Los Angeles Ratings Spring 1976

[ChannelFlipper]

KABC suffered less in terms of normal audience tune-out with the Dodgers than KFI because it wasn’t interrupting music.

Yes!

Similar example: I knew at least one person who would listen to the two hours sports talk block with Tommy Hawkins in the afternoon just waiting for the regular talk to come back. She didn't care at all for sports, but never once thought about changing the station! In fairness to her, there were no other talk stations to change to, and that is what she wanted to hear, so there you go.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I’ve seen L.A. ratings back to fall of 1966. KFI was never number one, and in the late 60s and early 70s, they often weren’t even top ten.

There were a lot of problems. When NBC network radio programming wound down, KFI essentially went to block programming. MOR in the morning, on a show called “Hit The Road” with interchangeable announcers while KMPC had a name personality in Dick Whittinghill. Chuck Cecil in afternoons was playing big band and swing, which was at the time just 15-20 year old music. They gave hours a week to Dick Sinclair for Polka music.

Oh, and a one-hour farm report at 5:00 a.m. That was the lead-in to morning drive. Plus a five-minute “frost report” every evening.

In 1961, Earle C. Anthony, who founded KFI in 1922 and had been the station’s sole owner, died. His family continued to run it as they thought he’d want.

Even when they streamlined to a pure MOR around 1966, they still came off as stodgier than KMPC and KGIL.

In 1968-69, they remade the station—-contemporary MOR with personalities (Lohman and Barkley, Jerry Bishop, Jack Angel, Jay Lawrence, Dave Hull and Scott Ellsworth). It was actually hipper and funnier than KMPC. And it scared the existing KFI audience. The ratings took a big dip.

So in 1970, the station over-corrected. Back to very conservative MOR music. Dave Garroway, who had hosted the Today show on NBC in the 50s, replaced Jay Lawrence in afternoons. Chuck Cecil was brought back from weekends to evenings to play swing and big bands, replacing Dave Hull.

It helped, but not enough. So in 1972, they went back to block programming…MOR 6 am to 6 pm, Chuck and the big bands 6-9, country music with Bob Kingsley from 9-midnight and talk with Hilly Rose overnight.

Finally, Anthony’s heirs sold to Cox Broadcasting in 1973. By 1974, the station was morphing back to Adult Contemporary (which, in the 1970s, was really Top 40 minus the five or six hardest records and a little deeper oldies library). That’s what they were doing at the time of the ratings posted here.

So why were they doing so poorly? Basically, too many stations playing the same music…there wasn’t much space between KFI, KMPC and KHJ. But, as in the late 60s, the new music was a tune-out for the old audience—-and a lot of KFI and KMPC’s traditional long-time listeners, by then 50 or older, went to FM beautiful music stations like KJOI and KOST. KFI got hurt less than KMPC because Cox also owned KOST. KMPC at the time was a stand-alone AM.

It wouldn’t be until Cox hired John Rook as PD and he took KFI Top 40 in 1977 that KFI would be truly competitive. Until then, Lohman and Barkley basically carried the station. The joke at the time…and very close to the truth…was that you could turn off the transmitter 20 hours a day, just air Lohman and Barkley, and KFI’s rating wouldn’t change that much.

I remember back in those years KFI was the station for the long drives in the highs desert, being the only thing around playing Top 40 or the softer AC before that. Almost no other stations came in so clear, even the locals (which would fade out on you 20 miles down the road).

 

[michael hagerty]

Yes!

Similar example: I knew at least one person who would listen to the two hours sports talk block with Tommy Hawkins in the afternoon just waiting for the regular talk to come back. She didn't care at all for sports, but never once thought about changing the station! In fairness to her, there were no other talk stations to change to, and that is what she wanted to hear, so there you go.

True story—-when KTAR, Phoenix moved to FM, it flipped its AM to SportsTalk. There was a month of “we’re moving” promotion on their own air as well as print, outdoor and TV.

The numbers stayed strong on the AM for more than a year—-better than the FM, where they expected to see a bump.

Finally, they commissioned research. Turns out most of the audience was so used to hearing the Suns, Diamondbacks and Sun Devils games, pre-games and post-games that they assumed, when they tuned in 620 AM after the flip to sports, that there’d be a talk show sooner or later. They either didn’t realize or remember that there’d been a change.

