Local Sports Talk Radio

[tdfstamp]

Why is it sooo disappointing? Just lousy. We're a big time sports town, with four major teams, and our local sports talkers stink. I was listening to Bob Kemp today (and I'm not picking on Bob...I actually think he's pretty good, when he's not being unnecessarily surly to whoever's called in to give an opinion), and all I seem to hear is, "Listen to us next hour, when we'll be talking about...Coming up in a couple of weeks, with the start of football, we'll be doing these live remote broadcasts...Be sure to check in with my once-weekly show on blah, blah, blah." Dude, quit vamping with live promos, while you wait for calls to come in, and just talk about today's sports. Nothing makes me want to tune out faster than a host giving me 90 seconds of "on Friday, we'll be out at Right Toyota", or "next Tuesday's NCAA FB kickoff show is gonna be special", etc. Especially when I'm getting three such bits, back-to-back-to-back.

This is why we need an 18 game NFL season. 'Cuz baseball sucks, and the NBA can only cover for football's absence for so long. These talkers are dying, right now.

 

[AdMan17]

Phoenix isn't a "big time sports town, with four major teams". Sports here is a lot like the housing market...over built. Every team here- except the Sun- are everybodies 2nd favorite team. The Dbax need a world series every year or the Cubs to get people to care. If the Cards go 7-9 this year the stadium will be half empty the next year. The NHL is a fringe sport in it's biggest cities. The Coyotes are leaving town (sorry Blackhawk & Red Wing fans). The Suns are the only team worthy of the title "big time sports town".

In every market- Sports radio is a reflection of the fan base care-o-meter. There is 0 here.

Bob Kemp pays to buy time for his own show. That doesn't happen in "big time sports towns". Dan Patrick doesn't do mornings in "big time sports towns" (his show runs after hours).

Between generating their own breaking news (see Tim Floyd debacle)...and all of Gambo's "sources" ("I'm told by my sources that Whiz is going to get a contract extension"...really John? I didn't know common sense was a "source") ...Ktar just tries too hard w too many "rookies" on air types.

 

[Legend City]

Doug and Wolf are terrible, too many wacky radio guy gimmicks, and Wolf sounds like he is mentally challenged.

Gambo and Ash are OK, Kevin McCale on 1060 is a good listen, but it feels like small town news.

Nationally, I just can't get into Rome, who wants to hear loser sycophants read rehearsed "smack" or toady up to Rome, worse yet, when Rome gets a funny saying or a clip, he plays it to death, then continues to play it, and play it some more. Honestly Rome, 10 year old boys think that's funny, but not too many other people.

Cowherd is a weenie, and whoever it is that always has the cokehead/alcoholic/prostitute john Pat O'Brien on all the time, is amazingly lame.

 

[radioguy39nj]

Phoenix is like many other sun belt cities in that there as many (if not more) transplants than natives. The transplants generally come from "big time" sports cities in the Northeast and Midwest. The sports teams in those cities were mostly established before the TV era. The fan bases stretch back three generations. Those fans are there every year, through thick and thin.

The problem Phoenix and other sun belt cities have with pro sports is that there is no substitute for history and tradition. Transplants may change their address to Phoenix, but their sports loyalties remained wherever they came from. When it comes to sports, the old saying 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do' just doesn't seem to work!

As major cities go, Phoenix is relatively "young". In 1940, Phoenix was the 99th largest city in the country. Now it's the 5th largest (radio market #15). Phoenix was still a small market when the NBA Suns arrived in 1968. As the market grew, the other pro sports leagues followed.

I've checked out Sports 620 KTAR online and I think they do a good job. They're not WFAN New York, and I wouldn't expect them to be. No, I don't think Ron Wolfley is mentally challenged, he's just from Buffalo, NY! That's how they talk there! I doubt Wolfley would be welcome at WFAN!

 

[tdfstamp]

Phoenix isn't a "big time sports town, with four major teams". Sports here is a lot like the housing market...over built. Every team here- except the Sun- are everybodies 2nd favorite team. The Dbax need a world series every year or the Cubs to get people to care. If the Cards go 7-9 this year the stadium will be half empty the next year. The NHL is a fringe sport in it's biggest cities. The Coyotes are leaving town (sorry Blackhawk & Red Wing fans). The Suns are the only team worthy of the title "big time sports town".

