logging all IDs of AM DX's at my locale?

[pianoplayer88key]

I was thinking I'd like to try recording the legal ID of every single AM station that can be heard (however faint or interfered with) at my location. Is there a basic way you might suggest doing this?
I know how to tune a digital (and analog) tuned radio, use a Select-A-Tenna, chainlink fence, etc, and hook up and use an mp3 recorder. I was wondering how should I best time my attempts to pull in stations? I will be using a Select-A-Tenna, Panasonic RQ-SW20, and SRF-42. I may have another radio or two, but those AFAIK are the best performers by themselves on AM that I know I have. (I'd like to use one of Bruce Carter's loop antennas, but I have yet to build one. (!!!) Bruce, when you make your antennas, how sharp / flat is the selectivity curve shape on your antennas? Is there one that at least comes close to or even matches or beats a good 6-pole IF filter (as in one that has a fairly wide flat top, and steep sides (for example the -50dB bandwidth is 2x the bandwidth of the -6dB bandwidth))? Or would it be possible to put one of those filters on your antenna?) And/or does anyone know where I could get an inexpensive (preferably digitally tuned, but analog would be ok if it's got a good accurate dial) that has a narrower IF? (Does anyone know if the Superradio in narrow uses something like a 5kHz 6-pole IF and in wide uses maybe a 10kHz 6-pole IF?)

Basically, I think I'd start with all stations easily receivable (ones that can be heard without the antenna, although I'll probably be using the antenna for weaker ones to reduce static), then go to the DX catches.
When I do the recording, should I start it a few minutes before the top of the hour and end a few minutes after (or after the legal ID sounds), or how would you recommend timing each broadcast? Also for frequencies that have multiple stations co-channel, should I make two or three separate recordings in each of several different antenna orientations? Also what about sunset/sunrise path DX and critical hours? Any suggestions?

 

[TheDingo]

> I was thinking I'd like to try recording the legal ID of
> every single AM station that can be heard (however faint or
> interfered with) at my location. Is there a basic way you
> might suggest doing this?
> I know how to tune a digital (and analog) tuned radio, use a
> Select-A-Tenna, chainlink fence, etc, and hook up and use an
> mp3 recorder. I was wondering how should I best time my
> attempts to pull in stations? I will be using a
> Select-A-Tenna, Panasonic RQ-SW20, and SRF-42. I may have
> another radio or two, but those AFAIK are the best
> performers by themselves on AM that I know I have. (I'd
> like to use one of Bruce Carter's loop antennas, but I have
> yet to build one. (!!!) Bruce, when you make your antennas,
> how sharp / flat is the selectivity curve shape on your
> antennas? Is there one that at least comes close to or even
> matches or beats a good 6-pole IF filter (as in one that has
> a fairly wide flat top, and steep sides (for example the
> -50dB bandwidth is 2x the bandwidth of the -6dB bandwidth))?
> Or would it be possible to put one of those filters on your
> antenna?) And/or does anyone know where I could get an
> inexpensive (preferably digitally tuned, but analog would be
> ok if it's got a good accurate dial) that has a narrower IF?
> (Does anyone know if the Superradio in narrow uses
> something like a 5kHz 6-pole IF and in wide uses maybe a
> 10kHz 6-pole IF?)
>
> Basically, I think I'd start with all stations easily
> receivable (ones that can be heard without the antenna,
> although I'll probably be using the antenna for weaker ones
> to reduce static), then go to the DX catches.
> When I do the recording, should I start it a few minutes
> before the top of the hour and end a few minutes after (or
> after the legal ID sounds), or how would you recommend
> timing each broadcast? Also for frequencies that have
> multiple stations co-channel, should I make two or three
> separate recordings in each of several different antenna
> orientations? Also what about sunset/sunrise path DX and
> critical hours? Any suggestions?
>
I do it by connecting the line out on my stereo to the line in on my mac (mac mini with a Griffin iMic) and just let it record as i flip around and wait for an ID<P ID="signature">______________


<div align="center"><a href="http://wrcf.tk">

</P></span></P></span>
http://dingo100.tk
http://wrcf.tk</P>

 

[rbrucecarter]

> Is there a basic way you
> might suggest doing this?

Legal ID's are required of all U.S. stations in a window from five minutes before to five minutes after the hour. So the worst case scenario (if you can hear something on every frequency) is having to record 10 minutes times 117 frequencies, or 1170 minutes (I include 530 because the Turks and Caicos station is so strong all over the US. Or maybe the one in Canada in the NE US.

If you can get multiple stations on each frequency, you can null one to get another. So that would add additional time.

> Bruce, when you make your antennas,
> how sharp / flat is the selectivity curve shape on your
> antennas?

Depends on the wire. They can be very high Q. But flat tops and multiple poles are not applicable. You have a passive LC filter, which is a two pole filter. In the vicinity of the resonant frequency, the slope of the response can be very steep, but the ultimate roll-off is 20 dB per decade in the stop band. A six pole butterworth bandpass filter will have 60 dB per decade in the stop band.

