Listen to CAM-D Via Digital Receiver

[vsa]

This is from Leonard Kahn's website/blog:

http://www.wrathofkahn.org/

------------------------
Not Afraid of the Dark

XTRA, XTRA!!

THEY said it would never work at night...
THEY said the bandwidth was too narrow...
THEY said you couldn't double the coverage...
THEY said it would never work with tough antennas...
THEY said it would never sound better than FM...

So who are you going to believe, the iBOCers or your own two ears?

Stereo tonight, click on audio for a lab demo using a LPB transmitter and a

Cam-D(TM) stereo receiver. (Want full fidelity; use earphones on your computer).
------------------------

You can stream (if you can handle 1500kbps) or download a WAV file (77mb) at the website link above.

Leonard Kahn and his team have been busy while we've been debating HD Radio. People have been waiting to hear CAM-D (Compatible AM Digital) with a digital receiver, and now we can.

 

[IBOCRocks]

Re: Listen to CAM-D Via Digital Lab Receiver

This is from Leonard Kahn's website/blog:

http://www.wrathofkahn.org/

------------------------
Not Afraid of the Dark

XTRA, XTRA!!

THEY said it would never work at night...
THEY said the bandwidth was too narrow...
THEY said you couldn't double the coverage...
THEY said it would never work with tough antennas...
THEY said it would never sound better than FM...

So who are you going to believe, the iBOCers or your own two ears?

Stereo tonight, click on audio for a lab demo using a LPB transmitter and a

Cam-D(TM) stereo receiver. (Want full fidelity; use earphones on your computer).
------------------------

You can stream (if you can handle 1500kbps) or download a WAV file (77mb) at the website link above.

Leonard Kahn and his team have been busy while we've been debating HD Radio. People have been waiting to hear CAM-D (Compatible AM Digital) with a digital receiver, and now we can.

Cool! I look forward to hearing it!

 

[davideduardo]

Leonard Kahn and his team have been busy while we've been debating HD Radio. People have been waiting to hear CAM-D (Compatible AM Digital) with a digital receiver, and now we can.

Who cares?

Nearly every major station in the US, over 2000 of them, have singed with iBiquity.

But Leonard keeps trying to kill radio. He killed music AM, and now he is going for the whole enchilada.

 

[vsa]

DAVID WROTE: Who cares?

Nearly every major station in the US, over 2000 of them, have singed with iBiquity.

But Leonard keeps trying to kill radio. He killed music AM, and now he is going for the whole enchilada. "

I, for one, care, David. Leonard Kahn achieves the impossible on the AM band, and all you can do is grumble. I feel sorry for you.

 

[davideduardo]

DAVID WROTE: Who cares?

Nearly every major station in the US, over 2000 of them, have singed with iBiquity.

But Leonard keeps trying to kill radio. He killed music AM, and now he is going for the whole enchilada. "

I, for one, care, David. Leonard Kahn achieves the impossible on the AM band, and all you can do is grumble. I feel sorry for you.

Yeah, in 1977, everyone thought we would have AM stereo in time to be competitive with FM. Kahn did the impossible, and stalled AM stereo long enough to kill music on AM. He seems to be out to kill the entire industry, now.

 

[vsa]

DAVID WROTE: "Yeah, in 1977, everyone thought we would have AM stereo in time to be competitive with FM. Kahn did the impossible, and stalled AM stereo long enough to kill music on AM. He seems to be out to kill the entire industry, now."

The original inventor of AM Stereo (in 1960) is not out to kill the entire radio industry. He is out to kill iNiquity's +50 kHz-wide, jamming and hashing HD-AM monstrocity!

I'm sorry, what's that hissing/air-leaking sound I hear under every HD AM station? I thought those digital sidebands 180 degrees out-of-phase were supposed to be inaudible on the almost 1 billion analog radios out there? Why has your own KTNQ been running all summer long in analog-only mode?

