Lost Episodes

[mleach]

Today I was checking out online ( Wikipedia ) the complete series list for the show Good Times. Even though the episode "The End of the Rainbow" was the last Good Times
imagine my surprise that are noless than three episodes of that show where the story continues after the Evans Family ( and you too Willlona ) had their "happy endings" and of course these shows have never seen the light of day. The "lost" episodes were...

*The Evans' Dilemma
*The Art Contest
*Cousin Raymond

In the past Jody Hamilton and I believe even her late sister Carrie both had made claims about a lost episode of their dad Joe Hamilton's Mama's Family where shortly after Naomi gave birth, both her and Vint would finally leave Raytown while Iola after the death of her parents/parent decides to move in with Bubba and Mama. The cast of Mama's Family never did say one way or the other if this episode actually exists.

The Lucy Show...a 1962 episode that had Viv getting into a fight with her boyfriend Eddie while at the same time Harry ( the next door neighbor ) gets into a fight with Lucy. Harry then decides to start dating Viv which in turns makes Lucy very jealous. Lucille Ball didn't like the script so that was that..or was it? Some Lucy books say this was never filmed while others claim the episode is out there..someplace.

Life With Lucy...there are 5 episodes of this show that never aired when ABC suddenly canned the show after the airing of a handful of episodes. Those shows do exist as Aaron Spelling some years back had donated the tapes/films to the Lucy-Desi Museum in Jamestown, NY.

Our World with Linda Ellerbee & Ray Gandolf...I am pretty sure there is a lost episode of this and I can remember watching ET at the time of this show was being done where plans were to do an episode of Our World about the summer of 1978 only to have ABC run into an issue from Bob Crane's family as well as Bob's accused murderer John Carpenter himself over comments about the murder of Bob Crane but I don't remember if ABC taped this show first and then the problems or if it never did get past the planning stage.

Of course there are others like the episode of Mr. Ed where ED finally talks to Carol, The Jan & Dean sitcom from the mid 60s just before Jan's car crash, the wedding between Don Hollinger & Ann Marie on That Girl..some say those episodes exist others say they don't. But with all this being said, I wonder how many "lost episodes" of a show is out there? The "lost" Honeymooners I know about.

 

[Corky Marlowe]

I remember hearing about an episode of "The Dick Van Dyke Show" where Rob cried, which never aired because someone at CBS had a huge problem with showing a grown man crying on TV.

 

[Ultimajock]

...I assume that both the first Toast of the Town and Super Bowl I are still AWOL, regardless of what anybody says may be in Hugh Hefner's private stash...

 

[Braves2005]

Those 3 Good Times episodes that are mentioned have been shown in syndication and are on the 6th season DVD's. A production number of these shows might lead to when they might have been shown had CBS decided to air them since Good Times went on hiatus in December 1978 and returned in April 1979 to show its final episodes but didn't air the 3 episodes.

Same goes for Rhoda as it had at least 4 (maybe more) episodes in the can before it was canceled in December 1978 and these episodes have been shown in syndication since then.

 

[Stanislav]

There's an infamous episode of Married...with Children that wasn't seen in the U.S. until over 13 years after its originally planned Fox showing. And even then, it was edited for content. The full, unedited episode was eventually released in the DVD set.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27ll_See_You_in_Court

 

[Hal Erickson]

Some more "Lost" TV episodes, though not totally lost.

"The Sorceror's Apprentice", not shown on the original network run ALFRED HITCHCOCK PRESENTS because it was deemed too gruesome, but included in the off-net syndication package released in 1965, and now in public domain.

Four "Twilight Zone" episodes seen on the network but missing from the 1965 syndication package, three removed from the syndication package because of plagiarism accusations: "Miniature", "A Short Drink from a Certain Fountain", "Sounds and Silences", and the fourth, "The Encounter", yanked because it was considered offensive to Japanese-Americans. Also, during its net run TZ showed the French short subject "Occurence at Owl Creek Bridge", which didn't make it into syndication but made the PD rounds for years.

There were a handful of "Flintstones" episodes from the 1962-63 season, telecast before the birth of Pebbles, which alluded to Fred and Wilma's childlessness. When these were rebroadcast in the summer of 1963, new introductions were animated and tacked on. As far as I know, these sequences have not been telecast since.

The "Law & Order" episode "Sunday in the Park with Jorge", based on riots that occurred during a Puerto Rico Day parade, was shown once on NBC but removed from the network's rerun rotation because of protests from Latino groups.

 

[Stanislav]

The "Law & Order" episode "Sunday in the Park with Jorge", based on riots that occurred during a Puerto Rico Day parade, was shown once on NBC but removed from the network's rerun rotation because of protests from Latino groups.

