LUBBOCK RATINGS?

[rockchicktx]

Looks like 105.3 is doing terrible. Not surprising to me. Changing from JACK to Country was a terrible idea. There is no way they can ever beat out the legendary KLLL.

With that said, I know they weren't doing well with JACK either. But I think changing to country just added to the wound.

I understand that Neely Yates left 96.3 and just started at 105.3...

You are correct, sir. I believe Amy Lee has taken Neely Yates' place. While KJDL might have Neely Yates from KLLL, they have a very very long way to go if they want to come up higher than KLLL, which I think is nearly impossible. KLLL would have to implode for KJDL to EVER beat them. Despite their upgraded tower, their coverage area still isn't that great.

I find it truly hilarious that anyone thinks that "Neely Yates" might actually be a factor in any ratings...positive or not. How a move so irrelevant and inconsequential would make a blip at all is laughable. Rick and Jane can't even stack up anymore and they were more a part of KLLL than any middayer...it's not a slam on her but listeners are rarely tied to a dj...its usually to the station.

 

[DG]

Okay...it's apparent no one here is IN radio, because you're all quoting 12+ numbers which mean nothing...

It's obvious you don't know the rules for posting copyrighted data from Arbitron:

"For local newspapers, Arbitron provides the press with access to Persons 12+ AQH Shares for diary markets, Persons 6+ for PPM markets (Scarborough is Persons 18+). Any estimate beyond the broadest demographic goes beyond the bounds of "fair use" in the U.S. Copyright Act. Beyond the broadest estimates, you may provide a reporter with any of your station's audience estimates, but you must keep your analysis of estimates for other stations to a characterization. Do not send rankers to a reporter."

True, the real strength in ratings is to find your core demo, which is rarely ever 12+, but posting that info on a public website apparently runs afoul of the copyright rules. I tried to make a strong case for non-comms competing very well against their commercial counterparts last year, and got raked over the coals for not being able to "prove it" with any numbers. Well, I have the numbers, but am not allowed to share them beyond what the rules allow. So we're stuck to speaking in general terms, with those of us with the numbers in hand knowing the real score.

...As for TTU-the defenders are laughable. You're comparing one apple to two oranges. Not only did TTU did not equal the numbers KKAM had last year, lets not forget that the games were also broadcast on KFMX! If their broadcast were decent at all, they should have some numbers that show that they took the product off not one, but two stations. As I've been saying all along, TTU is crap and now that football season is over, they have nothing to sell for nine months. If I was one of their salesmen, I'd switch over to door to door meat sales.

I think I can explain that- Texas Tech has its best football season in the Fall of 2008. I don't think one game a week on FMX would show up in the overall numbers, but KKAM's last best showing was that book. I agree, I wouldn't expect a Sports/Talk in this town to fare well in the Spring while the dominant local sport is dormant. KTTU's 4.3 last Spring was actually KSTQ's last numbers, so this next book will be the tell, and I don't expect them to post much better than KKAM did.

 

[Old Nick]

Giving the posting rules is a cop out. You could always say, "did well in their demo(s)" or some variation without running afoul of copywrite rules. In fact, there are stations in this book, as there are in every book, who took a hit overall, but went up in their targets-yet people on these boards quote the 12+ to predict gloom and doom for them. These people are just showing the paintbrush and not the whole picture.

 

[Garrett]

At first I thougt, how much longer will Bradmar stick with that sorry "Stars" format? Stations with better numbers have had much shorter runs over there. Why is this DAWG of a format still alive and kicking?

But then, I looked at Kiss, and KLZK tied Mix and beat Kiss.
Since these are general numbers and similar demos, might the 12's be reflective here?

How is it possible that this dawg of a station is beating those other two?

 

[cspotrun]

At first I thougt, how much longer will Bradmar stick with that sorry "Stars" format? Stations with better numbers have had much shorter runs over there. Why is this DAWG of a format still alive and kicking?

But then, I looked at Kiss, and KLZK tied Mix and beat Kiss.
Since these are general numbers and similar demos, might the 12's be reflective here?

How is it possible that this dawg of a station is beating those other two?

"Beating"? i think its more like, Mix & Kiss have dropped down to "Their Level"... formats that stake their success in 18-24's & 18-34's took a hit this time. Mix will be back, Kiss? its over kids and KLZK needs some help if they want to break out.

 

[nutpos]

sure is a lot of spin going on here....

 

[Garrett]

No, just someone's tragic cynicism and lack of any actual knowledge of the business getting in the way of an actual answer.

Why is KLZK beating Mix, and Kiss? Why are Mix and Kiss losing to this dawg of a format?
I still haven't heard an answer yet.

 

[nutpos]

Sorry Garrett, I wasn't referring to your questions, (while valid as heck), I was actually referring to the complete spin job on the sports side. I hadn't seen that much spin since the merry go round got going in a wind gust...

 

[static]

Lots of cynicism. I'll preface again by saying I haven't worked in the business in a long time. I believe DG has several good points about radio in general and he sounds like a veteran. On the sports station, though, I imagine their fine with lower 12+ numbers of 104.3. Would advertisers rather talk to the people who listen to sports or listen to rap music? I bet the numbers are different when you get down to targeted age groups.

