List of largest radio broadcasters?

[PTBoardOp94]

Nationwide Insurance is constantly running ad campaigns - during NASCAR races on the Motor Racing Network. Dale Ernhardt Jr. serves as spokesman.

 

[TheBigA]

Sorry...don't listen to NASCAR.

 

[gr8oldies]

That would make sense since there's a Nationwide series. There are sponsored studios "from the NAPA studio" but none of them are buying stations.

 

[davideduardo]

That would make sense since there's a Nationwide series. There are sponsored studios "from the NAPA studio" but none of them are buying stations.

The underlying issue is that, when radio "began" in the 20's, owners included several groups, including newspapers, car dealers, large stores, radio manufacturers and quite a few insurance companies... all of which thought of radio as a way to promote their businesses or to enhance their image.

In Nashville, National Life and Casualty Insurance owned WLAC and National Life and Acident Insurance owned WSM (We Shield Millions) in a case of two insurance companies owning stations in a single market!

Over time, most insurance companies got out of broadcasting as the growing number of stations diminished the stature of ownership... you don't see department stores or many car dealers owning stations, either (Watch Buicks Travel... WBT).

 

[SirRoxalot]

People with money started radio stations in the '20s as a way of promoting themselves. Well, duh. In the '20s, there was no assurance that radio stations would actually make money, and that the advertising model would work. Since there was little regulation, businesses looking to extend their brand to the folks weathy enough to purchase radios made a relatively modest investment in radio.

Once the industry took off, lots of people invested in radio. When it got expensive enough that individual players couldn't afford it, broadcasting companies were born so many players could share the cost, and share the benefits.

Now that programming is designed to allow listeners to avoid commercials, or at least ignore them easily, big media is less enamored of the medium. The idea that Google - a company built on expanding web services - would invest in "old media" is laughable. They tried to grab a portion of the advertising dollars for themselves, and they tried to grab a piece of the technology side, but failed miserably because they didn't truly understand the medium or the competition that they faced.

Who's left to invest in radio? Good question. Radio is an old technology, and is not likely to expand its audience. On the other hand, radio has a massive audience, and is still enormously profitable for many companies who don't have an unmanageable debt burden. It's not sexy to invest in industries that don't have groth potential, but you can sure put money in your pocket by investing in companies that pay dividends to shareholders on a regular basis. One is a "buy low, sell high" strategy, and the other is an "invest and reap a profit" strategy.

What we've seen since the '80s is a focus on buying and selling, not operating. What we're watching now is the media conglomerates collapsing under their own weight, but maintaining control over their radio stations instead of being forced to liquidate. The "pre-packaged" Chapter 11 is the big boys jobbing the system again, screwing the small investor, and continuing to maintain control. Liquidation would lead to greater competition, and overall better programming.

 

[TheBigA]

Liquidation would lead to greater competition, and overall better programming.

ONLY if those who bought the stations were better programmers. So far, the companies that DID liquidate were not bought by better programmers. If you examine the history of radio, the motivation behind buying radio stations was never about the programming, but about making money. Right now, there are lots of options for using broadcast spectrum that make money and don't involve traditional programming. That is the problem, not the level of competition.

 

[davideduardo]

Since there was little regulation, businesses looking to extend their brand to the folks weathy enough to purchase radios made a relatively modest investment in radio.

Books like Citizens Radio Call Book, Radio Age and Radio Digest among many others showed radios you could build for a dollar or two, and manufactured radios, some below $5 or $6 dollars. Anyone who wanted a radio could afford one for the family.

In fact, one of the principal groups, and one I di not mention in the previous point focused on insurance comopanies, was the hobby group. Many early stations were put on by radio clubs, because the early equipment could be home made and broadcast schedules sometimes were just a few days a week.

Radio had a large hobby element at the beginning... and was anything but "for the wealthy."

Once the industry took off, lots of people invested in radio. When it got expensive enough that individual players couldn't afford it, broadcasting companies were born so many players could share the cost, and share the benefits.

So that johnny come lately of Westinghouse, which had a portfolio of stations by the mid twenties, was not a "broadcasting company?"

