LPAM in or around Indianapolis?

[butlerguy03]

Are there any current LPAM stations operating in Indianapolis? Community radio is NEEDED badly in some of these suburban counties and outer ring of townships in Marion County.

Also, how do you think a 1-mile LPAM would do in a mostly suburban neighborhood? I think if it was done right, good weather, school info, ect. you could get mom's to listen in the morning and people to flip it over when they needed to know something about the local neighborhoods--something you would never find on the big, corporate stations in town.

 

[EStreeter]

Great Idea! However, it's not much of a reality any more. The fact is, a lot of these little towns don't have the little town mentalities they once did. A lot of people that make up these communities have moved in from the big cities and still have that same thinking process. They go to big city sources to get their information.

My town is that way. Completely different now from the one I grew up in. High school sports and community events are not all that important to them because they are still so closely tied to the Indy market and things that happen there. It's a shame, because it encourages radio management to ignore local populations and issues that are important to many in the community. Also, the mom and pop businesses that used to make local radio work are getting swallowed up by bigger chains. And the bigger chains have very little interest in local advertising.

I kind of thought HD was going to perhaps bring a little of the local radio back. I know WKLU orgionally had a plan to do something like that when I was their with one of there HD stations. But I guess the HD market has, as many predicted, gone nowhere. So apparently that isn't going to happen either. I think in order to make it work, you would have to have a signal that could hit the entire county. That way you could have a variety of businesses to pick from and maybe get lucky to land a few.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I think in order to make it work, you would have to have a signal that could hit the entire county. That way you could have a variety of businesses to pick from and maybe get lucky to land a few.

And that is HD's shortfall...coverage. It would take a 50KW signal in the midst of the county to balnket every corner in HD...and as we all know, the counties that had those signals have lost them to the Indy market long ago. If HD ever becomes a stand alone product that isn't just a token carrier hitching a ride near an analog signal, this may change. That's not even being discussed at this point. And by the time it does happen (if ever) and radios to receive it are common place, those who have those fond memories of local radio will all be gone. Local radio does still exist...just listen to WCBK 102.3 Martinsville next time a severe storm with damage goes through there. But for every community minded WCBK, there's a dozen or more music marathons in progress while the station staff is hunkered down at home watching the Weather Channel...

 

[Timewarp]

The FCC only allows one tenth watt and no more than ten feet of antenna for unlicensed broadcasting
on the AM band. I have noticed a few part 15 broadcasters above 1600 KHz in Indy.

 

[butlerguy03]

The FCC only allows one tenth watt and no more than ten feet of antenna for unlicensed broadcasting
on the AM band. I have noticed a few part 15 broadcasters above 1600 KHz in Indy.

That's exactly what I had in mind...reach a few neighborhoods in a good location.

 

[radioho]

If you are doing it legally - you CANNOT reach a "few" neighborhoods, lucky to reach down the street. You'll need to dig into this VERY carefully, the FCC does not mess around with Pirates, and that's what you are if you reach more than a few backyards.

They sell 'units' for this purpose, but if you mount the provided antannae ANYWHERE other than the back of the unit, you are in violation of FCC rules. If you leave it on the back of the unit, it's a waste of time. Unless you're doing it for a sporting event, drive-in movie lot, parking lot, etc.

Even Bruce Quinn couldn't get away with this these days.

Otherwise, wouldn't there be little stations like you're trying to do in EVERY neighborhood? Then how would the frequencies NOT be impaired?

Bottom line, great idea, but throw the thought out of your mind. There are plenty of churches, etc. that have tried this and the FCC takes their equipment AND hits them with huge fines.

If you have to come on here and ask about it, it means you have NOT done your homework. THis is NOT an area you want to delve into if you have not THOROUGHLY done your due diligence.

Trying to save you a lot of time, frustration and money.

go here for more info: http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?board=186.0

this is NOT something for an amatuer.

 

[Timewarp]

If you are a School, the FCC will let you put a strong signal all over your campus without a license.
You might be able to cover a town.

