-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Limbaugh on WRDU
- Thread starter pellmell
- Start date
Any station picking up Rush Limbaugh is a good thing because you will get his legion of LOYAL listeners.
WPTF went from being a top 3 station plummeting to the bottom of the ratings. I would think it's fair to say things are not working out for WPTF.
I live in Greensboro, former WSJS Morning Show Host Brian Freeman is now at WPTF? Any Raliegh listeners have any input on how that show is goin??
WPTF went from being a top 3 station plummeting to the bottom of the ratings. I would think it's fair to say things are not working out for WPTF.
I live in Greensboro, former WSJS Morning Show Host Brian Freeman is now at WPTF? Any Raliegh listeners have any input on how that show is goin??
stafferman said:
WPTF probably needs to get to FM. That would be their best chance to make up ground against WRDU.
Despite Rush's transition to RDU, along with all his outlets in the country, his ratings are starting to lag. Seems all the negativity spouted duing his show during this recession is making his "legions" of fans rethink their position. Who wants to hear negative comments all the time? The listeners are starting to respond by picking stations with more positive messages/programming. It's all cyclable anyway, live and local will start to return slowly but surely as that is something syndicated programming can't counter. Music radio wil continue to suffer as more and more media comes along where we can carry our own music lbraries with us and not be subjected to HOT and Recurrent rotations that offer the same old same old. Repetition has pretty much killed music radio already. Watch for even more FM Talkers to come along!
If any of you think that just because of Rush WPTF and WSJS have been successful over the years, then you just don't know much about radio. It is a total package. Yes, Limbaugh can be a centerpiece, but if you examine ratings of both stations through the last 15 years, you will find they had other strong elements that contributed to the overall success (ratings & dollars).
Both stations had strong, long running morning shows (at least up until four years ago). And with no disrespect to Brian Freeman (who has been on both), the Morning News programs just didn't have the highly local appeal the previous shows had.
The transition to "pay to play" radio has been detrimental to both (particularly to WSJS). It has been a long, slippery slope that began ten years ago. The amount of money a "guest expert" spent with the station over the course of a year was more important than the content they shared with the listeners. Guest slots were "sold" to people who had little mass appeal, and didn't really grasp the idea of "give the listener something he can use for free, and when it comes times for him to spend money, he will spend it with you".
There are a few who got it - Mike Wells, The Hungerfords, Gib & John, David Dalrymple (when he did the handyman show), the early Computer Talk folks (Steve and Stephen, Deb & Gary). Most of the others were either too narrowly targeted (sales training, elder care, and other highly specialized fields) or always answered "you can call the office and we will set up an appointment" or "bring it by the store and we'll see what's wrong".
There is a BIG difference between Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey. Dave talks about nothing but being totally out of debt! Clark talks about travel, technology, dealing with customer service, and lots of things you can put to use daily. Ramsey has bought his way onto radio stations across the country.
Want to have a successful radio station? It is simple. Figure out what attracts listeners and sell them to advertisers. It is NOT a chicken or egg thing! The listener must come first, but seldom does.
Both stations had strong, long running morning shows (at least up until four years ago). And with no disrespect to Brian Freeman (who has been on both), the Morning News programs just didn't have the highly local appeal the previous shows had.
The transition to "pay to play" radio has been detrimental to both (particularly to WSJS). It has been a long, slippery slope that began ten years ago. The amount of money a "guest expert" spent with the station over the course of a year was more important than the content they shared with the listeners. Guest slots were "sold" to people who had little mass appeal, and didn't really grasp the idea of "give the listener something he can use for free, and when it comes times for him to spend money, he will spend it with you".
There are a few who got it - Mike Wells, The Hungerfords, Gib & John, David Dalrymple (when he did the handyman show), the early Computer Talk folks (Steve and Stephen, Deb & Gary). Most of the others were either too narrowly targeted (sales training, elder care, and other highly specialized fields) or always answered "you can call the office and we will set up an appointment" or "bring it by the store and we'll see what's wrong".
There is a BIG difference between Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey. Dave talks about nothing but being totally out of debt! Clark talks about travel, technology, dealing with customer service, and lots of things you can put to use daily. Ramsey has bought his way onto radio stations across the country.
