Limbaugh fees?

[MikefromDelaware]

Limbaugh reruns are not ideal, but they're ten times better than "Ask the Mechanic"

'Depends on the mechanic.

I'm sure Premiere Radio, ABC Radio, and Westwood One wish they had Tom and Ray Mariozi (sp) from NPR's Car Talk. Problem is a commercial network probably wouldn't have given their show a shot. They are one of NPR's biggest draws.

Even local home fixit shows can be very good. WILM airs a local plumber/home fixit guy every Saturday morning. The guy is a licensed Plumber and Contractor and he knows his stuff. He's not as entertaining (that is funny) as The Car Talk guys, but Ralph Woodrow is a wealth of good useful information. His show gets a lot of calls. That's got to be better than hearing old out dated slanted news from elRushbo, especially if you already heard it earlier during the week. It would be interesting to hear from folks who work at stations that air Limbaugh during the week and his weekend reviews and see how few listeners they get for Mr. Humble and Modest on the weekend.

Unfortunately, far too many PD's consider the weekend as dead air time. They don't see the opportunity to make more money. Provide programming that attracts listeners and then you'd be able to sell more air time on weekends. Consider that some of NPR's most popular shows air during the weekend (Car Talk, A Prarie Home Companion, Michael Feldman's What do ya know, Weekend Edition). So yes listeners will listen on the weekend IF you give them something of value, to their ear, to listen to. Best of shows and re-runs, no matter how great are not the best solution to grow a weekend audience. Spoken word formats are different than music formats. Music can be repeated, but spoken word shows (talk, dramas, comedies, sportscasts, audio book readings, yes even preachers, etc) will be remembered and would be boring for the fans of the particular show so they'd tune out.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

One more point. National radio preachers (who preach about God, are essentially religious versions of Limbaugh and Hannity) many of whom are on the air 7 days a week do not do best of shows, unless they are out sick or on vacation (even then they'll have their associate pastor, etc fill in. They do a new show each day, even their weekend shows, because they realize their audience wouldn't want to hear a best of show on Saturday or Sunday. There's a lesson for "secular" talk radio that can be learned from religious talk radio. The big difference between Limbaugh and the National Preachers is Limbaugh's weekday show is popular enough that he can force stations to carry his reruns on the weekends, where as the Preachers have to depend on listeners voting with their wallets to keep their show on the air. So they've got the incentive to go the extra mile and do fresh weekend programs.

 

[Don62]

Re: "Maybe Holland Cooke can enlighten us on the cost benefit ratio"

Somebody has to pay for Rush and Sean, and here's who's paying:

Stations, via:

1. Cash fees, which Limbaugh's handlers have always calculated very carefully. They know -- right-down-to-FICA -- how much a station would have to pay a local host instead.

2. Out-of-program spots, i.e., Rush Morning Update, which is either:
a.) subtracted-from the station's morning inventory (costing them cash); or
b.) added-to the station's morning inventory (costing them tune-out).

3. A

Isn't that S-O-B and arrogant B--terd wonderful?

He preaches how people should do everything on their own. "Work their way up their bootstraps" without any help from anyone - particularly the government.

"I did it, so can you."

Yet the hyprocrite doesn't tell his audience he's cleverly backstabbed any potential competitors - and thus helps keep any potential future talk radio stars from starting.

 

[del_griffith]

He was heckled a few years ago when he did a modestly attended live event in NYC shortly after his brief WABC weekend exposure.

Cue "Garden Party" by Rick Nelson.
Possibly too un-hip-for-the-house in Noo Yawk?
THAT crowd -- likely dressed head-to-toe in black -- was probably choking on credit card debt.

I hadn't heard that particular story, but know plenty of others about Dave packing venues elsewhere.
Watching the crowd, you'd think he was Anthony Robbins or Paul McCartney.

NYC was an abberation. It was Dave's first step outside his familiar territory. Where he didn't have a strong affiliate. Where he didn't have a loyal base of support. Not saying WABC isn't strong, but Dave's show was a replay on a Sunday afternoon. Not a live NYC dedicated show or exactly prime time.

And you're right. To those who have drank the Dave-Aide, he is their Tony Robbins. About the only other prosperity financial person who seems to draw bigger crowds in all regions is Joyce Meyer and her audience is different.

Dave, especially in the last few years, has employed a very sophisticated look at where to hold his live venues. And that's why he keeps returning to Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Colorado Springs, Atlanta and Kansas City, places where does pretty well that also have a low or modest Cost of Living and is Bible Belt or quasi Bible Belt and/or military.