Likewise, the Seinfeld episode "The Puerto Rican Day" was never rebroadcast by NBC and was at first withheld from syndication because of similar protests.

To be precise, we're not really talking about "lost" episodes here as much as "withheld" or "suppressed" episodes. The gentleman who writes the very excellent blog Television Obscurities has laid out three basic categories which I think all classic TV geeks should adopt so we all are on the same page:

"Lost" = Broadcast, but never recorded in any form (like much early 50s live TV) -- went out into the ether, gone forever.

"Missing" = Recorded (tape, kinescope, film), but subsequently seemingly disappeared, whether through neglect, misplacement, etc. These are the cases in which "hope springs eternal" as there is always a chance, no matter how slim, that a copy exists somewhere.

"Unavailable" = Known to exist, but not made available by the owner(s) to the general public for one reason or another.

Most of the cases we're discussing would fall into the "unavailable" category; a few, perhaps, "missing." (And some of the situations involve rumored episodes that almost certainly never existed to begin with. Some of these types of things almost take on the character of urban myths; e.g., the frequent rumors of a "lost" 13th episode of Fawlty Towers claimed to have been taped but never broadcast. It's been well and thoroughly debunked, but that doesn't keep some folks from insisting that it's true because a friend of a friend of a relative claims he saw it...) <s>

It's not a perfect nomenclature, especially because the category can be entirely dependent on what we know, which may or may not jibe with the actual reality. For example, the live Honeymooners sketches were first believed to be "lost," then when we learned that they had been kinnied they would have moved into the "missing" category, when in reality all along they were sitting in Gleason's vault and merely "unavailable" (but only The Great One and a few confidants knew that!). <g>

 

[mleach]

Most of the cases we're discussing would fall into the "unavailable" category; a few, perhaps, "missing." (And some of the situations involve rumored episodes that almost certainly never existed to begin with. Some of these types of things almost take on the character of urban myths; e.g., the frequent rumors of a "lost" 13th episode of Fawlty Towers claimed to have been taped but never broadcast. It's been well and thoroughly debunked, but that doesn't keep some folks from insisting that it's true because a friend of a friend of a relative claims he saw it...) <s>

One thing to remember about these "rumors" and such of a missing/lost/unavailable show, even though sometimes it is the fans of such shows who start them...quite often, actually VERY often its the stars & networks or those who have ties to these shows who start the rumors about such things. This is the key reason why I really don't like the website "sitcomsonline". For some reason their webmaster just doesn't believe the stars have any reason to "make things up" about a show "being lost" or whatever so in his/her mind all such things must started by fans with nothing better to do. Nevermind the fact that there are so many examples where the host/star have done just that. Why would those in the biz and/or connected to the show start such rumors? Simple..The fear of being forgotten.

A very good example of this was the late Stacy Webb ( Jack Webb's daughter ) I can remember back in the mid 90's shortly before her death she had made claims about many unavailable/lost Dragnet and Emergency episodes like the one Dragnet from the late 60's that was about child molestion or the one Emergency episode from the 70's where Dr. Bracket was investigating a series of women showing up at Rampart Hosptial having VD thinking this could be the the act of one man infecting them on purpose ( both topics were very much in the news in the 90s andeven today only instead of VD its HIV/AIDS ). Now whether or not those episodes were ever filmed or just a script was written could be debated but even if neither existed I can see Stacy Webb making claims that they did exist for the simple reason she had a fear that her dad's work would be for the most part forgotten which at the of her death in 1996 and sadly for the most part it was as Nick@Nite had long stopped showing Dragnet reruns by that point and there wasn't RTV back then let alone DVDs plus at the time I believe neither Adam-12 or Emergency were being shown anywhere. If only Stacy Webb would live another 10-15 years she would have seen that her dad's work wouldn't be forgotten between TV Land, RTV, Hulu and the DVDs all of which have/had shown the work of Jack Webb. And one could easily replace the names Jack/Stacy Webb with other names from the past too. Nobody wants to be forgotten to the overall general public.

 

[bpatrick]

...I assume that both the first Toast of the Town and Super Bowl I are still AWOL, regardless of what anybody says may be in Hugh Hefner's private stash...

I'm quite sure Ed Sullivan's first show from 1948, with Dean Martin
and Jerry Lewis, is missing; Johnny Carson's first Tonight Show from
1962 is missing as well (I think there's some audio but I'm not sure
if it's of Groucho introducing Carson). Also, AFAIK, the January-November
1948 and the 1969-70 episodes of Ted Mack's Amateur Hour are not in
the Library of Congress collection.