I've noticed how you have absolutely nothing to say about the merits, or any lack, about the subject of this thread - Compatible AM Digital, CAM-D. Instead, you have resorted to the tactics of someone who is bankrupt in having any good argument about the technology being discussed and the audio that can be downloaded. Instead you have resorted to personal attacks.

Please try and contribute something of substance here.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm sorry, what's that hissing/air-leaking sound I hear under every HD AM station? I thought those digital sidebands 180 degrees out-of-phase were supposed to be inaudible on the almost 1 billion analog radios out there? Why has your own KTNQ been running all summer long in analog-only mode?

I've noticed how you have absolutely nothing to say about the merits, or any lack, about the subject of this thread - Compatible AM Digital, CAM-D. Instead, you have resorted to the tactics of someone who is bankrupt in having any good argument about the technology being discussed and the audio that can be downloaded. Instead you have resorted to personal attacks.

Please try and contribute something of substance here.

The substance is that the train left the station. HD won, 2000 stations are on air or signed, and there is no opportunity for a different system, especially one that is AM based because manufacturers will not spend a single penny more on AM as they consider it dead.

KTNQ had a serious failure of the HD trnasmitter, and it hit us in the middle of a huge studio project for Piolin en la Mañana (30 stations), Recuerdo (multiple time zone origininations from a complex of studios for 13 stations), La Peligrosa (multiple CA markets) and an expansion of the Audio Vault server system in the TOC in Glendale. We decided that, since the major wave of receivers is not here, we could wait on the Am while we do stuff that makes us money now. With 6 engineers, building a half dozen studios, installing a satelllite uplink, and upgrading the Audio Vault plus keeping 13 transmitters on from 6 sites is quite enough.

We have HD working on 8 or 9 other AMs, and are very happy with it. The quality, plus the ruggedness of the AM signal in high noise areas make us hope that Am may have a chance at survival. We now have two HD2 signals on, and are getting two more formats ready, with thier own facilities.

CAM D may be very nice, but the AM only concept is not viable, and the idea of confusing themove to digital sucks, just like everything Kahn has done in the last 30 years. To work, there must be a single-chip, single license and single supplier solution for DIGITAL on both AM and FM. Another analog system is not needed. The first one blew, and any new ones, from a marketing point of view, blow also.

As to downloading audio, all that does is introduce new artifacts into whatever the broadcast audio may be. As nobody with an important station has any interest in the system anyway, who cares?

 

[ironbear]

Neither the KDYL aircheck nor the LPB transmitter demo sound all that great. Each sounds entirely "AM" like, with a very modest extension of the high end response. The LPB demo is noisy, and the stereo is less than robust.

That said, I was a booster of Kahn 30 years ago. Plus, I have a lot of respect for the owner of KDYL, Ralph Carlson (I once spent a delightful afternoon pouring concrete with him at an Arizona transmitter site...a totally great guy). But time has a way of slipping away.

Not that IBOC AM is a wonderful solution, either.

 

[vsa]

DAVID OPINED: "The substance is that the train left the station. HD won, 2000 stations are on air or signed, and there is no opportunity for a different system, especially one that is AM based because manufacturers will not spend a single penny more on AM as they consider it dead."

Your opinion, that is all. When you take the wrong train, it can be very difficult to admit your mistake. Fewer that 1,000 stations are doing HD, and only a small minority of those are AMs.

DAVID: "KTNQ had a serious failure of the HD trnasmitter, and it hit us in the middle of a huge studio project..."

Yeah, you told me that many weeks ago. The point is, HD is still down. It shows how UNIMPORTANT it is.

DAVID: "CAM D may be very nice, but the AM only concept is not viable...there must be a single-chip, single license and single supplier solution for DIGITAL on both AM and FM. Another analog system is not needed. The first one blew, and any new ones, from a marketing point of view, blow also."

Only true in the eyes of a cartel. Your assertion is totally false. As in HD-TV's multiple "standards".

DAVID: "As to downloading audio, all that does is introduce new artifacts into whatever the broadcast audio may be. As nobody with an important station has any interest in the system anyway, who cares?"