In every market- Sports radio is a reflection of the fan base care-o-meter. There is 0 here.

Bob Kemp pays to buy time for his own show. That doesn't happen in "big time sports towns". Dan Patrick doesn't do mornings in "big time sports towns" (his show runs after hours).

Between generating their own breaking news (see Tim Floyd debacle)...and all of Gambo's "sources" ("I'm told by my sources that Whiz is going to get a contract extension"...really John? I didn't know common sense was a "source") ...Ktar just tries too hard w too many "rookies" on air types.

Boy, you really latched on to that "big time sports town" thing, didn't you? I'm saying that it's a short list of metros that can boast a team from each of the four major sports, with among them, in the past ten years, a championship, 3 division titles, 2 division titles and a conference championship, and a crappy hockey team. We've got big time sports (except hockey, which doesn't belong here anyway), just lousy fans. You're right about that.

 

[AdMan17]

my point: having a professional sports team doesn't qualify the locale as a "big time sports town". Columbus has the NHL. That doesn't make it anything but crappy Columbus. (Actually- I'm told the only thing big in columbus is the buffet line and the big and tall store).

any town- where the local college team out draws the nfl team- isn't a real sports town (look it up...asu over any period but the last 3 yrs- has outdrawn the cards...horrible)

 

[KeithE4]

my point: having a professional sports team doesn't qualify the locale as a "big time sports town". Columbus has the NHL. That doesn't make it anything but crappy Columbus. (Actually- I'm told the only thing big in columbus is the buffet line and the big and tall store).

Perhaps you should be more accurate and say that Columbus is not a pro sports town, which it absolutely is not. It's too close to Cleveland and isn't a big enough market on its own to have more than one team.

But saying "the only thing big in Columbus is the buffet line and the big and tall store" redefines the word "wrong." 100,000+ fans pile into Ohio Stadium for football and about 20,000 show up at the Jerome Schottenstein Center for men's basketball. Columbus OH is one of the biggest college sports markets in the country (and it pains me to say that, being an Indiana University fan. ;D ). To say that it is not a big-time sports town is a very incorrect statement.

any town- where the local college team out draws the nfl team- isn't a real sports town (look it up...asu over any period but the last 3 yrs- has outdrawn the cards...horrible)

Again, you are only talking about pro sports. Are you basing your assumptions on New York, where Division 1 college sports is practically a nonentity, or Chicago, where the majority of college sports fandom is for schools located in Champaign IL and South Bend IN? Remember what happens when you "assume."

College sports are just as important, if not more, than the pros in some large markets. Take, for example, NFL-less Los Angeles, where the Lakers are #1, followed by USC football and probably a tie between the Dodgers and UCLA hoops as a poor third. The Angels, Kings, Clippers, and Ducks are below those three, at least from what folks from LA that I know tell me. Dallas-Ft. Worth is another big market (#5) that is heavy on college sports support, after the Cowboys.

The cities in the south and west were late-comers to the pro sports world. With the exception of the LA Rams and SF 49ers (both on the west coast since 1946, and of course the Rams left in '95), no big-league team in any sport was started in or moved to a city south or west of St. Louis until the A's left Philly for KC in 1955. That's still relatively recent as far as pro sports go, even though we're now into the 3rd generation of fans of those teams. The established northeastern and midwestern teams go back 100 to 130 years in most cases - 5 or 6 generations of loyalty.

 

[radioguy39nj]

The cities in the south and west were late-comers to the pro sports world. With the exception of the LA Rams and SF 49ers (both on the west coast since 1946, and of course the Rams left in '95), no big-league team in any sport was started in or moved to a city south or west of St. Louis until the A's left Philly for KC in 1955. That's still relatively recent as far as pro sports go, even though we're now into the 3rd generation of fans of those teams. The established northeastern and midwestern teams go back 100 to 130 years in most cases - 5 or 6 generations of loyalty.