It took tripling the promotion budget to fix the problem, after which the AM lost altitude and the FM started meeting expectations.

 

[michael hagerty]

I’ve heard KRUZ down in Rosarito.

A chunk of that has to do with the curvature of the coast. The beach in Santa Barbara faces south, not west, and signals have a straight shot across water to San Diego and Baja. Conversely, I used to listen to 91X (San Diego/Tijuana) in Santa Barbara.

 

[TomásEstefan]

I’ve heard KRUZ down in Rosarito.

Rosarito for sure, I've heard KRUZ with a portable radio on board the deck of a cruise ship well beyond the B.C. Norte and Sur state line. If you take a compass and draw a radius from SB to about that point the coverage (although it's mostly ocean) is pretty tremendous. I've heard it said elsewhere that KRUZ 103.3 has the greatest theoretical coverage of any other U.S. FM station! If you're on a cruise you'd think you could also get LA Mt Wilson stations too but they're blocked by the B.C. mountains once you get about 20 miles past San Diego. San Diego FM disappears at about that same point as well.

 

[asugeorge1]

I’ve seen L.A. ratings back to fall of 1966. KFI was never number one, and in the late 60s and early 70s, they often weren’t even top ten.

There were a lot of problems. When NBC network radio programming wound down, KFI essentially went to block programming. MOR in the morning, on a show called “Hit The Road” with interchangeable announcers while KMPC had a name personality in Dick Whittinghill. Chuck Cecil in afternoons was playing big band and swing, which was at the time just 15-20 year old music. They gave hours a week to Dick Sinclair for Polka music.

Oh, and a one-hour farm report at 5:00 a.m. That was the lead-in to morning drive. Plus a five-minute “frost report” every evening.

In 1961, Earle C. Anthony, who founded KFI in 1922 and had been the station’s sole owner, died. His family continued to run it as they thought he’d want.

Even when they streamlined to a pure MOR around 1966, they still came off as stodgier than KMPC and KGIL.

In 1968-69, they remade the station—-contemporary MOR with personalities (Lohman and Barkley, Jerry Bishop, Jack Angel, Jay Lawrence, Dave Hull and Scott Ellsworth). It was actually hipper and funnier than KMPC. And it scared the existing KFI audience. The ratings took a big dip.

So in 1970, the station over-corrected. Back to very conservative MOR music. Dave Garroway, who had hosted the Today show on NBC in the 50s, replaced Jay Lawrence in afternoons. Chuck Cecil was brought back from weekends to evenings to play swing and big bands, replacing Dave Hull.

It helped, but not enough. So in 1972, they went back to block programming…MOR 6 am to 6 pm, Chuck and the big bands 6-9, country music with Bob Kingsley from 9-midnight and talk with Hilly Rose overnight.

Finally, Anthony’s heirs sold to Cox Broadcasting in 1973. By 1974, the station was morphing back to Adult Contemporary (which, in the 1970s, was really Top 40 minus the five or six hardest records and a little deeper oldies library). That’s what they were doing at the time of the ratings posted here.

So why were they doing so poorly? Basically, too many stations playing the same music…there wasn’t much space between KFI, KMPC and KHJ. But, as in the late 60s, the new music was a tune-out for the old audience—-and a lot of KFI and KMPC’s traditional long-time listeners, by then 50 or older, went to FM beautiful music stations like KJOI and KOST. KFI got hurt less than KMPC because Cox also owned KOST. KMPC at the time was a stand-alone AM.

It wouldn’t be until Cox hired John Rook as PD and he took KFI Top 40 in 1977 that KFI would be truly competitive. Until then, Lohman and Barkley basically carried the station. The joke at the time…and very close to the truth…was that you could turn off the transmitter 20 hours a day, just air Lohman and Barkley, and KFI’s rating wouldn’t change that much.

Thanks Michael for the very detailed explanation of why KFI’s ratings lagged in the early to mid 70’s! I know things improved when John Rook arrived and tweaked the format to Top 40. I was just surprised to see it so low in 1976.

Also, I enjoyed listening to you back in the day on KTAR (back when they were still on 620 AM). I also remember you doing traffic on ABC 15. Hope you are doing well!

