Low Power Translator at 92.9

[KentMcN]

I found in a FCC Report that KGHO-LP is trying has a CP to put a translator Licensed out of Des Moines, and move their antenna further south in Sea-Tac. But of course,KISM is trying to stop it again.I would like to see if people in this area would like to file a complaint against KISM, for trying to stop them from doing this. KISM's coverage area is not in south King County,and the new translator would barely make it past south Seattle,and would cover South King County and North Pierce County. KGHO-LP has a translator that serves Olympia and South Pierce County on 103.3. KGHO is a good station that plays mix of oldies and classic rock and would love to have it my area too.

 

[bossbill]

KGHO-LP uses loopholes and deceit to operate translators to dramatically expand the coverage of what is supposed to be a low-power community radio service. The LPFM service was not intended to allow translators; the commission just looked the other way as LPFM licensees started doing this. Now, with a 100 watt main signal, LPFMs such as KGHO-LP are feeding multiple translators of 250 watts each.

KGHO-LP alleges that they operate as an "educational institution", and as such are permitted to use translators to extend their coverage. In fact, it is an automated jukebox with no local programming, no educational programming, and no staff.

The various and sundry translators which KGHO-LP operates are classified as secondary service. KISM, on the other hand, as a commercial FM licensee, is a primary service, subject to a myriad of FCC fees, taxes, and royalties.

I suggest KISM should be the one complaining...

 

[Bongwater]

KGHO-LP uses loopholes and deceit to operate translators to dramatically expand the coverage of what is supposed to be a low-power community radio service. The LPFM service was not intended to allow translators; the commission just looked the other way as LPFM licensees started doing this. Now, with a 100 watt main signal, LPFMs such as KGHO-LP are feeding multiple translators of 250 watts each.

KGHO-LP alleges that they operate as an "educational institution", and as such are permitted to use translators to extend their coverage. In fact, it is an automated jukebox with no local programming, no educational programming, and no staff.

The various and sundry translators which KGHO-LP operates are classified as secondary service. KISM, on the other hand, as a commercial FM licensee, is a primary service, subject to a myriad of FCC fees, taxes, and royalties.

I suggest KISM should be the one complaining...

I agree. If anyone can use a translator on 92.9 down there, it's KISM.

101.1 is pretty vacant, although CFMI and KUFO drift in occasionally.....

 

[FMSteve]

That's pretty interesting. KISM has absolutely no leg to stand on at this moment in the application/construction process. The engineering charts demonstrate that the translator won't, in theory, interfere with KISM's protected contour. This translator will need to get fired up and demonstrate no interference caused to KISM in the real world before that translator station can be licensed. For KISM to be complaining right now is premature. The rules stipulate that only actual interference may be considered in a complaint. And you cannot have actual interference without building out the station. And the station hasn't been built out.

I would strongly urge KISM to back off at this juncture. Downtown Seattle is not in your 60 dbu protected contour.

 

[JakeMott]

I listen to KISM in Renton. I would hate for another LP to interfere to my listening. Just like some LP signals interfere to listening to Canadian stations. I used to be able to receive several Canadian stations. Now just one, CIOC 98.5.
The rest don't come in and either do the LP stations. So I have fewer listening options now on my radio. Thanks FCC.

 

[bossbill]

We're not talking about an LPFM. We're talking about a translator. Translators have no protection, so put this to rest.

 

[Randy Roadz]

Again... THANK YOU Boss Bill...

Roadz

 

[crainbebo]

I've gotten CIOC 98.5, CKKQ 100.3 and Bellingham in Auburn.

I don't need ANOTHER translator to interfere with the E-skip in the summer...it's very rare to have anything on openings come over the CSN on 89.1.

-crainbebo

 

[Bongwater]

I've gotten CIOC 98.5, CKKQ 100.3 and Bellingham in Auburn.

I don't need ANOTHER translator to interfere with the E-skip in the summer...it's very rare to have anything on openings come over the CSN on 89.1.

