weok, wbnr, wghq and wgny all run low power at night. on a recent business trip i heard wcxz in harrogate, tn. (on groundwave). wcxz runs 7 watts at night on 740 khz. with that amount of power on am, i am surprised the signal gets through the paint on the tower! does wcxz hold the title of lowest ouput power for a commercial station at night? travel service stations do not count for this question.
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low, low power am at night
- Thread starter HudsonValley1967
- Start date
In Albany, WUAM is I believe 70 watts at night, WSDE is 20 watts at night, WABY is 570 watts at night (can still get WABY here at night)...
WSBS 860 in Great Barrington, Mass. uses 3.6 or 3.8 watts at night, after initially cutting back to " critical hours" power, from their licensed daytime power. I think I heard them barely to the NY Border from Great Barrington one night.
I wish I had a whole watt. What I could do with one watt in my densely populated neighborhood......
I'd be selling spots immediately. There's lots and lots of small businesses within walking distance.
And..
I've been (for free) sponsoring Purina for "Dog Food Time" at 6 O'Clock for dang near 7 years,
along with many current brand names that must certainly gain from my inclusion of their spots.
Power is a relative matter.
I'd be selling spots immediately. There's lots and lots of small businesses within walking distance.
And..
I've been (for free) sponsoring Purina for "Dog Food Time" at 6 O'Clock for dang near 7 years,
along with many current brand names that must certainly gain from my inclusion of their spots.
Power is a relative matter.
N
necrat123
Guest
Interlocutor said:
They use 3.9 watts night. In Great Barrington at nigh time, 1 mile from the tower, it is possible to hear the Canadian AM on 860 .
WSQR, Sycamore, IL runs one watt ND at night on 1180. IME, it's listenable for about 2 or 3 miles from the stick before WHAM takes over. The area has pretty good ground conductivity, so this may not be what can be taken as a general rule of thumb.
I'm about 25 miles from the WSQR tower, and I've never heard them at night since they moved from 1560 a few years back. (However, the daytime signal at 900 watts was a definite upgrade from what they had on 1560).
I'm about 25 miles from the WSQR tower, and I've never heard them at night since they moved from 1560 a few years back. (However, the daytime signal at 900 watts was a definite upgrade from what they had on 1560).
How many of these stations have cross band translators? That watt or 2 is all they need to qualify for one.
THE_KNICKMAN said:
I can only speak for WSQR, which (as far as I know) doesn't have a translator. The one watt pretty much covers their COL....which is a small town. WSQR is owned by a local group broadcaster with an FM operation that covers the area.
But interestingly enough, WSQR's chief local AM competitor in the next town over (7 miles away), does have a 225-watt translator to augment their 24-watt nighttime signal on 1360. The translator covers both area communities....which are roughly 60 miles west of Chicago.
THE_KNICKMAN said:
There is no requirement for any night service at all on a class D station in order to use a translator. There are plenty of straight daytimers (WCJW 1140 Warsaw NY, out here near me, for instance) that legally run programming 24/7 on FM translators even after the AM has gone to bed for the night.
wow thanks for all the info. when you operate at such low output, do you use a seperate transmitter or just attenuate the driver?
this is not the first time around for low, low power. my dad said he would listen to a 5 watter from kingston, ny in the 1920's. i think he was hearing wdbz. wdbz was operated by the ulster county council of the boy scouts.
this is not the first time around for low, low power. my dad said he would listen to a 5 watter from kingston, ny in the 1920's. i think he was hearing wdbz. wdbz was operated by the ulster county council of the boy scouts.
wow--I thought WHVW was low at 57 watts...your microwave oven has more.......
oldies4ever ;D
oldies4ever ;D
Ever since the FCC started allowing day timer stations stay on all night at very low power I have wondered why bother. I understand when small markets had just a few AM stations, only one of which was allowed to stay on after sunset, often at reduced power there was no big competitive disadvantage. In Poughkeepsie 1390 WEOK and 950 WHVW had to shut down at sunset, while 1450 WKIP stayed on at reduced power 1KW day 250 watts night. With the explosion of FM stations here in the late eighties and into the nineties, shutting down at sunset they were at an even bigger disadvantage, than being on AM had already become. This is especially true during the winter when they miss the PM drive, signing off at 4:30. However, with WHVW at 57 watts and WEOK directional 106 watts 10 miles is a stretch. In fact, WEOK with a deep east west null barely makes it to Pleasant Valley just 5 miles to the east. The service area is so small what is the point. How many people can be listening? Even WKIP, which can now stay at full 1KW of power and non -directional at night, gains little from when they were 250 watts. I remember the big deal when they said 1450 feeling much more powerful, there was no discernable difference in my reception in Hyde Park and a few miles further north they became lost in the co-channel chatter.. The problem is many other stations on these frequencies also remain on at night canceling each other out by increasing the chatter. I think AM sounded better before the FCC threw these day-timers a lifeline allowing them post sunset authority. I didn’t realize some stations were limited to single digits as low as one watt, just a little more than twice that of a part 15 transmitter. Once granted this authority are these stations required to stay on all night? It seems pointless and makes dxing difficult..