 

[TomásEstefan]

A chunk of that has to do with the curvature of the coast. The beach in Santa Barbara faces south, not west, and signals have a straight shot across water to San Diego and Baja. Conversely, I used to listen to 91X (San Diego/Tijuana) in Santa Barbara.

it's funny that even though KUSC's (91.5) Ventura county affliate KDSC at 91.1 has its xmitter up near Ojai with about 5 kW, during the summer if you're near the beach 91X frequently captures them out. 100 kW across the water with a frequent temp inversion does the trick!

 

[michael hagerty]

Thanks Michael for the very detailed explanation of why KFI’s ratings lagged in the early to mid 70’s! I know things improved when John Rook arrived and tweaked the format to Top 40. I was just surprised to see it so low in 1976.

Also, I enjoyed listening to you back in the day on KTAR (back when they were still on 620 AM). I also remember you doing traffic on ABC 15. Hope you are doing well!

That’s very kind of you! I’m doing great! Been back in California for 8 years and am afternoon anchor at the NPR station in Sacramento.

 

[briancraig]

1977 was a little late to be starting a new AM top 40 format in L.A.

But imagine if John Rook had turned KFI top 40 after he left WLS in 1970. KHJ would’ve likely quickly gone the way of KFWB and KRLA.

KFI could’ve been the WLS of the West!

 

[michael hagerty]

1977 was a little late to be starting a new AM top 40 format in L.A.

But imagine if John Rook had turned KFI top 40 after he left WLS in 1970. KHJ would’ve likely quickly gone the way of KFWB and KRLA.

KFI could’ve been the WLS of the West!

Both KTNQ and KFI went Top 40 about the same time, though Rook had to do KFI gradually, so as not to blow off the adults he hoped to retain from the AC format. Ultimately, KFI outlasted both KTNQ and KHJ. Remember---KIQQ split the Top 40 shares for FM and it and KKDJ both were limping along with 2 shares.

I'm not sure if KFI could have done it in 1970. KHJ was very strong and KRLA was doing decently. Maybe '72, when both KHJ and KRLA were ODing on album cuts.

In 1973, Bill Drake was rumored to be in talks with Cox to take KFI Top 40. Instead he wound up doing the deal with KIQQ. Drake with Morgan and Steele on KFI in 1973----that could have been huge.

 

[davideduardo]

1977 was a little late to be starting a new AM top 40 format in L.A.

Yes, as Storer, which spent a decade trying to upgrade KGBS, discovered. After a couple of years trying and with a great staff, the station was sold to the Liberman brothers and became a Spanish language station.

But imagine if John Rook had turned KFI top 40 after he left WLS in 1970. KHJ would’ve likely quickly gone the way of KFWB and KRLA.

Not really. At that time, the population of LA was far more centralized and there was a much lower noise level. KHJ covered what mattered just as well as KFI.

KFI could’ve been the WLS of the West!

Except that, by then int he Arbitron era, agencies did not buy coverage. They bought markets individually and the surrounding markets all had good Top 30 stations.

 

[briancraig]

By the 1970s, did the WLS massive coverage mean anything sales wise or were they just selling Chicago numbers?

As late as 1976, WLS was number 13 in cume in Memphis and number 12 in cume In Nashville. Did the fact that WLS was the rock station for much of the Midwest and the South at night mean anything $$$ wise.

The stations with overnight truckers shows like WSM, WWL and WBAP obviously sold coverage even in the 1980s, but did any of the other 50kw stations?

 

[davideduardo]

By the 1970s, did the WLS massive coverage mean anything sales wise or were they just selling Chicago numbers?

I think that the early 70's still had some clients seeing a bonus in buying WLS due to added coverage in the near surrounding areas, but nowhere else. In other words, how it did in Muskegon or Manitowoc was not of any value.

As late as 1976, WLS was number 13 in cume in Memphis and number 12 in cume In Nashville. Did the fact that WLS was the rock station for much of the Midwest and the South at night mean anything $$$ wise.

No.

Where did you see the Memphis and Nashville numbers? I remember in Birmingham in '72 when I was at WERC we could sometimes hear WLS fairly well in non-congested areas, but it was nowhere near a reliable and usable signal.

For example, even today a lot of the LA stations get big numbers in the Riverside / San Bernardino market. Only one LA operator even subscribes to that book. Advertisers see that as a bonus, but don't pay anything extra for it.

