Lousy theme songs

[onairb]

Coincidence...or not?

The themes to "The Jeffersons" and "Good Times" DO share one common element:

The lead singer for both themes is singer/actress Ja'net DuBois (who also happened to play the gossipy next door neighbor "Willona", on "Good Times".

It stands to reason that her particular style of singing is what makes these two themes almost incomprehensible.

Yes, I quite agree..or to quote her closing 'lyrics' for 'The Jeffersons": 'Mmmm-Hmmm. MMMM-HMMMM...MMMM-HMMMM, MMMM-HMMMM..." ;D

 

[bpatrick]

I think the point about Herbert Hoover (which might not be
clear unless you're a history buff) is that he felt that the laws
of supply and demand would end the Depression, unlike FDR,
who instituted a number of largely "make-work" programs but
didn't really see the Depression end until Pearl Harbor. Hoover
did approve the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, but it was
too little, too late. So I think it would fit Archie's character to
have a lyric that implies: let private enterprise, and not the federal
government, solve our economic problems. I majored in history and
read it that way; I certainly understand if people see no underlying
meaning in "Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again."
(But remember, there's also the lyric: "Didn't need no welfare state, everybody
pulled his weight," and there are people today who think FDR was trying to
institute a welfare state.)

 

[firepoint525]

I majored in history and
read it that way; I certainly understand if people see no underlying
meaning in "Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again."
(But remember, there's also the lyric: "Didn't need no welfare state, everybody
pulled his weight," and there are people today who think FDR was trying to
institute a welfare state.)

Were we ever given any clear indication as to Archie's age (even approximately) at any time during the show's run?

And I have posted a few youtubers of the opening theme song, but I remember one in which he sounded particularly exasperated on the "welfare state" line, but I didn't find that one. Does anyone recall that one?

 

[LKellerIII]

I majored in history and
read it that way; I certainly understand if people see no underlying
meaning in "Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again."
(But remember, there's also the lyric: "Didn't need no welfare state, everybody
pulled his weight," and there are people today who think FDR was trying to
institute a welfare state.)

Were we ever given any clear indication as to Archie's age (even approximately) at any time during the show's run?

And I have posted a few youtubers of the opening theme song, but I remember one in which he sounded particularly exasperated on the "welfare state" line, but I didn't find that one. Does anyone recall that one?

I don't recall that Archie's age was ever eluded to in the show, but he looked to be in his early or mid 50s to me. Surprisngly, Caroll O'Connor was only 47 when the show began in 71, but his prematurely gray hair, slight paunch, and generally attitude of grouchiness made him seem older.

I think the point about Herbert Hoover (which might not be
clear unless you're a history buff) is that he felt that the laws
of supply and demand would end the Depression, unlike FDR,
who instituted a number of largely "make-work" programs but
didn't really see the Depression end until Pearl Harbor. Hoover
did approve the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, but it was
too little, too late. So I think it would fit Archie's character to
have a lyric that implies: let private enterprise, and not the federal
government, solve our economic problems. I majored in history and
read it that way; I certainly understand if people see no underlying
meaning in "Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again."
(But remember, there's also the lyric: "Didn't need no welfare state, everybody
pulled his weight," and there are people today who think FDR was trying to
institute a welfare state.)

Of course, the Herbert Hoover line had historical significance. I did not major in history, but I have enough knowledge to know about the relative policies of Hoover and Roosevelt. Archie was a right-wing conservative, and would presumably (at least in the Liberal view of the show's writers and Norman Lear) dislike Roosevelt and like Hoover.

In acutality, I'm not sure this was so true. I grew up in a conservative town in the 60s and 70s. If you talked to conservatives of my parent's generation (also Archie's), many of them still admired Roosevelt as a transformative President (it didn't hurt that he was a war-time President), even though their current political views would have been considered anti-Roosevelt. I don't recall that conservative politicians of the 60s and 70s (Nixon, or even reagan) ever criticized Roosevelt's presidencey, either.

I also don't recall that anybody in those days defended Hoover's presidencey, either. Failure is failure. By way of analogy - I'm a liberal, and I admire Jimmy Carter very much. But I would not defend his Presidency, which was four years of miscalucation and missteps.

 

[onairb]

I majored in history and
read it that way; I certainly understand if people see no underlying
meaning in "Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again."
(But remember, there's also the lyric: "Didn't need no welfare state, everybody
pulled his weight," and there are people today who think FDR was trying to
institute a welfare state.)

Were we ever given any clear indication as to Archie's age (even approximately) at any time during the show's run?

And I have posted a few youtubers of the opening theme song, but I remember one in which he sounded particularly exasperated on the "welfare state" line, but I didn't find that one. Does anyone recall that one?

I don't recall that Archie's age was ever eluded to in the show, but he looked to be in his early or mid 50s to me. Surprisngly, Caroll O'Connor was only 47 when the show began in 71, but his prematurely gray hair, slight paunch, and generally attitude of grouchiness made him seem older.

Archie's age and year of birth were mentioned on the show, and one episode was about his 50th birthday. I don't recall the specific episodes, but the age given for Archie was 2 or 3 years younger than Carroll O'Connor's actual age at the time.(The Sitcoms Online web site gives Archie's year of birth as 1926, but I don't know their source.)

 

[firepoint525]

I don't recall that Archie's age was ever eluded to in the show, but he looked to be in his early or mid 50s to me. Surprisngly, Caroll O'Connor was only 47 when the show began in 71, but his prematurely gray hair, slight paunch, and generally attitude of grouchiness made him seem older.