-crainbebo

It's a sad-ass fact of life dude. Translators happen. These Jesuscasters as far as I'm concerned have no place other than Twin Falls, ID. Even though I live in Whatcom County, yet commute through and do business in Skagit County, in some ways, I'm pretty irked at the thought of KPLU having a rebroadcaster at 88.9 (KPYU) in Sedro-Woolley.

Don't get me wrong, I love KPLU and donate regularly (which has gone up last week since the addition of Steve Slaton), but I also like the French-Canadian jazz on CBUX-FM2 from Victoria on 88.9. Whenever KPLU was airing talk, I could always zap it to 88.9 and hear more jazz. I speak very little French, but the music speaks volumes more than the announcer ever will. They have some amazingly good selections.

But KPLU has a very problematic signal. Their 88.5 main signal (like anything off Tiger Mountain) is especially prone to local interference in that area. The 91.1 translator gets outblasted by a Victoria rock station in places on 91.3. But taking over 88.9, as loud and clear as CBUX-FM2 comes in Skagit County is going to be an Exederin headache on the hills where CBUX-FM2 blasts in LOUDLY, even causing interference on cheap radios on other channels....

 

[semoochie]

"We're not talking about an LPFM. We're talking about a translator. Translators have no protection, so put this to rest." I didn't think LPFMs had any protection either. Someone once posted that a translator didn't have to interfere with a station's protected contour, for it to be considered interference. They just needed a complaint to be filed.

 

[FMSteve]

Hey, let's go back to school here and review the current FCC rule which applies to interference to an FM broadcast station. It's CFR 47 74.1204 (code of federal regulations) and it is found here:

http://www.hallikainen.com/FccRules/2010/74/1204/

(3) All Other Classes of FM Stations (Protected Contour: 1 mV/m)Frequency separation Interference contour of proposed translator
Protected contour of any other station
Co-channel 0.1 mV/m (40 dBu) 1 mV/m (60 dBu)
200 kHz 0.5 mV/m (54 dBu) 1 mV/m (60 dBu)
400 kHz/ 600 kHz 100 mV/m (100 dBu) 1 mV/m (60 dBu)

--You see here that the Commission refers to the affected contour as the protected 1 mv/m contour. This is the 60 dbu contour (1 mv/m), they are one and the same. In a co-channel situation, the translators' 40 dbu cannot cross over into the KISM 60 dbu. It does not and they are in compliance.

And 74.1203: http://www.hallikainen.com/FccRules/2010/74/1203/

74.1203 Interference.

(a) An authorized FM translator or booster station will not be
permitted to continue to operate if it causes any actual interference
to:

(1) The transmission of any authorized broadcast station; or

So there you go. That 92.9 translator in Des Moines, WA is fully compliant with the rules at this point in their application. If, when they fire it up KISM experiences actual interference to their protected contour, then KISM must allow the offending translator to remedy the situation by various means within a reasonable time period. Only then, after all efforts are made can KISM call for a cease and desist order.

Schools out.

 

[semoochie]

That's what it looks like alright and I thought too until I was called on the carpet about it. It must have been wishful thinking on someone's part. Thanks.

 

[crainbebo]

I've gotten CIOC 98.5, CKKQ 100.3 and Bellingham in Auburn.

I don't need ANOTHER translator to interfere with the E-skip in the summer...it's very rare to have anything on openings come over the CSN on 89.1.

-crainbebo

It's a sad-ass fact of life dude. Translators happen. These Jesuscasters as far as I'm concerned have no place other than Twin Falls, ID. Even though I live in Whatcom County, yet commute through and do business in Skagit County, in some ways, I'm pretty irked at the thought of KPLU having a rebroadcaster at 88.9 (KPYU) in Sedro-Woolley.