The stations with overnight truckers shows like WSM, WWL and WBAP obviously sold coverage even in the 1980s, but did any of the other 50kw stations?

Yes, ones like KWKH in LA got some of that business. But it was just a few stations out of 5000 AMs, give or take a daytimer or two.

 

[briancraig]

The Memphis and Nashville numbers were from the Duncan Spring 1976 report. They were the ADI cume, not the TSA cume.

I had no problem getting WLS in Memphis very well most nights on my Realistic transistor radio in the early 1970s. My cousins in the suburbs listened to WLS regularly as WHBQ went away at sundown. Likewise my Nashville cousins as WMAK went away at sundown.

 

[michael hagerty]

The Memphis and Nashville numbers were from the Duncan Spring 1976 report. They were the ADI cume, not the TSA cume.

I had no problem getting WLS in Memphis very well most nights on my Realistic transistor radio in the early 1970s. My cousins in the suburbs listened to WLS regularly as WHBQ went away at sundown. Likewise my Nashville cousins as WMAK went away at sundown.

I’m kind of surprised about WHBQ, Brian. I would have thought 5k at 560 would be enough to cover suburban Memphis in those days.

 

[davideduardo]

The Memphis and Nashville numbers were from the Duncan Spring 1976 report. They were the ADI cume, not the TSA cume.

Yes, because they did not "make the book" in AQH listening. They got night cume, but no daytime listening. Enough to show in the cume rankers, but not enough AQH to register in the share data.

I did not remember those cume numbers and doubt I even paid any attention to them as buyers didn't look at cume, although some of us tried with things like the Westinghouse New Math that allowed advertisers to find the optimum number of spots to buy based on the relationship of cume and share.

And even back then, most buys were in the 6 AM to 7 PM dayparts, so evenings when WLS would get listening in the peripheral counties of the metro, were not bought by most advertisers.

Those ADI numbers, ignored by everyone and particularly agencies, covered lots of area that in most markets few if any stations covered. In both Memphis and Nashville, the Top 40 stations at night did not do well outside the metro, so people listened to distant clean signals. In that case, WLS.

I had no problem getting WLS in Memphis very well most nights on my Realistic transistor radio in the early 1970s. My cousins in the suburbs listened to WLS regularly as WHBQ went away at sundown. Likewise my Nashville cousins as WMAK went away at sundown.

I was a GM for the same company that owned WMAK. And at night, even in some of the MSA, the signal was not usable. Same in Memphis when WHBQ went directional at night.

Our group also had WKGN 1340 in Knoxville. At night, you could not hear it well at the station's studios! You just brought up the reason why, in so many markets, FM took over and wiped many AMs "off the map" because they just did not cover the market's full geography.

 

[davideduardo]

I’m kind of surprised about WHBQ, Brian. I would have thought 5k at 560 would be enough to cover suburban Memphis in those days.

Not at night. It has some pretty wicked nulls. And those were in growth areas of the market.

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[michael hagerty]

Yes, as Storer, which spent a decade trying to upgrade KGBS, discovered. After a couple of years trying and with a great staff, the station was sold to the Liberman brothers and became a Spanish language station.

I’ve always thought that if Storer had stuck with Plan A, which was Country, instead of Top 40, it would have been a different story. KLAC had a five-year head start, but I think it could have been a battle, and much more profitable than TenQ.

TenQ is what KRLA should have done in 1972.

 

[davideduardo]

I’ve always thought that if Storer had stuck with Plan A, which was Country, instead of Top 40, it would have been a different story. KLAC had a five-year head start, but I think it could have been a battle, and much more profitable than TenQ.

TenQ is what KRLA should have done in 1972.

I heard a number of airchecks of TenQ and it was very well done for the time.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

I talked to the late great Big Ron O'Brien one night when he was on KFI when I was in West Central Michigan circa 1978. It was top 40 by then. I told him I mainly remembered him from WCFL. He told me about working at WCAR The Giant 1130 when it was consulted by CJ Jones. He lived in Southgate, MI at that time, about a mile from the 12 tower array of Storer's WJBK/WDEE, now Salem's WLQV 1500. He said he could barely get 1500 at Night. It was a fun talk for both of us.