, who live outside the Seattle city limits... I think Frank Blair and Audrey Chase would be a good candidates for local hosts... I recall their interview on KLAY 1180 with a candidate for the Superintendent for Public Instruction who was strongly against the WASL (standardized test that is very controversial and that some think is discriminatory and racist...).


<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by this Tom: on 07/29/05 11:45 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[doc9464]

Re: Progressive Talk for Blue Collar Democrats...

> Who else is posting links to his articles...I assume
> Providence room means Rhode Island? Remember when I'm
> posting them, wthey are coming from someone familiar with
> the Seattle/Tacoma market who is *NOT* on the right, and has
> seen KIRO fall in the ratings since fall 2002, and who
> agrees with the comments in the articles that I post...

Hey thisTom...i didnt mean you on the equalizer......but if you go out on the net and news sites and blogs...that equalizer guys stuff is all over the net.....and its a shame...i know you stand behind your posts...i just don't know why those radio people continue to distort..that was the main focus of that comment...none directed toward you...


> Not entirely centerists...For the conservatives and moderate
> Democrats in the audience (and the South), you need some
> centerists like Schultz. For the progressive Democrats, you
> need Malloy, Rhodes, Hartmann, etc. etc.
>
> On the other hand, some of the issues on Air America that
> really turn the moderates off are long discussions w/
> professors on creation/evolution, religious issues, and
> personal lifestyle issues.

Im sure it might turn off some..all im saying is it might not either....the left normally has an open mind....i dont object to a mix.. Schultz and Springer should /maybe used in prime time in places where they can seem to be the best option..but my belief is that the Democratic/liberal ear...if true to the principles..has an ear for all views...not a narrow view....but Shultz is not good in Drivetime in Boston nor is Springer at 9am in Providence....and maybe its true that Rhodes isnt good for drive time 3-7pm in Baton Rouge...but now that we have some choices in liberal broadcasters...its time to think strategically....and really focus on building on what has already been proven, that the format does have legs...and getting me some SIGNAL>>>>>>> god let us get some SIGNAL>>>>>>>> lol
>
> Ideally, to get more listeners, the programs should stick
> with mainstream Democratic issues such as civil rights,
> workers rights, affirmative action, health care for the
> poor, and education... These issues are more important to
> the economically depressed and blue collar workers.

I think this is true of more than just liberals....there are a lot of disenfranchised people who support no party or just don't care...this should be repeated over and over that the left is the defender of the working class...AAR would wise to continue this and I think many of the hosts do this already...except for Janeane...



In
> Seattle/Tacoma, the local Air America station programming
> and also the adverstisements are in many regards for white
> upper middle class individuals who live in the upscale
> areas...

UHHH im going to pass on this one oK....no comment...i think advertising in the view of all stations is to get all the customer wants to spend....all stations try to get as much advertising as they can...... period...




The station needs a local host to discuss local
> economic issues...and issues important to economically
> depressed communities of people, who live outside the
> Seattle city limits... I think Frank Blair and Audrey Chase
> would be a good candidates for local hosts... I recall their
> interview on KLAY 1180 with a candidate for the
> Superintendent for Public Instruction who was strongly
> against the WASL (standardized test that is very
> controversial and that some think is discriminatory and
> racist...).

as i said, you and tom betz I believe are right....I do think Morning Sedition is having issues despite the chemistry between the Marks...but a local host seems to be the preferred option....so I hope the practice continues....to add local hosts to morning.....but then the right decisions have to be made to fill the slots afterward....i like the Miller, Franken, Rhodes combo...it works and appeals to all areas of the left...moderates, liberals, and center-left can get all the enjoyment with this model..and dont forget Franken is the debunker and his the main person on the left reaching out to conservatives and moderates...so thats covered too. Miller has the Comedy and Randi hits the issues and policy...hard...thats hard to beat to me....and down the road i think time will prove it.....and yes there is a place for Thom, Jay, and others in this model.

 

[dampier]

Re: Radio Equalizer on KIRO Ratings...Listeners Reject New far-left programming 40:83

> Then again, we all know what side of the fence Radio
> Equalizer falls on. If they issued a weather report, I'd
> look out the window to check for myself.

He's not sitting on the fence. He fell off the right side months ago. Anyone can write a blog.

 

[dampier]

Re: Political Ideology and Programming...

> For the last several months, KIRO,KTTH have
> gradually declined 12+ 6a-MID, while Air America/KPTK has
> failed to increase, paralleling negative reviews of
> programming of these stations from the Radio Equalizer.