What we've seen since the '80s is a focus on buying and selling, not operating. What we're watching now is the media conglomerates collapsing under their own weight, but maintaining control over their radio stations instead of being forced to liquidate. The "pre-packaged" Chapter 11 is the big boys jobbing the system again, screwing the small investor, and continuing to maintain control. Liquidation would lead to greater competition, and overall better programming.

There have been hundreds of smaller stations going into bankruptcy. There is notning different between a mortgage default and one of these smaller bankruptcies; the income no longer supports the debt and expenses. And if you thinkk just big consolidators have debt, you are mistaken.

 

[TheBigA]

There have been hundreds of smaller stations going into bankruptcy.

Correct, and the interesting part of these is that they weren't caused by the owner "overpaying" for stations and running up too much debt. It was simply a case where the operating expenses exceeded the income. In many cases, the station isn't liquidated, but it's just turned off, with the license going back to the FCC, and no one applying for it. I've seen that about a dozen times in the last 6 months.

 

[TheBigA]

The idea that Google - a company built on expanding web services - would invest in "old media" is laughable.

I've read the "radio is old technology" comment a lot, and it's irrelevent. The gas engine and motion pictures were invented before radio. They're still very active businesses today. The problem with radio is that there are ways to do the same thing and reach large audiences for less cost and with less regulation. Which should a company spend millions of dollars for a local radio station that can just reach one town, when they can go on the internet for much less and go worldwide? So the problem isn't "radio" as an aging concept. It's very much alive and active today. The problem is using the broadcast spectrum, which has become expensive and overly regulated. If the FCC gets its way and starts regulating the internet, that may change the dynamic. Also if ISPs keep raising the cost of broadband, especially on users who stream for long periods of time, you may also see a return to broadcasting, which is more efficient.

 

[gr8oldies]

I'm in a Citadel market now and I actually hear a mix of live and syndicated programming on their stations, which are top rated. You really think it would be a good thing for 5 stations to go silent for months or years waiting for gosh knows who to buy them and supposedly have live jocks 24/7?

 

[SirRoxalot]

I'm in a Citadel market now and I actually hear a mix of live and syndicated programming on their stations, which are top rated. You really think it would be a good thing for 5 stations to go silent for months or years waiting for gosh knows who to buy them and supposedly have live jocks 24/7?

Now that's just plain silly. Liquidation wouldn't turn any stations off, or take them silent. They'd be in the hands of the reciever until they were sold. Things would likely operate just as they are now. The difference would be that the stations would ultimately not belong to Citadel. Citadel would cease to exist. And I'm still waiting for you to show me where I've ever said that ever station would have "live jocks 24/7". It's time for you to retire that tired old line which is inaccurate at best.

As far as some of the other posts are concerned, Westinghouse was NOT primarily a broadcasting company. That was a small portion of their business. They were primarily in the power production and transmission business. Radio was a small portion of their business, and the fact that radio required significant power for transmission complimented their core business. They were in a position to benefit from both the transmission and reception side.

As far as smaller stations going into bankruptcy, is it hundreds, or is it dozens? Are they going dark, or going to lenders who financed small groups trying to emulate the big boys? And how is this different from any previous era. There have always been bad signals, and bad operators. With the shifts in population, the Northeast is over-radioed, while the south and west are fighting over a relative paucity of frequencies. Besides, isn't HD radio going to resolve that issue?

The gas engine is still going strong because there hasn't been a viable, cost-effective, readily-available alternative. If electric, fuel cell, hybrid, or another technology proves to be more cost-effective and reliable, people will abandon the internal combustion engine in droves.

 

[TheBigA]

As far as smaller stations going into bankruptcy, is it hundreds, or is it dozens?

In the last 12-14 months, I'd say hundreds.

Are they going dark, or going to lenders who financed small groups trying to emulate the big boys?

Some go dark, some go to lenders, some get liquidated. Depends on the station. If you look at the small groups that went under like Mapleton, they weren't trying to emulate the "big boys."

Besides, isn't HD radio going to resolve that issue?

Huh? Who said anything about HD radio? The assignment of frequencies that you mentioned related to AM, not FM. Fixing that assignment issue isn't going to help AM. Just as HD hasn't helped AM.