Exactly my point! The NBA Suns were the only pro game in Phoenix until the NFL Cardinals arrived in 1988, followed by the NHL Coyotes in '96 and the MLB D-backs in '98. That makes pro sports still virtually brand new in the Valley of the Sun.

An irony about LA: other than the MLB Angels, the only teams that were established there were the two NHL teams, the Kings and Ducks.

The only transplant to the NY metro area was the New Jersey Devils, who started as an NHL expansion franchise as the Kansas City Scouts, moved to Denver becoming the Colorado Rockies and finally to NJ.

 

[KeithE4]

Exactly my point! The NBA Suns were the only pro game in Phoenix until the NFL Cardinals arrived in 1988, followed by the NHL Coyotes in '96 and the MLB D-backs in '98. That makes pro sports still virtually brand new in the Valley of the Sun.

All Phoenix had for pro sports prior to 1968 were the minor-league Giants (baseball) and Roadrunners (hockey). ASU was king of the hill - and they were a mid-major in those days. And the Roadrunners were promoted to the WHA for a few years in the '70s, but they didn't survive that league's merger with the NHL.

An irony about LA: other than the MLB Angels, the only teams that were established there were the two NHL teams, the Kings and Ducks.

Correct. Their important teams moved there from Brooklyn, Minneapolis, Cleveland (and they went to St. Louis), and Oakland (who moved back).

The only transplant to the NY metro area was the New Jersey Devils, who started as an NHL expansion franchise as the Kansas City Scouts, moved to Denver becoming the Colorado Rockies and finally to NJ.

The Yankees are a transplant, moving from Baltimore (where they were the 2nd incarnation of the Orioles) in 1903. But they've still been in their current city for over 100 years. Nobody alive today remembers a baseball team in Baltimore other than the former St. Louis Browns.

But few teams in the east and midwest were move-ins, and those who did, did so ages ago, such as the Bears (1921, from Decatur IL) and Black Hawks (1928, from Portland ME) in Chicago. Probably the best-known move-ins back east are the Philadelphia 76ers (the former Syracuse Nationals), and the St. Louis Rams.

 

[AdMan17]

Keith, keith, keith. we were talking "big time sports" not college. there are 5 "big time sports towns" (fan support..remember the original premise keith?) in the usa. ny, chi, det, boston, philly. each has enormous pro sport fan base.

dallas is a one trick pony. LA has can't support nfl. miami is phoenix w/ humdity...no fan support. seattle- no nba/nhl. denver gets close- but 0 heritage.

again, columbus is for buffets and buckeye football.

now, a discussion as to best college sports town? i'm up for that. U Tex. not even close. please, don't mention the pac 10. 0 fan base & passion. (proof is in the rev. Big 10 get's 22 million per team. pac 10 get's 7.5 cuz nobody watches or cares about any team but usc - at least he usc from the last 8 years...the prior 19 were "Indiana football-like")

 

[radioguy39nj]

The Yankees are a transplant, moving from Baltimore (where they were the 2nd incarnation of the Orioles) in 1903. But they've still been in their current city for over 100 years. Nobody alive today remembers a baseball team in Baltimore other than the former St. Louis Browns.

But few teams in the east and midwest were move-ins, and those who did, did so ages ago, such as the Bears (1921, from Decatur IL) and Black Hawks (1928, from Portland ME) in Chicago. Probably the best-known move-ins back east are the Philadelphia 76ers (the former Syracuse Nationals), and the St. Louis Rams.

OK, I wasn't around in 1903! I'm old but not nearly that old!

Despite having teams that were established before the advent of TV, the NY area also hosts expansion teams. The established teams were the MLB Yankees, NFL Giants, NHL Rangers and NBA Knicks (est 1946).

The Mets were formed in 1962 to bring NL baseball back to NY, replacing the Dodgers and Giants. The Titans/Jets were formed in 1960 in the AFL. The Nets started in the ABA in 1967 on Long Island. The Islanders became the NY metro area's second NHL team in 1972. The Devils moved to NJ in 1982.