My advice to you - just do it!!! Take the plunge, it will only take you a couple of hours of tinkering at the most, and if you make a huge loop you will get astonishing reception. Anything non-metallic - an old warehouse pallet - will do fine, just start winding wire - my formulas will get you close, parallel that tuning capacitor, put it near your radio and GO! The bigger it is, the more stations you will receive. With a 5 foot loop, I can do 1000 miles daytime easily on 50 kW stations. Someone that made a ten foot loop for longwave reports over 2000 miles on low power stations. But - just take the time and do it! Otherwise you will never know. Use good, low resistance wire. Remember if you get the Q too high you might start rolling off the audio. That happens to crystal radio enthusiasts who have, up to this point, never quite realized that a loop antenna is the heart of a crystal radio - make it big and theoretically you could DX with it.

 

[jras20]

I have the worsed luck on am's.
Bruce, I was wondering when you get a chance, if you could email me the best cheapest easest way of making a great am antenna? For my home stereo... Right now i'm using a stupid radioshack am antenna indoor that cant realy pick up very much, at night all I can get is WOAI. I'd like to have a good am antenna for day/nighttime patterns. [email protected] is my email.
Thanks!
J

<P ID="signature">______________
jras20</P>

 

[w9wi]

> I was thinking I'd like to try recording the legal ID of
> every single AM station that can be heard (however faint or
> interfered with) at my location. Is there a basic way you
> might suggest doing this?

Many AM DXers use a program called "Total Recorder". http://www.highcriteria.com/ It can be programmed to record on a schedule. I usually record from 30 seconds before the top of the hour to 30 seconds after. Not all stations will ID within this window*, but many will. You can also pick *which* hours you want to record. (you're not likely to catch much DX at high noon! -- though if you're just looking for every ID you can possibly get, high noon is certainly a valid time)

You will need to be sure your computer's clock is set properly. They do tend to drift quite a bit, and it's easy to be several minutes off. Windows XP has an "Internet time" function that works well.

> timing each broadcast? Also for frequencies that have
> multiple stations co-channel, should I make two or three
> separate recordings in each of several different antenna
> orientations?

Yes, what you'll hear will change dramatically with orientation.

> Also what about sunset/sunrise path DX and
> critical hours?

I would record at the top of each hour between maybe 5pm and 9am. That'll catch all the sunset/sunrise DX. (and you might be surprised how conditions change from hour to hour overnight) Then use the full-daylight hours to get your local stations.

Maybe a strategy would be to record *every* hour for 24 hours on 530KHz, then the next day, record 540, etc., etc.. It'd take a bit over 3 months to cover the entire band.


* Stations are required to ID "as close to the top of the hour as practical" - which means on the hour unless you'd have to interrupt a musical selection/inning of a baseball game/etc. to do so. There is no specific number of minutes before/after the hour you can use. Unfortunately violations of this regulation are common.

 

[pianoplayer88key]

> unless you'd have to interrupt a musical selection/inning of
> a baseball game/etc.

Usually our local baseball (Padres) station waits till the end of an inning or a pitching change to ID. However, on other stations, I've sometimes heard something like...

"The 1-1... is taken on the inside corner, called strike two. Now we'll pause for station on the Angels radio network."
"Listen to the Los Angeles Radios of Anaheim every game of the season, here on K-S-P-N. Los Angeles and Orange County's sports leader. ESPN Radio 710."
"Rory Markas (sp?) and Terry Smith here with you at Angel Stadium, where the A's have tied the game up with four runs here in the top of the 6th inning, and are threatening for more with runners on second and third. Their first baseman is waiting for the 0-2 from Bartolo. It's on the way, and it is swung on and BELTED! Deep to left field, but Vladdie is calling for it at the warning track, and he's catching it. The runners now return to second and third, and here comes Mike Sciocia (sp?), and we're going to have a pitching change here. You're listening to Angels baseball on the Angels radio network."

However, I've NEVER yet heard it interrupted like THIS (although I have yet to log that station here in So Cal....):
"The pitch... is SWUNG ON, AND HIT IN THE AIR, TO DEEP NEWSRADIO LEFT!! IT IS 880 HIGH, IT IS WCBS FAR, IT IS NEW YORK GONE!!"

 

[pianoplayer88key]

What antenna would you suggest building for getting started? (one that maybe isn't as good as the best one you have, but so I can get my feet wet and see if I'm doing it properly.)

Then, once I get a little experience and can figure out how to build one properly, which would you say is one of your better all-around performers (although different "Q" or bandwidths would produce different results as far as selectivity is concerned)? I was thinking I should build a wide band antenna and a narrow bandwidth antenna, is that a good idea?

Also, I was reading about one of your antennas (don't remember which, but I think it was the umbrella loop), and noticed you said it doesn't have very deep nulls. Do you know of an antenna that has good deep nulls? I may sometimes want to try to catch DX that's co-channel to locals that bleed strongly onto second adjacents with only the internal ferrite bar loopsticks on my radios.

Also, I've noticed your site about modifying FM tuners and putting narrower filters in. What about modifying a portable AM tuner and putting a sharper (6-element, for example, instead of the cheap filter that's probably currently in my radio(s) now) filter in those? Any particular brands of filters you might recommend, and if there's only one slot for a filter on the board, even if it takes more room would it be possible to stack filters, or would I have to do something else? (I'm considering doing this to a Panasonic Shockwave cassette walkman I have. I have about 3 working models, plus 2 more that are seemingly dead. As far as the one I do it to, the tape player can go. Or, is there any portable (preferably walkman) digitally-tuned radio that has no noticeable synthesizer noise, and already has good selectivity and sensitivity, that might benefit from a loop antenna and a few good filters?)