 

[davideduardo]

Now that's just plain silly. Liquidation wouldn't turn any stations off, or take them silent. They'd be in the hands of the reciever until they were sold. Things would likely operate just as they are now.

While few, there have been some Chapter 7's where the liquidation found that the value of the station real estate was greater than that of the station, and the lenders might get more selling the land... but that made the station essentially valueless.

More common under Chapter 11 is to have a trustee administer the station while a reorganization is done; in some cases the original owner regains the station after reorganization once creidtors are satisfied that they might get more keeping the business running that way. Sometimes the lenders take a stake, too, in settlement of part of the debt.

The difference would be that the stations would ultimately not belong to Citadel. Citadel would cease to exist.

No, Citadel continues, but it has new shareholders. The prior ones have lost all, or most, of their equity.

As far as some of the other posts are concerned, Westinghouse was NOT primarily a broadcasting company. That was a small portion of their business.

That was not my point. You said, paraphrasing, that there were no groups until around 1930. In fact, and westinghoouse was an example, there were the beginnings of groups well before 1930.

They were primarily in the power production and transmission business. Radio was a small portion of their business, and the fact that radio required significant power for transmission complimented their core business.

In the early years of radio, transmitters were quite low power... most through the late 20's were in the 500 watt and below range. Even with inefficient equipment, most large neon signs of the era used more power. It was not until around 1941 that the US station count exceeded 1000. In the late 30's, as plenty of published sources show, there were only a few hundred stations in the US.

As far as smaller stations going into bankruptcy, is it hundreds, or is it dozens?

Many hundreds in reorganization, a few dozen liquidated. We do not hear much about reorganization since it is often a local matter and only for perhaps $100 k or so... those are the ones that have a creditors' committee and such and which can emerge intact after getting the operation in order and reaching a settlement or payment plan for the debts.

Are they going dark, or going to lenders who financed small groups trying to emulate the big boys?

None of the above. The go into reorganization where the lenders have a chance to recover paprt of the debt, at least. Lenders don't want stations... they want recovery to the fullest extent possible, and one reason to force a station into reorganization is to protect the assets.

[/quote]With the shifts in population, the Northeast is over-radioed, while the south and west are fighting over a relative paucity of frequencies.

Now that's just plain silly. Liquidation wouldn't turn any stations off, or take them silent. They'd be in the hands of the reciever until they were sold. Things would likely operate just as they are now.

While few, there have been some Chapter 7's where the liquidation found that the value of the station real estate was greater than that of the station, and the lenders might get more selling the land... but that made the station essentially valueless.

More common under Chapter 11 is to have a trustee administer the station while a reorganization is done; in some cases the original owner regains the station after reorganization once creidtors are satisfied that they might get more keeping the business running that way. Sometimes the lenders take a stake, too, in settlement of part of the debt.

The difference would be that the stations would ultimately not belong to Citadel. Citadel would cease to exist.

No, Citadel continues, but it has new shareholders. The prior ones have lost all, or most, of their equity.

As far as some of the other posts are concerned, Westinghouse was NOT primarily a broadcasting company. That was a small portion of their business.

That was not my point. You said, paraphrasing, that there were no groups until around 1930. In fact, and westinghoouse was an example, there were the beginnings of groups well before 1930.

They were primarily in the power production and transmission business. Radio was a small portion of their business, and the fact that radio required significant power for transmission complimented their core business.

In the early years of radio, transmitters were quite low power... most through the late 20's were in the 500 watt and below range. Even with inefficient equipment, most large neon signs of the era used more power. It was not until around 1941 that the US station count exceeded 1000. In the late 30's, as plenty of published sources show, there were only a few hundred stations in the US.

As far as smaller stations going into bankruptcy, is it hundreds, or is it dozens?

Many hundreds in reorganization, a few dozen liquidated. We do not hear much about reorganization since it is often a local matter and only for perhaps $100 k or so... those are the ones that have a creditors' committee and such and which can emerge intact after getting the operation in order and reaching a settlement or payment plan for the debts.

Are they going dark, or going to lenders who financed small groups trying to emulate the big boys?