Of the nine teams in the NY area, it is the Yankees and Giants who are the most important of all. They have the largest fan bases. Everyone else scrambles for a piece of the pie. The Mets are little brothers to the Yankees. The Jets are brashly saying they own NY and the new stadium, but we'll see about that! The NBA should do better in NY, but the Knicks have been down for so long it doesn't really matter. The Nets are about to have their third home in metro NY, Brooklyn! The Rangers won their first Stanley Cup in 54 years in 1994 and haven't been heard from since. The Islanders won four consecutive Stanley Cups from 1980-83 and have been mostly irrelevant ever since. The Devils, despite three Stanley Cups since 1995, are a niche franchise. Three NHL franchises in the NY market doesn't make it hockey heaven!

NY may be the #1 media market, but all its sports franchises do not have equal fan bases.

 

[KeithE4]

The Yankees are a transplant, moving from Baltimore (where they were the 2nd incarnation of the Orioles) in 1903. But they've still been in their current city for over 100 years. Nobody alive today remembers a baseball team in Baltimore other than the former St. Louis Browns.

OK, I wasn't around in 1903! I'm old but not nearly that old!

I give Yankee fans grief about that (and they do get upset), but it is meaningless since it was 107 years ago.

The Jets are brashly saying they own NY and the new stadium, but we'll see about that!

How can they own New York when they (and the Giants) play in New Jersey? The only NFL team in New York is the Buffalo Bills, who don't own anything except mediocrity (on a good day). ;D

The NBA should do better in NY, but the Knicks have been down for so long it doesn't really matter.

It certainly matters to David Stern and the NBA's advertisers. All professional leagues need a successful New York franchise to attract advertisers. Unfortunately for them, they can't control what the Knicks' owner does, or what players he signs (or doesn't sign). Believe me, Stern would have loved to have LeBron in NY instead of Miami.

The Nets are about to have their third home in metro NY, Brooklyn!

And that'll make the Nets successful where it counts - in Manhattan? I don't think so. The Brooklyn Nets won't be the NBA's equivalent of the Brooklyn Dodgers. They may start winning again on occasion (probably more often than the Knicks), but who will care outside of Brooklyn?

The Rangers won their first Stanley Cup in 54 years in 1994 and haven't been heard from since. The Islanders won four consecutive Stanley Cups from 1980-83 and have been mostly irrelevant ever since. The Devils, despite three Stanley Cups since 1995, are a niche franchise. Three NHL franchises in the NY market doesn't make it hockey heaven!

Is NYC really a hockey hotbed, compared to, say, Boston or Philly?

NY may be the #1 media market, but all its sports franchises do not have equal fan bases.

That's true of most cities. One or maybe two teams are dominant, and that has nothing to do with on-field/court/ice success. In NYC, it's the Yankees and Giants (both great right now, but will draw regardless of whether they're good or lousy). In Chicago, it's the mediocre Bears and horrid Cubs. In LA, it's the Lakers (who are never completely in the toilet). In Phoenix, the Suns have always been #1 and probably always will be.

 

[radioguy39nj]

Keith E4, I'll address all of those points, erstwhile NYer that I am!

The Giants and Jets both play in New Jersey, at a location that is only 8 miles from the Lincoln Tunnel. "New York" in their names probably means more like "New York metro" or more likely "New York TV Market". When the Giants agreed to move there in the early 70s, Wellington Mara made it clear that they retain the name "New York Giants" or there would be no deal. NJ accepted the $$$ if not the prestige. The Jets' bravado comes from having not won a Super Bowl in 42 years!

Sure, the NBA would love a winner in NY, but the way the Dolans run it, I don't see it happening anytime soon. LeBron had none other than Pat Reilly telling him not to sign with the Knicks. The NBA lives off the Celtics and the Lakers.

The Nets are Brooklyn-bound, but they won't be the Nets once they get there. The owner has filed papers with the NBA to change the team's name.

I agree, NYC is not a hockey hotbed like Boston, Philly or Detroit. The Rangers have a loyal following that has filled MSG for many years.

The Yankees and Giants are the two top franchises in the NY market. The Mets once again are playing out the string. The Jets' status as "Same Old Jets" won't change until they win multiple Super Bowls.

Makes sense the Suns are #1 in Phoenix. They were the first major sports franchise in the Valley. Seniority has its privliges.