Don't get me wrong, I love KPLU and donate regularly (which has gone up last week since the addition of Steve Slaton), but I also like the French-Canadian jazz on CBUX-FM2 from Victoria on 88.9. Whenever KPLU was airing talk, I could always zap it to 88.9 and hear more jazz. I speak very little French, but the music speaks volumes more than the announcer ever will. They have some amazingly good selections.

But KPLU has a very problematic signal. Their 88.5 main signal (like anything off Tiger Mountain) is especially prone to local interference in that area. The 91.1 translator gets outblasted by a Victoria rock station in places on 91.3. But taking over 88.9, as loud and clear as CBUX-FM2 comes in Skagit County is going to be an Exederin headache on the hills where CBUX-FM2 blasts in LOUDLY, even causing interference on cheap radios on other channels....

AMEN, Bongwater! There's already a translator of KPLU on 91.1, why do we need a rebroadcaster in Sedro-Wooley? It's only what, 10 miles from Mt. Vernon's 91.1? I can hear it here on high hills for god's sake...AND CLEARLY IN EVERETT.

Yeah, CSN needs to go back to Twin Falls. Religious preaching is good, but not every 3 channels on the public FM dial.

-crainbebo

 

[Bongwater]

I've gotten CIOC 98.5, CKKQ 100.3 and Bellingham in Auburn.

I don't need ANOTHER translator to interfere with the E-skip in the summer...it's very rare to have anything on openings come over the CSN on 89.1.

-crainbebo

It's a sad-ass fact of life dude. Translators happen. These Jesuscasters as far as I'm concerned have no place other than Twin Falls, ID. Even though I live in Whatcom County, yet commute through and do business in Skagit County, in some ways, I'm pretty irked at the thought of KPLU having a rebroadcaster at 88.9 (KPYU) in Sedro-Woolley.

Don't get me wrong, I love KPLU and donate regularly (which has gone up last week since the addition of Steve Slaton), but I also like the French-Canadian jazz on CBUX-FM2 from Victoria on 88.9. Whenever KPLU was airing talk, I could always zap it to 88.9 and hear more jazz. I speak very little French, but the music speaks volumes more than the announcer ever will. They have some amazingly good selections.

But KPLU has a very problematic signal. Their 88.5 main signal (like anything off Tiger Mountain) is especially prone to local interference in that area. The 91.1 translator gets outblasted by a Victoria rock station in places on 91.3. But taking over 88.9, as loud and clear as CBUX-FM2 comes in Skagit County is going to be an Exederin headache on the hills where CBUX-FM2 blasts in LOUDLY, even causing interference on cheap radios on other channels....

AMEN, Bongwater! There's already a translator of KPLU on 91.1, why do we need a rebroadcaster in Sedro-Wooley? It's only what, 10 miles from Mt. Vernon's 91.1? I can hear it here on high hills for god's sake...AND CLEARLY IN EVERETT.

Yeah, CSN needs to go back to Twin Falls. Religious preaching is good, but not every 3 channels on the public FM dial.

-crainbebo

I think the idea is if KPYU goes on, the Mount Vernon 91.1 translator goes off.....

 

[SeattleObserver]

I think the idea is if KPYU goes on, the Mount Vernon 91.1 translator goes off.....

I thought 91.1 was K-V-I-X Port Angeles?

 

[bossbill]

School back in session. Read the rules. Translator and booster interference complaints must be addressed, regardless of whether is inside the contour or not.

 

[Bongwater]

I think the idea is if KPYU goes on, the Mount Vernon 91.1 translator goes off.....

I thought 91.1 was K-V-I-X Port Angeles?

KVIX is on 89.3. It can be heard in Anacortes and in Bellingham when KUGS signs off.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

Does any one have a link to the proposed contour for KPLY? I'd like to see where it's proposed to go. And what is it's projected start up date?