None of the above. The go into reorganiz

And how is this different from any previous era. There have always been bad signals, and bad operators. With the shifts in population, the Northeast is over-radioed, while the south and west are fighting over a relative paucity of frequencies. Besides, isn't HD radio going to resolve that issue?[/quote]

Wrong, very wrong. The population density in the NE is greater than most parts of the southwest. So the centers of population get more frequencies because there is no "Providence-Worcester-Boston" clustering of cities. So the most over-radioed markets are Grand Junction, Boise, Colorado Springs, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Albuquerque, El Paso, etc. Yes, most of the 1-A clears were put in the big cities of the 30's, but that's 25 stations out of todays 14,000...

You see, the only thing of value is FM, save for a hundred or so AMs. And where you have no other city of significance for nearly 100 miles, like Phoenix, all the available channels end up there.

Providence metro has 15 FMs, while Las Vegas, with just 20% more population, has 30.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The difference would be that the stations would ultimately not belong to Citadel. Citadel would cease to exist.

No, Citadel continues, but it has new shareholders. The prior ones have lost all, or most, of their equity.

Under Chapter 7 - liquidation - Citadel would cease to exist as a radio station owner. All assets, including the radio stations, would be sold. It's possible that Citadel's Chapter 11 reorganization could proceed to Chapter 7 IF no agreement with creditors is reached. It's unlikely, but there are still possibilities that the "pre-packaged" Chapter 11 will be modified if enough creditors make enough noise.

As far as some of the other posts are concerned, Westinghouse was NOT primarily a broadcasting company. That was a small portion of their business.

That was not my point. You said, paraphrasing, that there were no groups until around 1930. In fact, and westinghoouse was an example, there were the beginnings of groups well before 1930.

You're "paraphrasing" something I never said. Please show me where I said that there were no groups before 1930? What I said was that radio was in its infancy in the 1920s, and there was no assurance that the advertising model would work.

They were primarily in the power production and transmission business. Radio was a small portion of their business, and the fact that radio required significant power for transmission complimented their core business.

In the early years of radio, transmitters were quite low power... most through the late 20's were in the 500 watt and below range. Even with inefficient equipment, most large neon signs of the era used more power. It was not until around 1941 that the US station count exceeded 1000. In the late 30's, as plenty of published sources show, there were only a few hundred stations in the US.

Tell that to WLW - 50,0000 watts of power in the '20s, and 500,000 Watts of AM power in 1934. The Radio Act of 1927 was born because largely unregulated radio stations were beating each other up in power wars on a free-range of frequencies. There were plenty of 50 watt stations run by hobbyists and schools, but there were also a significant number of 5 Kw, and even 50 Kw stations.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

With the shifts in population, the Northeast is over-radioed, while the south and west are fighting over a relative paucity of frequencies. Besides, isn't HD radio going to resolve that issue?

I'm not sure what I quoted above has a whole lot to do with whatever it is we are discussing. However, I would propose that the quote may not be an accurate listing of the facts when it comes to radio in The South.

Are you talking about a "paucity of frequencies" per square miles of geography, or per head of the population. I would have to see some numbers behind this logic before I buy in. The South appears to be up to it's ears in radio stations no matter how you define the measurement.

 

[davideduardo]

Under Chapter 7 - liquidation - Citadel would cease to exist as a radio station owner. All assets, including the radio stations, would be sold. It's possible that Citadel's Chapter 11 reorganization could proceed to Chapter 7 IF no agreement with creditors is reached. It's unlikely, but there are still possibilities that the "pre-packaged" Chapter 11 will be modified if enough creditors make enough noise.

But Citadel is in Chapter 11, and, except for your post, there has been nary a hint of a full liquidation even being discussed. You may think lenders are totally stupid, but they apparently know that they have less chance to recover anything significant if they sell in today's environment than if they trade debt for equity and get the cash flow the group produces.

The principal creditors put together the prepackaged bankruptcy, so there is no significant creditor group yelling for Chapter 7.

You're "paraphrasing" something I never said. Please show me where I said that there were no groups before 1930? What I said was that radio was in its infancy in the 1920s, and there was no assurance that the advertising model would work.