Archie's age and year of birth were mentioned on the show, and one episode was about his 50th birthday. I don't recall the specific episodes, but the age given for Archie was 2 or 3 years younger than Carroll O'Connor's actual age at the time.(The Sitcoms Online web site gives Archie's year of birth as 1926, but I don't know their source.)

For the reasons that Keller gave, I would have thought Archie Bunker to be at least a little bit older than O'Connor in real life. I am older now than O'Connor was when the show started, but I still have my hair, and the vast majority of it is still brown. Only the occasional gray hair here or there.

 

[vjm]

Archie being around 50 at the show's start is certainly plausible.

Remember 45-50 year olds at that time lived through the Depression and WWII, so they would have lived hard lives in their younger years.

They had more tread on their tires than those of that age would have these days, and it showed.

 

[BD Sullivan]

I majored in history and
read it that way; I certainly understand if people see no underlying
meaning in "Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again."
(But remember, there's also the lyric: "Didn't need no welfare state, everybody
pulled his weight," and there are people today who think FDR was trying to
institute a welfare state.)

Were we ever given any clear indication as to Archie's age (even approximately) at any time during the show's run?

And I have posted a few youtubers of the opening theme song, but I remember one in which he sounded particularly exasperated on the "welfare state" line, but I didn't find that one. Does anyone recall that one?

It was the last one they did--in the final year after Rob Reiner and Sally Struthers left:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F9vRVyV914

 

[LKellerIII]

I am older now than O'Connor was when the show started, but I still have my hair, and the vast majority of it is still brown. Only the occasional gray hair here or there.

Nobody likes a braggart, Firepoint. ;D. I had WAY less hair than Archie/Carroll by age 40...though what was left didn't turn gray until about 55...

Getting back to "Lousy Theme Songs" - how about the theme for American Horror Story. It's cacaphonous, non-musical, weird, and unsettling. Given the content of the show, I suspect that was the effect the producers were going for, so I guess it "works."

 

[firepoint525]

I am older now than O'Connor was when the show started, but I still have my hair, and the vast majority of it is still brown. Only the occasional gray hair here or there.

Nobody likes a braggart, Firepoint. ;D. I had WAY less hair than Archie/Carroll by age 40...though what was left didn't turn gray until about 55...

I can't really claim credit for that. That is all hereditary. About the only thing that I did for myself was NOT smoke. And I have exercised, but not as much as I should.

My dad is 82 and still has all his hair. Although he lost a lot of it when he went through chemo for non-Hodgkins lymphoma 10 years ago!

 

[firepoint525]

I majored in history and
read it that way; I certainly understand if people see no underlying
meaning in "Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again."
(But remember, there's also the lyric: "Didn't need no welfare state, everybody
pulled his weight," and there are people today who think FDR was trying to
institute a welfare state.)

Were we ever given any clear indication as to Archie's age (even approximately) at any time during the show's run?
And I have posted a few youtubers of the opening theme song, but I remember one in which he sounded particularly exasperated on the "welfare state" line, but I didn't find that one. Does anyone recall that one?

It was the last one they did--in the final year after Rob Reiner and Sally Struthers left:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F9vRVyV914

Thanks. That one is probably my favorite of all of them. But by then, Jean Stapleton was really emphasizing that her "LaSalle ran great"! ;D

 

[firepoint525]

Interesting comment on youtube about Sally Struthers' show Gloria, to which I posted the theme music earlier in this thread:

The producers, likely at Struthers' insistence, chose to sever all ties and references to All In The Family in future episodes. Struthers was attempting to assert her own identity as the star of her own show, but she could not get over the fact that the show bandwagoned off of AITF. I think that was a key factor in the show's early demise.

If this is true, it would have been a case of trying to "have one's cake and eat it, too." If Struthers wanted to step away from the role of Gloria, then she should have insisted on playing a completely new character with a different name.

 

[BD Sullivan]

Interesting comment on youtube about Sally Struthers' show Gloria, to which I posted the theme music earlier in this thread:

The producers, likely at Struthers' insistence, chose to sever all ties and references to All In The Family in future episodes. Struthers was attempting to assert her own identity as the star of her own show, but she could not get over the fact that the show bandwagoned off of AITF. I think that was a key factor in the show's early demise.

If this is true, it would have been a case of trying to "have one's cake and eat it, too." If Struthers wanted to step away from the role of Gloria, then she should have insisted on playing a completely new character with a different name.

If I'm not mistaken, she and Carroll O'Connor had a falling out about it after she rejected his request to do a crossover episode(s). They later patched things up.

 

[onairb]

Struthers had already established the premise for 'Gloria' when she appeared on "Archie's Place" in a two-part backdoor pilot in early 1982(returning home and telling Archie that Meathead had left her). Archie was seen in the opening scene of the first episode of 'Gloria'. I suppose they wanted to do another Christmas(or Thanksgiving) episode later that season.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

Not necessarily a "lousy" theme song, just an unusual choice for one. Channel 2 news here in Nashville (WNGE at the time). This was in 1979, well before I ever moved here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZBDwp7-7YE

Across town, WTVF (having changed from WLAC-TV) used Hagood Hardy's "The Homecoming" over the closing credits. Not a lousy song by any means but interesting that two stations in the same market used pop instrumentals of that era to end their newcasts.

http://nashvilletv.org/wtvfnewsopens.htm