Personally, I dial regularly from my kitchen in Shoreline between KPLU on 88.5 and CBUV on 88.9, which puts in a pretty strong signal into the North Seattle "convergence zone," since it's a full power FM (high stick, medium power, from what I understand) only about 50 miles away in Victoria (rather than the slightly further Salt Spring Island xmtr site for CBC Radio 2 on 92.1, which is also stronger than most FMs up here).
Before the Mercer Island station opened up on 88.9, I could hear Espace Musique on 88.9 on a car radio into downtown Seattle. Now, there's a lot of back and forth the closer you get to Aurora Avenue all the way to Lynnwood. And KPLU's 91.1 translator also comes in pretty strong on a car radio down the I-5 corridor, well south of Everett. For a translator, it's got a solid signal.

I guess 'PLU wants the protections that come with a set of call letters. But perhaps the power for KPLY is not much different from the 91.1 translator? Otherwise, I'm afraid that my latest favorite station will be ground into the increasingly noisy ether thats starting to make FM as fun to listen to as AM signals now.

Still, I am amazed that protections for high power stations just across the border are no longer enforced. Are nearby Canadian stations now to be treated like they're Cuban radio, ready to be jammed out? So much for the rhetoric of "free trade." Are Americans no longer to be allowed to pick up signals from their neighbors in Vancouver, Victoria, or in Windsor, Toronto, etc.. on the American side of the big bad Border. Interference from the Mercer Island station, and the new 88.9 in Centralia that rebroadcasts one of the Washington State Univ streams, is already making it tricky to hear Victoria when atmospheric conditions fuzz up 88.9. Just adding yet another one to the mix seems a little rough.

Oui, monsieur, I too really like most of the music I hear on 88.9. And I do understand enough of the French to appreciate it, even tho' I'm still miffed that my favorite announcer was "not renewed" on the service earlier this year. it's still so much more pleasant to hear than the new programming on its English CBC counterpart on 92.1 -- and no Seattle area non comms come close to the music segues, mix, or even just the relaxed tone of Espace Musique on 88.9. Except maybe KPLU...

 

[FMSteve]

This PLU Satellator robot Class A will indeed be hammered by CBUX FM1. Apparently the American's are ok with accepting this interference. In normal circumstances in the U.S. for an allocation to be accepted you have to have no interference caused nor received, or be in the table of allotments.

In return, PLU (KPYU) gets limited coverage up in Skagit County. They are asking for the non-studio waiver.

Here's a map of the interference received on the last page of the document.
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101279194&qnum=5150&copynum=1&exhcnum=1

As for your interference issues, I would suggest you purchase a really bad radio with no selectivity. Then you will just get KMIH or KPYU exclusivley flipping back and forth rather than all three signals, depending upon where you are currently located.

 

[Bongwater]

This PLU Satellator robot Class A will indeed be hammered by CBUX FM1. Apparently the American's are ok with accepting this interference. In normal circumstances in the U.S. for an allocation to be accepted you have to have no interference caused nor received, or be in the table of allotments.

In return, PLU (KPYU) gets limited coverage up in Skagit County. They are asking for the non-studio waiver.

Here's a map of the interference received on the last page of the document.
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101279194&qnum=5150&copynum=1&exhcnum=1

As for your interference issues, I would suggest you purchase a really bad radio with no selectivity. Then you will just get KMIH or KPYU exclusivley flipping back and forth rather than all three signals, depending upon where you are currently located.

OUCH!

This looks a lot worse than I expected. I'll even venture to suggest it's even better to just leave the often hashy in Mount Vernon 91.1 translator (thanks to CJZN 91.3) alone.

CBUX-FM1's 88.9 MHz signal ain't nothing to be messed with on the hills of Mount Vernon. For a station 52 miles directly west away (as the crow flies), they might as well be 52 FEET away up on LaVenture. The 4 watt Jesuscaster on 89.1 isn't even mentionable and I have my doubts even KPYU's 2,500 watts coming from a cell tower riddled hillside slightly northeast of Burlington can put much of a dent in it.....