Want to have a successful radio station? It is simple. Figure out what attracts listeners and sell them to advertisers. It is NOT a chicken or egg thing! The listener must come first, but seldom does.
Mike, while I don't disagree with a lot of what you said, in light of your comments, please explain why WPTF crashed and burned with the loss of Limbaugh and Hannity. Was the decline a timing coincidence? Should the rest of the "package" have been able to sustain the station with at least modest ratings?
Your post seems to support the proposition (don't let me put words in your mouth) that the morning show and even Beck on WRDU may be the reasons that WRDU is not number three in the market, like WPTF was before the fall. Disclaimer: I don't know the detailed numbers for the market, as you can see from my prior posts. Maybe WRDU is doing better than I think they are based on the numbers I've seen on this board.
Your post seems to support the proposition (don't let me put words in your mouth) that the morning show and even Beck on WRDU may be the reasons that WRDU is not number three in the market, like WPTF was before the fall. Disclaimer: I don't know the detailed numbers for the market, as you can see from my prior posts. Maybe WRDU is doing better than I think they are based on the numbers I've seen on this board.
Rush, Beck, and Hannity are National shows. They (Rush, Sean) performed well on WPTF.
They perform well on WRDU.
The problem for WPTF is "what is local". With a multi-city market, it's very difficult. People in Durham don't care about what's going on in Wake County. Do Johnson County residents care about Chapel Hill? Easier to program local News/Talk for Chicago or even Richmond, VA than a diverse multi-city market.
Maybe the answer is for WPTF to just focus on local news, topics, and lifestyle for Raleigh/Wake only. It's a big chunk of the market, anyway.
I don't know if local is the answer. I'd put Imus in the Mornings on WPTF. He does a great news, funny, and lifestyle oriented show. Better than any local host in the market.
I'm just ramblin'....
They perform well on WRDU.
The problem for WPTF is "what is local". With a multi-city market, it's very difficult. People in Durham don't care about what's going on in Wake County. Do Johnson County residents care about Chapel Hill? Easier to program local News/Talk for Chicago or even Richmond, VA than a diverse multi-city market.
Maybe the answer is for WPTF to just focus on local news, topics, and lifestyle for Raleigh/Wake only. It's a big chunk of the market, anyway.
I don't know if local is the answer. I'd put Imus in the Mornings on WPTF. He does a great news, funny, and lifestyle oriented show. Better than any local host in the market.
I'm just ramblin'....
Is or was WPTF's programming so weak it could not withstand the loss of Rush & Sean? Seems to this outsider WPTF was the go-to station for news and information in the Triangle area for many years. Listeners aren't likely to get that from WRDU. After all, it is Rush Radio 106.1.
WPTF was a top 5 station in the Triangle until CC pulled Rush & Sean. As I posted earlier, a move to FM would help but it comes down to programming. WPTF has to offer Triangle listeners what WRDU doesn't and that's a local focus. 24/7 local news/talk is expensive, but it should be about 2/3 local. Late night and overnight syndication is OK.
Just MHO!
WPTF was a top 5 station in the Triangle until CC pulled Rush & Sean. As I posted earlier, a move to FM would help but it comes down to programming. WPTF has to offer Triangle listeners what WRDU doesn't and that's a local focus. 24/7 local news/talk is expensive, but it should be about 2/3 local. Late night and overnight syndication is OK.
Just MHO!
I don't think people aren't listening to WPTF because they don't know about it. Hence, a move to FM won't gain ANY new listeners or attract younger demos. It IS about the programming and the programming doesn't attract an audience. You may have seen the May ratings for Raleigh and the cume for WPTF PLUS WZTK basically equals the cume of WRDU
Mike's thoughts about paid programming really speaks to an article I read from one consultant about stations that choose short-term gains (cash) over long-term liabilities (ratings, harmful elements to brand, programming with little or no value to listeners). It may make sense to put the "Snake Charmer Hour" on Saturday morning at 8, but when listeners go away and then don't come back (especially in PPM world), you've traded away a LOT of money (ratings points) for a little revenue
Mike's thoughts about paid programming really speaks to an article I read from one consultant about stations that choose short-term gains (cash) over long-term liabilities (ratings, harmful elements to brand, programming with little or no value to listeners). It may make sense to put the "Snake Charmer Hour" on Saturday morning at 8, but when listeners go away and then don't come back (especially in PPM world), you've traded away a LOT of money (ratings points) for a little revenue
Longtime lurker/reader of the board and enjoy the conversations.