 

[anotherguyTN]

On Carson's final Tonight Show they had stills and audio clips of his monologue from the first show.

On a lot of shows from the 50's well into the 70's the networks are to blame for a lot of what is missing. NBC supposedly destroyed most of the live or daily shows that would have been on tape or kinescope (Today, Carson's shows before he took ownership, game shows, soaps, and even sports) some time in the 70's.

Edie Adams, Ernie Kovacs' widow, had told of how ABC destroyed a lot of his old shows along with others from the 50's and 60's from ABC by dumping them into the East River or the Atlantic Ocean depending on the source. ABC also supposedly taped over episodes of the early 70's version of Password with later episodes of Family Feud because of reusing tapes to save money.

 

[mleach]

Edie Adams, Ernie Kovacs' widow, had told of how ABC destroyed a lot of his old shows along with others from the 50's and 60's from ABC by dumping them into the East River or the Atlantic Ocean depending on the source.

The "dumping into the East River" story was also used about the old Metromedia shows like Bob McAllister's Wonderama and Soupy Sales too. One story that have been repeated over the years was that the actions was due to a request on behalf of Dick Clark. When Wonderama began booking nationally known pop stars starting in 1969 featuring everyone from Abba to Michael Jackson to Dolly Parton to even Janis Jopin..this made Clark very jealous as he wanted the public to know they did American Bandstand first ( forget Porter Wagoner in the case with Dolly and that fact that Jopin never did AB at all ) so Dick Clark offered Metromedia a ton of money to dump the tapes and for some reason Soupy Sales' show too, into the East River.

The Dick Clark connection story over the years has been repeated by members of McAllister's own family and at one point..even by Soupy Sales himself even though its been awhile. However there is a new Wonderama/McAllister DVD is coming out and I believe one is coming soon for Soupy so their shows ( at least some anyway ) are out there..above water.

Another similar story has Lorne Michaels offering ABC big bucks to destroy their SNL clone "Fridays" by dumping those tapes into the river because Lorne wanted SNL to be remembered and have people "forget Fridays". Whenever people ask why Fridays isn't seen on TV today while the old SNL reruns were, this story pops up.

In reality the reason why Fridays isn't seen anywhere on TV now is due to Michael Richards and his lack of signature giving the OK to put Fridays on DVD.

 

[Stanislav]

Edie Adams, Ernie Kovacs' widow, had told of how ABC destroyed a lot of his old shows along with others from the 50's and 60's from ABC by dumping them into the East River or the Atlantic Ocean depending on the source.

Kovacs' material wasn't part of those "mass dumps." Most of his pre-1960 output was long gone by then anyway -- but some kinescopes of his 1950's NBC shows, tape of his 1959 "Silent Show" special, a handful of tapes from his game show Take a Good Look, and his videotaped 1960's ABC shows were still around. What Edie saved were the ABC half-hour specials (which many fans consider to be the apex of his creative output) and what remained of TAGL. ABC wasn't doing mass dumps (at least not into the East River, as Ernie's ABC shows were produced on the West Coast), but WAS starting to slowly and systematically erase and reuse the Kovacs tapes. When Edie got wind of this, she managed (some say with the financial help of some of Ernie's friends) to scrape together enough cash to buy the tapes, and the rights thereto, from ABC. (Which was no mean feat, given as how Kovacs' profligate spending and outstanding IRS debts left his widow on very shaky financial ground after his sudden death!)

 

[anotherguyTN]

Stanislav,
Thanks for the clarification.

 

[bpatrick]

On Carson's final Tonight Show they had stills and audio clips of his monologue from the first show.

On a lot of shows from the 50's well into the 70's the networks are to blame for a lot of what is missing. NBC supposedly destroyed most of the live or daily shows that would have been on tape or kinescope (Today, Carson's shows before he took ownership, game shows, soaps, and even sports) some time in the 70's.

Edie Adams, Ernie Kovacs' widow, had told of how ABC destroyed a lot of his old shows along with others from the 50's and 60's from ABC by dumping them into the East River or the Atlantic Ocean depending on the source. ABC also supposedly taped over episodes of the early 70's version of Password with later episodes of Family Feud because of reusing tapes to save money.

That's what I thought. I knew there was no tape of Carson's first show.

NBC systematically destroyed practically everything from the "Golden Age": Berle, Caesar, Steve Allen, live dramas, and most all its game shows; had it not been for someone calling John Guedel and asking him if he wanted a set of prints of "You Bet Your Life," we would have lost that, too.

ABC did the same thing, and I'll bet that after Carson hit it big on "The Tonight Show," someone at the network probably wished they'd saved "Who Do You Trust?". One thing on ABC I should mention that's missing are the 1971-75 episodes of "Password." The "Password All-Stars" shows can stay destroyed, but GSN viewers really wanted to see the early-'70s shows when that network was rerunning "Password."

