Limbaugh, on WOR, lost half of his WABC audience share

[TheBigA]

Notice how Rush has been dropped by stations and groups outside IHeartMitt.

Not exactly. He was dropped by KFI Los Angeles & KKSF San Francisco, replaced by a local host, and moved to another smaller IHR station.

 

[chrocket87]

Only agenda? Hardly. But a factor. Neither of us has seen the books so we don't know if Rush is making money these days - for Premiere or for individual stations. Most of those stations are not owned by IHeartBain, so they are concerned only with their own revenues. Notice how Rush has been dropped by stations and groups outside IHeartMitt. And even for IHeartless, it is likely Rush's revenues are way down. But somebody likes him at IHeartTea and he is consistent with the "agenda" (as you call it) of the people running the company, so they cut him some slack for now in the face of declining revenue.

Welcome back, Fred.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Not true. There's a huge farm system. Lots of local talk show hosts. Probably more than when Rush started. In fact, a lot of them work at IHeart stations. Most of them are better than Rush. The real question is why would IHeart pay someone 40 million, when they can hire a lot of local hosts for less?

Because his down ratings are higher than most hosts up ratings? Particularly when taken as a national audience - anyone can cherry pick ratings in an individual market.

 

[semoochie]

delete

 

[semoochie]

"They draw the same demo but not nearly as many."

So, they draw fewer people in the same demo that's too old. That isn't very good news for the future of the format.

 

[umfan]

Welcome back, Fred.

That's what I've been thinking too, but he was never one to hide, so I'm still undecided.

 

[wadio]

"They [other hosts] draw the same demo but not nearly as many."

So, they draw fewer people in the same demo that's too old. That isn't very good news for the future of the format.

That's why the exiting of Rush would be a shot in the arm for talk radio. The absence of Rush (and Sean and Levin) might bring fresher and younger hosts into the market. That could spark some renewed interest in talk. As it is now, Rush is doing his schtick out of habit and listeners are listening out of habit.

The format needs a shakeup -- not a shift to "lifestyles" or "hot talk," but younger and fresher news-talk. The hosts are out there but they're overshadowed by the Linbaugh-Hannity-Levin blockade. People think THAT'S what talk radio is and, naturally, they stay away.

 

[TTalkradio1]

That's why the exiting of Rush would be a shot in the arm for talk radio. The absence of Rush (and Sean and Levin) might bring fresher and younger hosts into the market. That could spark some renewed interest in talk. As it is now, Rush is doing his schtick out of habit and listeners are listening out of habit.

The format needs a shakeup -- not a shift to "lifestyles" or "hot talk," but younger and fresher news-talk. The hosts are out there but they're overshadowed by the Linbaugh-Hannity-Levin blockade. People think THAT'S what talk radio is and, naturally, they stay away.

If they're so good, they would get better ratings than Levin etc. You don't like the politics of talk radio.

 

[TheBigA]

So, they draw fewer people in the same demo that's too old. That isn't very good news for the future of the format.

It depends on who you're talking about. When you look at stations like KFI and WLW, stations that are built around local hosts rather than Rush, the numbers are pretty good. When KFI spun Rush off to KEIB, they were able to cut costs and focus on local talk. And while KFI's ratings are down slightly, they seem to be suffering less than stations that still have Rush.

Because his down ratings are higher than most hosts up ratings? Particularly when taken as a national audience - anyone can cherry pick ratings in an individual market.

We're not talking about a "national audience." Stations are sold locally. The only company that cares about the national audience is the syndicator. The local stations can see that Rush is no longer their highest rated day-part. Yet they're paying more for him than any other show, including their local morning show. So why pay a million in fees to carry a show that only makes half of that?

The format needs a shakeup -- not a shift to "lifestyles" or "hot talk," but younger and fresher news-talk.

That's an interesting thought. One of the characteristics of GenY is they prefer interaction to a lecture. One way to lose Gen Y is to talk AT them. It's a big issue among educators. This is a generation that's used to call & response, pushing a button and seeing a light come on. Talk radio, by definition, doesn't work that way. Talkers need to learn from music DJs who conduct interactive shows on social media, while using their on-air show as the punctuation point.

Just saw this, and I guess it confirms your view:

http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/a...esearch-center-study-top-radio-hosts-rank-low

 

[BarryATL]

That's an interesting thought. One of the characteristics of GenY is they prefer interaction to a lecture. One way to lose Gen Y is to talk AT them. It's a big issue among educators. This is a generation that's used to call & response, pushing a button and seeing a light come on. Talk radio, by definition, doesn't work that way. Talkers need to learn from music DJs who conduct interactive shows on social media, while using their on-air show as the punctuation point.

Just saw this, and I guess it confirms your view:

http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/a...esearch-center-study-top-radio-hosts-rank-low

In the early days of talk PDs pushed the hosts to take so many calls per hour. As years have gone by the call count gets less and less. We hear the host drone on and on about one particular point. I am not a PD, but I think talk would do better if they picked up the pace. Spending 20 minutes talking about one point and then taking one phone call does not set well with me. I am 53 and don't have that kind of attention span.

 

[wadio]

You don't like the politics of talk radio.