If you are an average Joe, the FCC will let you broadcast as far as one tenth watt into ten
feet of antenna wil go on AM. That might be a mile or so a good AM radio in a noise free area.

If your signal goes more than 300 feet, you must be able to say, "I built it myself."

If you have engineering expertise, the FCC expects you to know how to use a field strength meter
and you are limited to 300 feet.

Broadcasting without a license may get you a visit from the FCC at any time.

 

[radioho]

If you are an average Joe, the FCC will let you broadcast as far as one tenth watt into ten
feet of antenna wil go on AM. That might be a mile or so a good AM radio in a noise free area.

You can cover a mile, but you will be illegal. A mile is a LONG distance when talking about LPAM, and you are INVITING the FCC to visit. You are not going to get more than 200-300 feet without violating FCC rules.

To do what you want, be a neighborhood station, you have to cover a good area, even 1 miles isn't going to be worthwhile. Fun hobby, but unless you are Bruce Quinn, or an attorney to defend yourself, give this idea up. Many have tried, many have failed, many have paid a HUGE fine.

And actually, this thread should be moved. there is an entire community on Radio-Info devoted to this.

 

[Flying-Dutchman]

The FCC has made many changes to part 15 unlicensed transmitting over the years. Some
exciting things like long distance wireless networks. They have however reduced how much
power you can use on FM. It's one tenth of what you could have in 1970.
On AM, there is a rule that dosen't limit your range. One tenth watt, ten feet of antenna, you
built it yourself, and you are not a broadcast engineer.
There are community stations operating this way and the FCC says they are legal. If you
are interested in this, you should contact the FCC engineers in Chicago and discuss your plans. They
might give you some tips.

 

[butlerguy03]

If you are doing it legally - you CANNOT reach a "few" neighborhoods, lucky to reach down the street. You'll need to dig into this VERY carefully, the FCC does not mess around with Pirates, and that's what you are if you reach more than a few backyards.

They sell 'units' for this purpose, but if you mount the provided antannae ANYWHERE other than the back of the unit, you are in violation of FCC rules. If you leave it on the back of the unit, it's a waste of time. Unless you're doing it for a sporting event, drive-in movie lot, parking lot, etc.

Even Bruce Quinn couldn't get away with this these days.

Otherwise, wouldn't there be little stations like you're trying to do in EVERY neighborhood? Then how would the frequencies NOT be impaired?

Bottom line, great idea, but throw the thought out of your mind. There are plenty of churches, etc. that have tried this and the FCC takes their equipment AND hits them with huge fines.

If you have to come on here and ask about it, it means you have NOT done your homework. THis is NOT an area you want to delve into if you have not THOROUGHLY done your due diligence.

Trying to save you a lot of time, frustration and money.

go here for more info: http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?board=186.0

this is NOT something for an amatuer.

Wow, back off a little buddy. I didn't say I was going to do this tomorrow. I was just floating the idea, and noting how ineffective the local media is in covering events outside the mile square. You almost sound like the idea would hurt a station you might be connected with.

Just to let you know, I have been posting in the community radio forum at the same time. They all seem to think it's a good idea if I do it right...I understand the legal aspects, and with a decent LPAM 100mw kit with attached antenna, you can get a good mile range between 1630-1710.

If the FCC won't legally adopt LPAM for individual and commercial use, pirate radio will become a big problem, because most people want to know a little about where they live. Believe it or not, people in many of the donut counties around Indianapolis don't consider themselves from Indianapolis.

From what I can tell is that it is the 'new' HAM.

 

[butlerguy03]

The FCC has made many changes to part 15 unlicensed transmitting over the years. Some
exciting things like long distance wireless networks. They have however reduced how much
power you can use on FM. It's one tenth of what you could have in 1970.
On AM, there is a rule that dosen't limit your range. One tenth watt, ten feet of antenna, you
built it yourself, and you are not a broadcast engineer.
There are community stations operating this way and the FCC says they are legal. If you
are interested in this, you should contact the FCC engineers in Chicago and discuss your plans. They
might give you some tips.

Thank you for the note. I will contact them and find out exactly what I can do...maybe even invite them down to check me out. I'm all for doing this the right way.