Dave doesn't have strong clearance on the west or east coasts or many major cities such as NYC, LA, San Fran, Chicago, Boston, Philly, Baltimore all areas with high cost of living issues.

And in most areas, he is not on the big sticks in town. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are the exception, not the rule. My guess is PD's don't want him on the compeitiors outlet, but they don't want him on their big sticks either.

My point is he has not done well cracking the large city, the coasts and the High Cost of Living regions. And I'm not sure he can or will.

 

[Prais]

Don,

Rush's handlers are doing nothing illegal or wrong. Rush is a success. If you want him, PAY for him. The reward of success. Don't tell me you would do it differently. My dzia dzia told me to "Make hay while the sun shines." I once owned a rimshot that Rush dropped for a major flamethrower after a year. That's life. It's his privilege. I found a great counter-program there, and got newspaper publicity for the switch.

Mikeindelaware, I know lots of stations (including my own) where the weekend preacher shows were BONUSED or discounted if the preacher signs a long enough deal for the weekday slot. Jimmy Swaggart's wife LOVED it!

On Sunday a few of my stations had 14 hours (5a-7p) of back to back religion. WHO LISTENED TO THAT? I don't know and I DON'T care - because I was going to the bank. I hired a minimum wage radio lover who was "mentally challenged" to run the board (and got an award from the mayor for that) and only sent around 28 bills for Sunday, while I had to send 280 bills (and co-op crap) for 14 weekday hours.

All the preachers paid in 30 days, too.

BTW, Rush's listeners also vote with their wallets - or he couldn't do those deals you loathe.

 

[gr8oldies]

You're a TV station and want Oprah, you pay what she demands. Why is that OK and not when its Rush? Oprah has the correct politics and that makes the difference?

 

[Holland Cooke]

Rush IS to-radio what-Oprah-is-to-television.

Good analogy.
Each is the biggest syndicated act in his/her medium.

Both charge big fees, and cram-down other clearance demands.

Both have changed stations in various markets, often because the incumbent affiliate couldn't make the business model work any more, or because the syndicator walked-across-the-street for more money and/or cram-downs.

If you know anyone who runs an Oprah-affiliated TV station, you know that they're agonizing her deal the same way radio stations are making the kind of hard choices the ex-Limbaugh affiliate in Erie did.

Stay tuned...
HC
www.HollandCooke.com

 

[Don62]

Don,

Rush's handlers are doing nothing illegal or wrong. Rush is a success. If you want him, PAY for him. The reward of success. Don't tell me you would do it differently. My dzia dzia told me to "Make hay while the sun shines." I once owned a rimshot that Rush dropped for a major flamethrower after a year. That's life. It's his privilege. I found a great counter-program there, and got newspaper publicity for the switch.

Wrong and illegal are different words. What they're doing is clearly wrong, studying their affiliate station DOWN TO THE FRIGGIN' W-2 AND FICA.... and strong-arming them.

What other demands does the EIB creeps have? That no host of opposite political views follow or precede his show?

See how much disdain he has for his industry? Advertising his independent streaming inside of his terrestrial show.

What a hypocrite.

And here's a host who claims he doesn't listen to other talk radio. Yeah, like a newspaper reporter who thinks he's so good he doesn't read other newspapers, magazines or listen to radio news.

 

[Prais]

Don,
Easy, old boy. Don't have a stroke over this.

NOTHING they are doing is wrong. EIB can "study" the amount of water the stations use. SO WHAT? It's research so they can get the best deal for themse;ves. Stations accept the deal every day.
EIB CAN do it. If you don't like it, don't carry him. Case closed.

Obviously it is working - successfully. You seem to be confusing "disdain" with "the spoils of victory." YOU are not the GOD of radio (I'm not either). YOU can't stop it, or punish it. As I said, It comes with DEMAND for the show. Sheesh. If you don't like it, play someone else.

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "If you don't like it, play someone else."

Exactly.

And THAT'S the-story-to-watch.

In 2009, it won't be a matter of whether-stations-"like it."
Many already don't.
But they don't approach programming as art.
Their-liking-it isn't an issue.

Many station managers don't understand the potential of Talk Radio programming. They came from Sales on the music FM side; and they buy-into the typecasting that Talk Radio should be about politics, and right-leaning; notwithstanding the loud-and-clear message we heard on November 4.