I'm not going to waste time with the Equalizer, so let me just pose this question.

Why is it a big failure for Air America not to increase their ratings, while it's not such a big deal that KIRO and KTTH have actually dropped in theirs?

And, who the hell cares what the Radio Equalizer thinks. Listeners can judge for themselves whether they like something or not. Who needs him?

 

[dampier]

Re: Radio Equalizer on KIRO Ratings...Listeners Reject New far-left programming 40:83

> 3)Stephanie Miller - underestimated and strongly defended by
> many on this board (and i really enjoy her too) seems to be
> a boost (again my opinion) to stations...she has a funny,
> appealing show that is a better lead in than Springer. I
> wish there was some way to verify if Miller is a boost to
> stations..Id bet stations that have Miller, Franken, and
> Rhodes in that order do better...(my opinion)

This woman is a powerhouse who is completely underappreciated. She's better than Randi Rhodes, and I've been a big fan of Randi's. People who want to laugh and not get lectured to (Majority Report) are going to love this woman and her two sidekicks. But I don't see her as a morning (6-9am PT) show. I guess late morning is okay, but she almost sounds like an afternoon drive host, but the dial is too crowded with the North Dakota Tool and Randi, so I guess that won't play.

Springer's popularity confuses me. I think he's sloppier than Franken when it comes to his on air sound. But the red states love the guy, and he will actually argue with the conservatives and not hang up on them or scream over them like Randi will do, so he gets some respect from them.

> 4) Local hosts (especially in the morning) - Denver and
> Portland I believe support this point that local morning
> hosts help....of course this tells me that there are issues
> with Morning Sedition....or not.....again comments from
> those who are up on the local host issue please comment...

Morning Sedition's humor doesn't work for me that early in the morning. I think local shows are going to eventually replace it, but they're going to take a long time to build ratings too.

 

[Tom_]

AM loop antennas for AAR signals...Syndicate Turi Ryder, Carl Jeffers, Jay Diamond

> Hey thisTom...i didnt mean you on the equalizer......but if
> you go out on the net and news sites and blogs...that
> equalizer guys stuff is all over the net.....and its a
> shame...i know you stand behind your posts...i just don't
> know why those radio people continue to distort..that was
> the main focus of that comment...none directed toward you...

doc9464....yes I know that you were not referring to me here...As for others re-posting the articles elsewhere, I haven't seen the forums. As to dampier's comments above, yes, some of the major Seattle talk stations have been dropping for quite some time 12+ 6a-MID...but I'm not going to mention any more stations...and it's a complicated roller coaster history for some...the best source is radio and records on line...The market losts its business station (Entercom's 1210 KNWX)...

you continue:

>but Shultz is not good in
> Drivetime in Boston nor is Springer at 9am in
> Providence....and maybe its true that Rhodes isnt good for
> drive time 3-7pm in Baton Rouge...but now that we have some
> choices in liberal broadcasters...

If there are choices then markets should choose whatever works best for particular time slots, e.g. air america or non-america programming 3a-9a Pacfic.
You continue:


> strategically....and really focus on building on what has
> already been proven, that the format does have legs...and
> getting me some SIGNAL>>>>>>> god let us get some
> SIGNAL>>>>>>>> lol

Until CP's are granted, one answer I've thought of might be for stations to provide AM loop antennas with their logo and give these out at promotional events and also sell them on-line. They could be produced locally and are not as expensive as sold on-line. Or, better car antennas...e.g. the CC Crane model... Any thoughts?

>Miller has the Comedy
> and Randi hits the issues and policy...hard...thats hard to
> beat to me....and down the road i think time will prove
> it.....and yes there is a place for Thom, Jay, and others in
> this model.

Have you seen the KRXA 540 program schedule for a progressive talk station w/o Air America, Monterey Bay/Carmel Valley with Press, Miller, Hartmann, Schultz, Peter B collins, Lionel, Doug BAsham, etc.

Others that I think would be great syndicated hosts include Jay Diamond - WRKO / Boston, and Carl Jeffers & Turi Ryder of newsradio 710 KIRO / Seattle.
Have you heard Turi's Sunday night show 7p-9p? Or Carl Jeffers on KIRO Sundays 10a-1p? Their shows are my favorite shows of my weekend along with Bob Brinker (esp. when he discusses oil and progressive energy policy) and John Rothmann/KGO.

Turi will be substituting Mon and Tues this week 6p-9p Pacific on KIRO (streaming is available).<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by this Tom: on 08/01/05 07:10 AM.</FONT></P>