I'm sorry, but you completely lost me on the "downloading audio" part. I'm sure your mind is so closed that you haven't even bothered to download the audio demo and listen to it. The attitude expressed here is a prime example of why the best ideas often languish and are lost to civilization. Sheer stupidity and utter stubborness.

 

[vsa]

IRONBEAR WROTE: "Neither the KDYL aircheck nor the LPB transmitter demo sound all that great.  Each sounds entirely "AM" like, with a very modest extension of the high end response.  The LPB demo is noisy, and the stereo is less than robust."

The KDYL aircheck is analog reception. The LPB demo is digital. Do a frequency analysis and you'll see that the digital audio extends beyond 20 kHz. This is on AM in stereo. If you listen carefully, you'll notice that the "noise" you hear on occasion is on one channel only. Great stereo separation. I was wondering why it was there.

Anyway, we know that there is at least one working CAM-D receiver already out there and that the digital system works...without causing new interference to anybody.

 

[vsa]

IBOCROCKS WROTE: "Cool!  I look forward to hearing it!"

Uncharacteristic kind of silence from you so far on what you heard.

I notice how David stepped in after your last posting in this thread.

 

[autopaint-1]

When was the demo? I coudn't be here to listen.

 

[vsa]

Read the first message of this thread.

The audio demo/recording is downloadable at:

http://www.wrathofkahn.org/

 

[IBOCRocks]

IBOCROCKS WROTE: "Cool! I look forward to hearing it!"

Uncharacteristic kind of silence from you so far on what you heard.

I notice how David stepped in after your last posting in this thread.

I actually haven't had time to listen to it yet...but I plan to.

Notice I have yet to say anything good or bad about it. It's because I haven't heard it yet (subtle hint to SayNoToIBOC PLL).

 

[vsa]

That's cool. It is a huge download.

As both of us have stated before, we are pro-digital as far as radio's future goes. We only disagree on which system(s) to use.

 

[IBOCRocks]

That's cool. It is a huge download.

As both of us have stated before, we are pro-digital as far as radio's future goes. We only disagree on which system(s) to use.

I'm very impressed with the demo! I do wish they sampled some newer music, only because those older Beatles recordings aren't exactly the best source material.

It does sound VERY good, though!

And you're right - I'm not pro-IBOC, I'm pro DIGITAL!

 

[autopaint-1]

I downloaded it and listened. While I thought the earlier KDYL demos were quite good, this latest demo sounded awful. It sounded like AM stereo. The fidelity and dynamic range were pretty bad and I have a high end audio card and speakers with a subwoofer attached to my computer. The left channel has a continual buzz throughout the file and the fidelity is wanting. That's why I downloaded the file after listening to the first part in streaming mode. I kept waiting for the digital to kick in and the audio never improved. Both the stream and the download have a terrible buzz in the left channel. What a disappointment. I'm not saying thet IBOC is perfect, but if this is the best that D-Cam can do forget it. You'd think as a demo they'd want the best possible audio quality. If Kahn brings this demo into court they'll laugh him out, like the courts laughed at O'Reilly and Fox news when they brought that foolish law suit against Franken.

 

[audiophile.]

Since the buzz is only in the one channel there obviously is a (wiring?) problem of some sort. The levels are bit hot on left channel too. Hopefuly this is a temporary glitch and not representive of the technology itself.

After looking at the waveform I think I have figured out how CAM-D works. It's quite brilliant actually...

 

[autopaint-1]

"Since the buzz is only in the one channel there obviously is a (wiring?) problem of some sort."

Obviously,if they are using ballanced inputs they have a ground loop issue or the shield has come loose (I'm guessing shield) Nevertheless the fact that they put up faulty audio to demonstrate their technology after slamming the competition says an awful lot.

 

[audiophile.]

The HD-AM demos I've heard don't sound pretty compressed (digital). Not something I'd listen to. Plus interference to boot.