TOO many GMs don't even listen! The six hours Rush and Sean cover are no-touch hours during-which management doesn't have to think about the once-proud transmitter they now dismissively refer to as "the AM..." until now.

In Erie, the syndicator's demands FORCED management to pay attention.
Before those demands broke-the-bank, Rush could hide-in-plain-sight.
One-promo-after-another to listen-instead-to "Rush 24/7."

But there IS a breaking point.
THAT'S the story to watch in '09.

 

[Don62]

Don,
Easy, old boy. Don't have a stroke over this.

NOTHING they are doing is wrong. EIB can "study" the amount of water the stations use. SO WHAT? It's research so they can get the best deal for themse;ves. Stations accept the deal every day.
EIB CAN do it. If you don't like it, don't carry him. Case closed.

Obviously it is working - successfully. You seem to be confusing "disdain" with "the spoils of victory." YOU are not the GOD of radio (I'm not either). YOU can't stop it, or punish it. As I said, It comes with DEMAND for the show. Sheesh. If you don't like it, play someone else.

So you want to be successful, but you for sure don't want anyone else achieving success, right?

Man, that boob has learned a lot from thugs like Clear Ch., Cumulus, CBS, Cox, et. al. who buy up every station they can in a market to keep anyone else out - then gut the properties and run them by computer.

 

[Holland Cooke]

What about THE LISTENER?

Clear Ch., Cumulus, CBS, Cox, et. al. who buy up every station they can in a market to keep anyone else out - then gut the properties and run them by computer.

No question: That's the sad consequence of what's happened, as-gradually-as-it-has since Telecom 1996 de-reg.

Programming department staffers who (a) are too-few to program the station, and (b) ought to be concentrating-on programming-the-station, have been distracted by E.B.I.T.A. and other non-listener-centric issues.

Story-to-watch in '09: Will some good come of what's happened?
IS the system self-correcting?
Or have iTunes/Internet/satellite/et al reduced transmitters' clout for keeps?

 

[gr8oldies]

Dayton, Ohio, 1975. There were four viable broadcasting companies that owned an AM and an FM apiece. Now there are three that own between four and 8 signals apiece. There are probably 30 signals in the market, and I'd think you'd be hard pressed to find enough ad revenue that would keep 30 individual owners in the black. There really isn't an unlimited pile of advertising cash (or listener donations for that matter).

Does Oprah "let her competition win"? Encourage viewers to watch Ellen on the competing channel? Didn't think so.

Yes, the election results are what they were. However, I don't believe conservatism lost because conservatism didn't run. Huge increases in spending, the nationalilization of the banking industry, and the beginnings of the nationalization of the auto industry are hardly conservative principals. There's a difference between 'we want a Socialist USA" and "we'rfe throwing the bums out". Now early indications are that Obama will be governing from the center, not from the far left wing of the Democratic party. I don't know if i'd be that quick to flip to libtalk.

 

[One Who Knows]

Dayton, Ohio, 1975. There were four viable broadcasting companies that owned an AM and an FM apiece. Now there are three that own between four and 8 signals apiece. There are probably 30 signals in the market, and I'd think you'd be hard pressed to find enough ad revenue that would keep 30 individual owners in the black. There really isn't an unlimited pile of advertising cash (or listener donations for that matter).

Does Oprah "let her competition win"? Encourage viewers to watch Ellen on the competing channel? Didn't think so.

Yes, the election results are what they were. However, I don't believe conservatism lost because conservatism didn't run. Huge increases in spending, the nationalilization of the banking industry, and the beginnings of the nationalization of the auto industry are hardly conservative principals. There's a difference between 'we want a Socialist USA" and "we'rfe throwing the bums out". Now early indications are that Obama will be governing from the center, not from the far left wing of the Democratic party. I don't know if i'd be that quick to flip to libtalk.

Yeah...and those "not-so-viable" companies in Dayton...were really "not-so-viable", even back then. OK jobs if you liked working for minimum wage, but other than that...

 

[gr8oldies]

Just trying to remember how many formats 95.3 went through as an independent. 103.9 had at least CHR, A/C, country and oldies.

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "I don't know if i'd be that quick to flip to libtalk."

AMEN!

If you're talking about politics, you're flirting with irrelevance.