I'm not affiliated with radio, but I acutally enjoy the local angle WPTF provides.
It sort of reminds me of the way WPTF used to be in the 1970's and 80's. Basically, they were live and local from sunup to sundown.
With losing Rush, Hannity, etc, sure it took a ratings downturn, but IMO the local coverage and talk is great and you certainly can't rely on RDU for local breaking news/weather coverage. Just my 02.
I'm not affiliated with radio, but I acutally enjoy the local angle WPTF provides.
It sort of reminds me of the way WPTF used to be in the 1970's and 80's. Basically, they were live and local from sunup to sundown.
With losing Rush, Hannity, etc, sure it took a ratings downturn, but IMO the local coverage and talk is great and you certainly can't rely on RDU for local breaking news/weather coverage. Just my 02.
goatboy said:
It seems people knew about WPTF before CC gave Rush & Sean their own outlet. WPTF was a highly rated station before WRDU launched. Also, WPTF was a respected brand in the Triangle area for many years. If losing Rush & Sean had such an impact than maybe it's time to focus on local coverage.
Again, just MHO.
Q96 Fan said:
Very true! I'm in the NY market where we have two 50 kW AM blaster talk outlets, WOR and WABC, both of which air mostly syndicated programming! NY area issues are rarely if ever discussed. WABC, the long-time flagship for Rush and Sean might just as well be Rush Radio, even though CC doesn't own it. If you want local breaking news/weather coverage, you go to WCBS-AM and WINS, the all-news stations both owned by CBS.
IMHO, having two all-news stations is no excuse not to have a talk station that focuses on NY area issues and is at least 50% local. WPTF's focus is on the news and issues of the Triangle area. WPTF may need some tweaking and perhaps a move to FM, but it still provides a valuable service.
The big difference with WPTF/WSJS vs. the FM Rush Radio stations is that when Limbaugh and Hannity were on the AM stations, they were true news-talk stations. They had strong local news coverage to compliment the national shows. With the Rush Radio stations, the local news coverage is very weak. The same stories are repeated throughout the day with few or no updates or developments. The FM stations are more talk than news-talk.
S
Spininturn1
Guest
According to the May PPM data, El Rushbo is #1 with men 25-54 and #5 adults 25-54. On WPTF Rush was typically #1 in both. Keep in mind, the PPM has not been kind to Rush, so a drop was most likely going to happen even without a station switch.
My previous point was this: the demise of WSJS & WPTF has been a gradual thing. The loss of Rush and Hannity capped it off. Add to that the replacement program, Dave Ramsey (who I am sure is a very nice person) gave the Limbaugh listeners no alternative.
Had they replaced Rush with a well produced, local show, things might be different today.
Because both stations cover large geographic areas, the topics need to be broad, but what a year we have had in Raleigh - with new leadership in the legislature and the battle between them and the governor. That kind of split government makes for great talk radio. And although the legislature is no longer in session, there is still a lot of work for them to do, and a lot to talk about.
Of course, that program would be expensive to produce - but Rush and Hannity are expensive also. Best benefit is there would be NO network owned commercial avails, so the local stations would have twice as many commercial positions to sell. I submit that you can pay for a good local program for less money than was paid in royalties to Rush and Hannity.
Had they replaced Rush with a well produced, local show, things might be different today.
Because both stations cover large geographic areas, the topics need to be broad, but what a year we have had in Raleigh - with new leadership in the legislature and the battle between them and the governor. That kind of split government makes for great talk radio. And although the legislature is no longer in session, there is still a lot of work for them to do, and a lot to talk about.
Of course, that program would be expensive to produce - but Rush and Hannity are expensive also. Best benefit is there would be NO network owned commercial avails, so the local stations would have twice as many commercial positions to sell. I submit that you can pay for a good local program for less money than was paid in royalties to Rush and Hannity.
- Status