You said that groups formed later. In fact, the ad model was proven to be working well before 1930. In fact, there were radio ratings before 1930. Once the model proved viable, stations started increasing power... there were many in the 5 kw range by the late 20's, mostly due to the prospects of greater income as well as the improvements in technology

Tell that to WLW - 50,0000 watts of power in the '20s, and 500,000 Watts of AM power in 1934. The Radio Act of 1927 was born because largely unregulated radio stations were beating each other up in power wars on a free-range of frequencies. There were plenty of 50 watt stations run by hobbyists and schools, but there were also a significant number of 5 Kw, and even 50 Kw stations.

In 1926, there were no 50 kw stations, and only a handful at 5 kw. In 1929, there were 8 stations in the US over 10 kw. WLW went to 50 kw just about a year before that following the reregulation of a year prior. And WLW's 500 kw was an experimental authorization, and revoked just a few years later... one of a kind.

The radio act was more to distribute frequencies because many as originally licensed were sharetimers on a much more limited set of wavelengths first established for radio.

But, since you bring up power, even in 1934 there were leading stations like WBBL, KFOR, WJM, WJW, WTAX, KGY, WBOW, WGH, WBRE, WSJS, WSGN, KIT, KERN, KONO, KFRO, WHBQ, WMBR, etc., etc. that were 100 watts or less. Many regional channels like 1390 had only one station of 1 kw or more, and lots of 250 watt and 500 watt stations. 80% plus of stations were 500 watts or less even 5 years after the 20's had ended.

In fact, if you look at the 50, 100, 250 and 500 watters, you will recognize many of the stations and see that there were nearly no hobbyist stations in the mid 30's, and scant few by the time the 1927 reorganization took place... just look at how many of them are highly recognizable even today. Look at the 1935 Broadcasting Yearbook and confirm this!

And in 1935, there were 27 50 kw stations, a tiny percentage of the total.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Under Chapter 7 - liquidation - Citadel would cease to exist as a radio station owner. All assets, including the radio stations, would be sold. It's possible that Citadel's Chapter 11 reorganization could proceed to Chapter 7 IF no agreement with creditors is reached. It's unlikely, but there are still possibilities that the "pre-packaged" Chapter 11 will be modified if enough creditors make enough noise.

But Citadel is in Chapter 11, and, except for your post, there has been nary a hint of a full liquidation even being discussed. You may think lenders are totally stupid, but they apparently know that they have less chance to recover anything significant if they sell in today's environment than if they trade debt for equity and get the cash flow the group produces.

I never said that Citadel was in Chapter 7. What I did say - if you READ it - was that Citadel and other "big boys" were "jobbing the system again, screwing the small investor, and continuing to maintain control. Liquidation would lead to greater competition, and overall better programming." What you quoted above was in response to a bit of nonsense from Gr8oldies about stations going "silent for months or years waiting for gosh knows who to buy them".

The principal creditors put together the prepackaged bankruptcy, so there is no significant creditor group yelling for Chapter 7.

There certainly is a "creditor group" yelling for a modification of the compensation offered to unsecured stockholders. You have heard of Aurelius Capital, right?

You said that groups formed later. In fact, the ad model was proven to be working well before 1930. In fact, there were radio ratings before 1930. Once the model proved viable, stations started increasing power... there were many in the 5 kw range by the late 20's, mostly due to the prospects of greater income as well as the improvements in technology

Please quote me on this. You can't because I NEVER SAID IT. What I said was

"Once the industry took off, lots of people invested in radio. When it got expensive enough that individual players couldn't afford it, broadcasting companies were born so many players could share the cost, and share the benefits."

There is no reference to the '30s. Purely broadcasting companies really began after licenses became more valuable, which happened when the radio Act of 1927 limited licensing, and began regulating power and frequency, which drove up the value of licenses, and added layers of regulation to the licensing process. "Fred's radio store" decided at that point to get out of the broadcasting business because the of the expense and time required by the licensing process.

As to the rest, you bounce back and forth between the middle '20s and the middle '30s. That's like talking about the Internet between 1995 and 2005, and the age of computer communications as it evolved from dial-up to broadband.

 

[davideduardo]

Under Chapter 7 - liquidation - Citadel would cease to exist as a radio station owner. All assets, including the radio stations, would be sold. It's possible that Citadel's Chapter 11 reorganization could proceed to Chapter 7 IF no agreement with creditors is reached. It's unlikely, but there are still possibilities that the "pre-packaged" Chapter 11 will be modified if enough creditors make enough noise.