Wrong. It's a matter of style not political leaning. I think hosts like Rush-Hannity-Levin actually hurt the conservative ideology they try to promote (some of which I happen to agree with) because they present it in such a humorless and dogmatic way. If I were a Republican politician I'd want nothing to do with these guys.

BTW, what I like or don't like has little to do with this discussion.

 

[wadio]

When KFI spun Rush off to KEIB, they were able to cut costs and focus on local talk. And while KFI's ratings are down slightly, they seem to be suffering less than stations that still have Rush.
//
One of the characteristics of GenY is they prefer interaction to a lecture. One way to lose Gen Y is to talk AT them. It's a big issue among educators. This is a generation that's used to call & response, pushing a button and seeing a light come on. Talk radio, by definition, doesn't work that way. Talkers need to learn from music DJs who conduct interactive shows on social media, while using their on-air show as the punctuation point.

I wish everyone on this board would spend some time streaming John & Ken on KFI. It's an example of what a news/talk radio show CAN be. They're passionate about their views but they don't try to ram an agenda down people's throats by "lecturing" as you say. Instead they use humor and irony to entertain. And they get into all kinds of news -- not just politics.

Good talk radio shouldn't be a lecture. It works best, IMO, with a host or hosts commenting on and reacting to the news of the day. That's the way the early Rush, Bob Grant and others conducted their shows. Somehow that model has been lost to mainstream talk radio but it still exists. I think it will resurface but it will take an inflection point. The implosion of EIB might create that opportunity.

And if talk shows are conducted that way I don't think we need to worry too much about "trust" -- precisely because there are so many sources of information out there today. I get most of my "news" from the Internet but I still love listening to radio talk shows that kick around the stories in a unique, often irreverent way. You just can't get quite that experience online (other than streaming conventional talk radio.)

 

[TheBigA]

Somehow that model has been lost to mainstream talk radio but it still exists. I think it will resurface but it will take an inflection point. The implosion of EIB might create that opportunity.

I think the decision has already been made. John & Ken are the new "mainstream." There have been no new syndicated talk shows launched in the last two years, and there will be no replacements for those dying out.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Pardon another 'duh' moment for me ; I forget which major market station announced that he wasn't going to be renewed. WRKO, maybe ?

For we radio geeks here, who often deal with the symbolism that gets overlooked or ignored by current management, that revelation came on election day 2015.

Politically, you either worship the guy or you consider him the antichrist. Me? Politics notwithstanding, I can't listen to him for any length of time because he hasn't completed a sentence in ten years.

Still, I'm certain that when Rush leaves, whether you regard him as Solomon or as a high-tech Archie Bunker, the AM dial goes with him.

I'd have to disagree. In the top 10 markets there are still healthy AM facilities, NY: WINS, WCBS, WFAN, LA; KFI, KNX, Chicago; WBBM, WGN, WSCR San Francisco; KCBS, KNBR Philadelphia; KYW Atlanta; WSB Boston WBZ. The answer appears to be that none of these stations act like a repeater for syndicated fare on a 24/7 basis. Put some money into programing a station with a decent signal, live and local and you'll get a response. Otherwise you might as well turn off your transmitter and go home.

 

[TheBigA]

Put some money into programing a station with a decent signal, live and local and you'll get a response.

Maybe. Your list ignores lots of other stations like WPHT and KABC that are pouring money into live & local and not getting the same results as WSB.

And of the ones you list, several are struggling, most notably KNX and WSCR.

 

[briancraig]

KABC has signal issues so probably nothing could really be done on that frequency that would generate a large audience.

I thought KNX was doing ok and WSCR seems to have healthy ratings. Would "struggling" really be the right word for those stations?

 

[TheBigA]

I thought KNX was doing ok and WSCR seems to have healthy ratings. Would "struggling" really be the right word for those stations?

They're not in the Top 10. WLS has a 1 share with local talk on a powerful signal. My point is that money & signal aren't all it takes for success.

 

[davideduardo]

In the early days of talk PDs pushed the hosts to take so many calls per hour. As years have gone by the call count gets less and less.

An area of this discussion that is often neglected is that of the growth of cellular phone usage.

In the 90's when talk radio depended on lots of calls, cellular phones started to be a problem. From dropouts to dueling codecs between cellphone compression algorithms and radio station audio processing, cell phones generally sounded awful. Some stations simply would not allow them on the air... others would have screeners decide if the quality was adequate.

The more cellphone callers stations got, the more of the incoming calls were not broadcast quality. And of those that were good quality, many would drop out or go into flanging, echo, stutter or some other digital artifact part way into the call.

The end result was to do longer setups, longer restarts and use less of each call as "content". Somehow, we got from a point of moderation to a point of elimination... which I think may be partly to do with the cost cutting of the recession which eliminated many call screeners.

 

[davideduardo]

They're not in the Top 10. WLS has a 1 share with local talk on a powerful signal. My point is that money & signal aren't all it takes for success.

And even the ones that are in or close to the top 10 are nowhere near there in 25-54.

While KFI and KNX are 5th and 6th in billing in LA, they are slipping badly in 25-54. KFI was 23rd in Jan-Feb-Mar average and KNX was 26th.

Like many such AMs, they are helped by a format which tolerates lots more spots. So they can sell at a lower rate commensurate with delivery and make up for it on bulk.

 

[TTalkradio1]

Calls were gone before the recession hit.