 

[Ultimajock]

NBC systematically destroyed practically everything from the "Golden Age": Berle, Caesar, Steve Allen, live dramas, and most all its game shows; had it not been for someone calling John Guedel and asking him if he wanted a set of prints of "You Bet Your Life," we would have lost that, too.

...of late, there have been several Echo Bridge DVD sets popping up at better Wal-Marts everywhere ;-) containing dozens of these NBC kinescopes from Texaco Star Theater, The Buick Berle Show, The Milton Berle Show, Caesar's Hour, The Red Skelton Show, The Colgate Comedy Hour and a handful of specials here and there (such as the Bobby Darin & Friends 1961 special with Bob Hope). There are also two or three of the CBS Johnny Carson Shows and at least one ABC Who Do You Trust? (complete with ABC promos) in commercial circulation that weren't in that Shout! Factory DVD set Joanne Carson cobbled together a couple of years ago. It's just a matter of finding the right collectors who're willing to open up their (bootlegged?) archives ;-) ...

 

[chris12]

When Valerie Harper was fired from her show Valerie in 1987 they did a version of the episode Moving On where her charachter was absent but explained as being away visiting her parents and then they agreed to a new deal and shot an episode version with her in it and then her fifring went down and Sandy Duncan was brought in.

 

[anotherguyTN]

GSN showed one of the few surviving ABC Password episodes with Jack Klugman and his wife Brett Somers as the guests a few years back. Here is a You Tube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOW9elO_lkc&feature=related The final episode of the ABC version is also on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDWxYUtS8nI&feature=related

I'm not sure on the accuracy of this, but I've read where Match Game had a week or two of unaired episodes from being cancelled abruptly by CBS that were never seen until they were shown on GSN. I've also read where certain episodes of Match Game are missing because of the original tapes being damaged, and that some exist but aren't shown because certain stars wouldn't allow their episodes to be shown. I guess it's possible that this could happen with other game shows that had celebrity guests and are on GSN like Pyramid and Hollywood Squares as well.

Reruns of The Price is Right would be in the unavailable category as well. Hardcore fans of the show want it on GSN, but it isn't included in the package of classic Goodson-Todman game shows they are allowed to carry. There are claims that Fremantle (the current owners), Bob Barker, and/or CBS won't allow it to be reaired.

 

[cowboybud]

GSN showed one of the few surviving ABC Password episodes with Jack Klugman and his wife Brett Somers as the guests a few years back. Here is a You Tube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOW9elO_lkc&feature=related The final episode of the ABC version is also on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDWxYUtS8nI&feature=related

I'm not sure on the accuracy of this, but I've read where Match Game had a week or two of unaired episodes from being cancelled abruptly by CBS that were never seen until they were shown on GSN. I've also read where certain episodes of Match Game are missing because of the original tapes being damaged, and that some exist but aren't shown because certain stars wouldn't allow their episodes to be shown. I guess it's possible that this could happen with other game shows that had celebrity guests and are on GSN like Pyramid and Hollywood Squares as well.

Reruns of The Price is Right would be in the unavailable category as well. Hardcore fans of the show want it on GSN, but it isn't included in the package of classic Goodson-Todman game shows they are allowed to carry. There are claims that Fremantle (the current owners), Bob Barker, and/or CBS won't allow it to be reaired.

Legend has it, it's because of the episodes where they give away furs (before Barker got on his animal rights kick). Also, it should be noted that GSN, at one time or another, had the rights to three "Match Game"s; CBS' "Match Game 'xx", the syndicated "Match Game PM", and the early 80s syndicated "Match Game".

 

[stdjsb25]

For many years, I believe Paramount never made any of of the first season or all but one or two episodes of "Mannix" available in syndication. (I believe that the first season is on DVD now.)

There's also Gunsmoke...separated into three different packages: the 1955-61 1/2 hr episodes in B/W, the 1961-1966 1 hr episodes in B/W (with Burt Reynolds), and the 1966-75 1 hr color episodes. The 1 hr. B/W episodes had not been widely seen in syndication since the 1980s, and not even on cable. (TV Land ran a handful of them as part of a marathon several years ago).

 

[Toledo Eleven]

The Encore "Westerns Channel" showed the one-hour black-and-white Gunsmoke episodes un-cut and commercial-free a few years ago and I think the old CBN network showed some of them them back in the '80s. That first season of Mannix had Joseph Capanella as Mannix's boss but the only episodes in syndication were the one's where Mannix had his own agency.