On November 4, a record turnout wasn't rejecting-Republicans-for-Democrats.
They were rejecting the conversation about Republicans-vs.-Democrats, the Talk Radio caricature.
"I-talk-you-listen-I'm-right-you're-wrong-and-that-makes-you-a-bad-person" lost to "Let's try to fix things."

Circumstances-gone-awry pushed life issues to the foreground.
Arguing got old.
People are now coping, if that.
Smart stations will be talking AND LISTENING accordingly.

Good afternoon from Block Island (or, to paraphrase Tina Fey-as-Sarah Palin: "I can see America from my house").
HC
www.HollandCooke.com

 

[One Who Knows]

Just trying to remember how many formats 95.3 went through as an independent. 103.9 had at least CHR, A/C, country and oldies.

From the best that I can remember - it went something like this:

Country - Adult Top 40 - Country Again - CHR - 80's (for a month) - Oldies -

Am I forgetting anything?

 

[Don62]

Just trying to remember how many formats 95.3 went through as an independent. 103.9 had at least CHR, A/C, country and oldies.

What kind of argument is that for mega corporate ownership?
I thought people here believed in free enterprise, not big companies trying to control a big part of the industry.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Mikeindelaware, I know lots of stations (including my own) where the weekend preacher shows were BONUSED or discounted if the preacher signs a long enough deal for the weekday slot. Jimmy Swaggart's wife LOVED it!

On Sunday a few of my stations had 14 hours (5a-7p) of back to back religion. WHO LISTENED TO THAT? I don't know and I DON'T care - because I was going to the bank. I hired a minimum wage radio lover who was "mentally challenged" to run the board (and got an award from the mayor for that) and only sent around 28 bills for Sunday, while I had to send 280 bills (and co-op crap) for 14 weekday hours.

All the preachers paid in 30 days, too.

BTW, Rush's listeners also vote with their wallets - or he couldn't do those deals you loathe.

So many preachers are given a discounted fee schedule if they'll add weekdays to their weekend show. Ok, but these preachers are still doing 7 new shows a week, not a best of or a week in review show, which was my point.

Explain to me how Rush's listeners vote with their wallets. I'd agree that they vote with their ears, but they don't have to pony up a dime to keep elRushbo on the air. Unlike the preacher who depends on listen support to pay their bills which pays for the radio time as you know. Limbaugh has sponsors who do that. Sure some listeners will actually go and buy stuff from the sponsors. It would be interesting to find out how many of Rush's listeners have bought a steel building from General Steel.

Your radio stations air 14 hours of religious programming on Sunday and you can't believe there are folks who'd listen to all that. You apparently aren't among the listeners, but there are people who do listen, some all day long to Christian programming, both preaching and music. Some will tune in for their favorite shows (those are the shows they send donations to).

As you know better than I (as you apparently own a number of radio stations) even though your audience ratings may be lower during your religious block of programs, those listeners are loyal and do financially support those shows (both the good preachers, who are truly men of God, and the Charleton's unfortunately too). As you also mentioned the preachers for the most part, pay on time every month. It's a lot less cost and work for you then sending sales people out to sell air time and the hassles of getting your money, etc.

But the bottom line to this, at least as far as my points were, is those preachers generally do not air reruns. They offer a new show 7 days a week, again, because if the listeners tune out due to "hey I already heard that last week" they lose real money out of their pocket. Most pastors of real churches also generally do not re-run sermons. If they use a sermon topic or thought from a few years ago, they'll update it so it may have some of the old in it, but it also has much new insight as well, so it still isn't a full re-run as they've taken that thought or theological point to a new level, etc. Rush could/should do a new Saturday show if he wants all his stations to carry it rather than his lame week in review that is being aired now, in my opinion, or the affiliates should not be forced to carry it.

In one sense Rush is saying that the weekends aren't very important to a radio station, but I've noticed he generally does not air best of shows during the week, he'll instead get a guest host, because he makes his money Monday - Friday. But as you've seen with your own stations, you can indeed make money on the weekends so why be penalized into having to air a rerun show that isn't going to make your stations any money on Saturday.

 

[Jimme]

I don't know about Rush never doing propmos. he's voiced some new ones for WHIO promoting University of Dayton basketball.

What about Dave Ramsey vs. Clark Howard? Clark has all the info (even if the presentation is a bit too laid back) with none of the preachiness. His star is rising because of the CNN Headline deal.

Before Clark Howard, there was Bruce Williams, who seems to fallen off the map. Any clues why Bruce Williams has been reduced to satellite radio. Any chance ofhim returning to stations in the future?