But Citadel is in Chapter 11, and, except for your post, there has been nary a hint of a full liquidation even being discussed. You may think lenders are totally stupid, but they apparently know that they have less chance to recover anything significant if they sell in today's environment than if they trade debt for equity and get the cash flow the group produces.

I never said that Citadel was in Chapter 7. What I did say - if you READ it - was that Citadel and other "big boys" were "jobbing the system again, screwing the small investor, and continuing to maintain control. Liquidation would lead to greater competition, and overall better programming." What you quoted above was in response to a bit of nonsense from Gr8oldies about stations going "silent for months or years waiting for gosh knows who to buy them".

Please read back what you wrote. You discussed what would happen were Citadel to liquidate.

And Gr8oldies is right... there are certainly some significant cases of small market stations that can't keep operating where the lenders do not want to keept he station on the air. They go silent, and wait for a sale or a miracle.

There certainly is a "creditor group" yelling for a modification of the compensation offered to unsecured stockholders. You have heard of Aurelius Capital, right?

That's not a creditor group. That is a group of three related investment companies that bought a bunch of stock for very little money to see if they could make something from it. They are shareholders, not creditors.

Please quote me on this. You can't because I NEVER SAID IT. What I said was
"Once the industry took off, lots of people invested in radio. When it got expensive enough that individual players couldn't afford it, broadcasting companies were born so many players could share the cost, and share the benefits."

And you placed that event post-1930, when, in fact, it was post 1925.

There is no reference to the '30s. Purely broadcasting companies really began after licenses became more valuable, which happened when the radio Act of 1927 limited licensing, and began regulating power and frequency, which drove up the value of licenses, and added layers of regulation to the licensing process. "Fred's radio store" decided at that point to get out of the broadcasting business because the of the expense and time required by the licensing process.

Fred was out of radio pre-Radio Act. And stations were licensed pre-1927, but with a model that proved to be quickly antiquated of selecting only a few wavelengths and putting lots of stations on each... in individual markets, there was considerable share-timing, and the use of few wavelengths precluded any station affording relaible rural coverage. What the Act did was spread the existing stations that were legitimate over more frequencies, eliminating about 90% of the share-timing and allowing stations on some channels to increase power to be regional voices.

As to the rest, you bounce back and forth between the middle '20s and the middle '30s. That's like talking about the Internet between 1995 and 2005, and the age of computer communications as it evolved from dial-up to broadband.

I looked at 1926, pre-Act, 1928, post act, and 1935, post WLW's 500 kw experimental operation to show that even by the mid-30's, 80-some percent of stations were 500 watts or less, and there were less than 30 50 kw staitons... in contradiction to your assertion that the 100 watters were mostly hobbyist stations. I gave you some heritage call letters that were 100 watters in 1935, and referred you to sources where you could see that the growth of more powerful stations was very slow and limited to very few stations. And, going back to your point about stations creating more demand for Westinghouse power grid products, all I can say is that a newly lit residential street would put more demands on the grid than a new local radio station in the power range that most stations had in those days.

 

[TheBigA]

That's not a creditor group. That is a group of three related investment companies that bought a bunch of stock for very little money to see if they could make something from it. They are shareholders, not creditors.

This is a part of the story some may have missed. You can still buy stock in Citadel. It is still available OTC. People are still speculating with it. However, investors must announce intentions if they buy a big block.

Aurelius has three separate groups making individual purchases, so they say none of those three have breached the figure. Seems like a technicality to me, but it's up to the judge to decide.

 

[TheBigA]

On another story, it was announced today that Jeff Smulyan is trying again to take Emmis private. This is something I've advocated ever since the radio stock crash two years ago. It makes perfect sense to take the stock off the market now, and bring it back at another time. Smulyan obviously has established a line of credit with a lender, which is amazing. When Cumulus announced that they had achieved a deal with an investment company, my first suggestion was to take the company private. He's done that with Cumulus Partners, but it would be useful to do it with the public side of Cumulus too. There is no advantage to be a publicly traded company when the stock price is greatly depressed. You can't use the stock for capitol investment or growth. So you might as well take it off the market.