 

[Flying-Dutchman]

You may recall that Butler and IU operated unlicensed part 15 AM stations.
Because they are schools, they were allowed to run some power. WBTU, Butler
could be heard in much of Indianapolis. WIUS, IU could be heard all over
Bloomington.
Part 15 stations are legal. But they might get out like a pirate. That is why it
is important to contact the FCC field office and let them know that you are part
15 and not a pirate. They will work with you.

 

[butlerguy03]

You may recall that Butler and IU operated unlicensed part 15 AM stations.
Because they are schools, they were allowed to run some power. WBTU, Butler
could be heard in much of Indianapolis. WIUS, IU could be heard all over
Bloomington.
Part 15 stations are legal. But they might get out like a pirate. That is why it
is important to contact the FCC field office and let them know that you are part
15 and not a pirate. They will work with you.

I actually worked at WRBU while I was there in the late 90's. That was well after they sold 104.5, so I guess that may have been at part 15.

 

[RDO]

http://www.lpam.net/

 

[hipporadio]

If you’re serious about doing this, make your first MANDITORY pit stop at the Hamilton website...

http://www.am1000rangemaster.com/index.html

Beyond offering you a VERY GOOD LEGAL Part 15 transmitter; these folks have A LOT of info, user feedback, and links. The Rangemaster TX is exceptional [given the application] – don’t even consider any alternative—especially those notorious kits. Many times, once the FCC becomes acquainted with your use of the Hamilton product—many “evil assumptions” fade... In fact, you may want to actually notify their Chicago field office and REQUEST AN INSPECTION! That usually puts them in a copasetic mood.

The trick is in the antenna – and there are several that enhance range and pass FCC scrutiny. An earlier post that mentioned an operation becoming illegal if its antenna was moved from the back of the transmitter; I suspect was an analogy for FM—where there is a definite field strength/distance limitation. Unlike Part 15 operation on the FM band, there is NO such limitation when operating on the AM band. If you get a nice bump from a well-thought and constructed system on AM; abide by the 100-milliwatt power/3-meter antenna length; and cause NO interference to another licensed service—the FCC will likely concede and move-on to the next “costume malfunction”.

This topic begs the question: "How far can one transmit with 100 mW at AM’s upper extreme?" Actually, the "X-band" provides two benefits for low-power AM broadcasting. The limit on antenna length [3 meters] is a constant [regardless of frequency], and is electrically-taller and more efficient at these frequencies. The 1620-1700kHz spectrum has fewer stations and is much lower in the RFI and noise that could easily clobber a 100mW signal – especially at night.

Coverage will depend on your antenna system/placement; the physical environment around your TX site; and the ground conductivity within your area. A mile+ [maybe TWO] is a conservative bet, but I know of a few awesome exceptions that are FULLY LEGAL. One on Hilton Head winds its way through miles of inter-coastal salt marsh, and can be "heard" [albeit ON the beach and poorly] 10 air-miles away on the south shore of Parris Island. It covers most of HHI – even at night! This station has an ingenious antenna design [in salt water]; mast-mounted Rangemaster; and sophisticated commercial audio processing [Aphex/TCElectronic multi-band digital/Inovonics]. Salt water and Part 15 AM are natural allies, but Mother Nature doesn’t afford you that benefit in high ‘n dry central Indiana.

“ION Radio” serves the private ION community across the Cooper River from Charleston, SC. They solidly cover the 1.5 x 2-mile neighborhood and much of Mount Pleasant and Sullivan’s Island. They have exceptional sound and an appreciative audience.

Here a couple other well-executed examples:

http://www.toddjenkins.com/radio17/

http://www.wtyb.com/

 

[iluvri07]

I think if it was done right, good weather, school info, ect. you could get mom's to listen in the morning and people to flip it over when they needed to know something about the local neighborhoods--something you would never find on the big, corporate stations in town.

WEst side Indy? Pick either Wayne Township or Speedway. Separate communites that don't have much interest in each other. You won't be able to serve either if you try to serve both.