HudsonValley1967 said:
In my locale, WMCR-1600 Oneida uses 2-transmitters. 1kW for daytime and a small unit for 20watt night power. The 20 watter is on 24/7 and "broadcasts" to a dummy load when not connected to the stick. Another advantage of two separate xmtrs is the 20 watter functions as a backup if the 1kW xmtr goes down.
MHVRadiofan said:
In many instances, I've often wondered the same thing! But I've traveled in my work for a number of years...including many nights on the road in small towns. In many of these little towns, there's what used to be a local daytimer that now also runs "flea power" at night. A lot of these are very well-established in their COL's. So what you wind up with is a situation where the low power....even 50 watts or less...is more than enough to put a good signal into the local community and create a true win-win.
odd thing about radio, image and revenue driven. i am sure there are markets where the night dj cannot receive the transmitter using his off air monitor.
i think there was a brief time when wgny-am and wkip-am were owned by the same company. the fcc said both stations had over lapping
coverage areas. back then owners could not own two ams in the same market. it was a quaint time. the sherman anti-trust act was enforced. to solve the problem wkip-am put up another tower and went directional. that was the only time i knew of a class iv local station that went directional.
i think there was a brief time when wgny-am and wkip-am were owned by the same company. the fcc said both stations had over lapping
coverage areas. back then owners could not own two ams in the same market. it was a quaint time. the sherman anti-trust act was enforced. to solve the problem wkip-am put up another tower and went directional. that was the only time i knew of a class iv local station that went directional.
Closer to home for the Hudson Valley folks, WTBQ in Warwick is in that category as well. AM 1110 powers off (you can acutally hear WBT through the monitor at the trasmitter site when this happens) and 93.5 FM takes you right through to the Frank Truatt Morning Show.
WTBQ is an interesting little station. They don't reach my home in Hyde Park, but according to their web site, they have a news- talk format, some of it local ( what a concept!) during the day, but at night when the AM side is off the air, they play music. I assume it is automated, but why the switch in format? The real interesting part is a claimed 6,000-song library. They play "every popular song from the 50's to the present".WTBQ on FM translator has 'we play anything we want Jack FM ' outdone by a lot. How does that work? Is there any time period that gets preference over others? Is there a logical order to it like fifties music tonight sixties tomorrow or is it just random .What is the audience reaction?Towerclimber31 said:
Disclaimer- I don't work there, and I am not friends with anyone who does. I listen on line here and there.
Interesting station to say the least. They have some really decent people who work there and some decent locally produced shows. The seem to do programs with the local high school which will certainly help cultivate future radio buffs. Some shows are very good, some a little...ehh. But it is what local radio is meant to be and 5 stars for that.
They run some type of automation at night for the music. Its really a cool mix for a 45 year old like me. Its a lot of songs you don't hear on the radio so much that you wish you did once in a while- Poco, Heart of the Night, Lulu, I Could Never Miss You More than I do, Orpheus, I Can't find the time to tell you come to mind- They aren't played out if you know what I mean. I listened in the office two weeks straight 7-11 and don't think I heard more than a few songs repeat... its really a nice change. Like everyone else, listening habits take us in all directions, but its a good time, and they have a cool top of the hour ID.
Interesting station to say the least. They have some really decent people who work there and some decent locally produced shows. The seem to do programs with the local high school which will certainly help cultivate future radio buffs. Some shows are very good, some a little...ehh. But it is what local radio is meant to be and 5 stars for that.
They run some type of automation at night for the music. Its really a cool mix for a 45 year old like me. Its a lot of songs you don't hear on the radio so much that you wish you did once in a while- Poco, Heart of the Night, Lulu, I Could Never Miss You More than I do, Orpheus, I Can't find the time to tell you come to mind- They aren't played out if you know what I mean. I listened in the office two weeks straight 7-11 and don't think I heard more than a few songs repeat... its really a nice change. Like everyone else, listening habits take us in all directions, but its a good time, and they have a cool top of the hour ID.
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