And for the comparison of year to year for fall on who had sports, there used to be one sports station now there is two. This year 104.3 had nearly the same numbers as 1340, meaning hardly anybody is listening to 1340 anymore. Just connecting some dots but I'm assuming the guy talking about 1340 ratings is the same Bob who comes on the Williams and Hyatt show and talks about Houston sports. I'm jsut assuming from the username, but anytime that guy is on, I think they call him Houston Bob or Texans Bob, I've got to change the channel. I still listen to Ryan Hyatt some but 104.3 has gotten better in the afternoons with just Casey on there. Its not as good as 5 or 10 years ago but Hyatt still has some good shows.

As for Old Nick on where the football games were, I believe for the last few years it was 1340 and the rock station that had the football games. It was better when they were on KFYO. But this year the games were on 104.3, FOX Talk AM950 and also there mexican music station. They also advertised in the paper it was on TV 34-2, so really the games moved from 2 stations to either 3 or 4, however you count. I don't see why there would be a major letdown after football to the point of throwing the towel in. Football is probably where the ratings are for radio and TV anywhere, but 104.3 has the Tech basketball and baseball broadcasts and I think the Rangers again. Even if the Tech basketball would only be good if they let Mark Finkner do the games by himself. I can't stand the other guy.

I spent a bit of time earlier this month along the Gulf coast from Texas to Alabama and last month in central Texas. Radio is actually pretty good in Lubbock compared to lots of other cities.

 

[cspotrun]

No, just someone's tragic cynicism and lack of any actual knowledge of the business getting in the way of an actual answer.

Why is KLZK beating Mix, and Kiss? Why are Mix and Kiss losing to this dawg of a format?
I still haven't heard an answer yet.

c'mon! EVERYBODY knows its their Superb Programming, Music, Meredith in The Morning, Ryan Seacrest & Delilah!
ask a silly question get a silly answer.
satisfied?

 

[DG]

Giving the posting rules is a cop out...

No, it explains why you will only ever see 12+ numbers in the public domain. There are very stringent rules for how a station can use those numbers, and Arbitron dictates what those rules are. Whether the ratings are good or bad is irrelevant- I don't know anyone at any station in this market that would risk drawing Arbitron's ire in posting numbers they shouldn't. I would think anyone that's worked in commercial radio would know better Old Nick, and to think that I'm the non-comm guy telling you this.

...You could always say, "did well in their demo(s)" or some variation without running afoul of copywrite rules...

I suppose you could, but I'm still trying to get a good handle on what MY station's demos are, let alone the stations across town. Simply put, I really don't know what the demos are for Mix, Beat, etc, and I really don't care. I just think it interesting that KBTE topped KLLL, not because their ratings were necessarily better, but because I think the book was crap. I can't prove it, but it does make for nice banter on an Internet radio forum. Music formats were not really ever my forte, so I leave that discussion to the others, and read with great interest what they have to say. It's excellent entertainment to see others (and myself) define what those numbers must mean for the stations at the top and bottom.

Did KBTE start doing something different last Fall? Correlating the numbers with programming is the fun of the game, but I don't listen to that station and couldn't tell you one way or the other. I'm sure others who post regularly can however.

...In fact, there are stations in this book, as there are in every book, who took a hit overall, but went up in their targets-yet people on these boards quote the 12+ to predict gloom and doom for them. These people are just showing the paintbrush and not the whole picture.

I agree completely, and such was the case for my stations too, but I can't post the exact numbers that support my point. I don't know that 12+ numbers are being used to support "doom and gloom" quotes necessarily as you put it, since afterall, they are the only numbers you can legally discuss. But there are still some interesting declines and increases to debate plenty about. And remember, it's Arbitron that doesn't want you to see the whole picture- at least not without paying for it. That would kinda put them outta business otherwise.

 

[DG]

Lots of cynicism. I'll preface again by saying I haven't worked in the business in a long time. I believe DG has several good points about radio in general and he sounds like a veteran. On the sports station, though, I imagine their fine with lower 12+ numbers of 104.3. Would advertisers rather talk to the people who listen to sports or listen to rap music? I bet the numbers are different when you get down to targeted age groups...

EXACTLY. It all boils down to what you can sell. Jack FM may have had better numbers, but Dave Walker will tell you he's selling True Country better than he did with Jack. And it makes a certain amount of sense that sports sells better in Lubbock than "rhythmic contemporary hit radio" or whatever they called KSTQ.

Isn't "what sells" the mantra of the commercial radio biz? I thought it was, but then I just shake my head and wonder how Spanish-religious could sell better than Real Country. I certainly don't know.

My bold predictions for Lubbock Radio in 2010:

- KKAM drops the sports/talk and Hyatt finds a home elsewhere (not necessarily KTTU)

- The Rebel's Real Country Format gets resurrected

 

[EggsOverEasy87]

I took a listen to KISS today and they have finally started making new station bumpers to be played in between songs. Definitely sounds much better than the other ones. They have a different voiceover and everything.

This should have been done a LONG time ago!

 

[Garrett]

Really? I'll have to take a listen. They use different promos with a different VO person during the Jackson Blue show. You sure you didn't hear those?

 

[EggsOverEasy87]

Yes. Positive. Heard them in the afternoon today. They even have a different guy that mumbles "KZII-FM Lubbock" at the top of the hour.

In other words, NOT the same guy as they had when it was Z102. Or maybe it is the same guy, but they are adding "effects" in the voice over.

Sounds better in my opinion...sort of reminds me of the station bumpers they play on Kiss in Midland.

 

[Garrett]

Ok, heard the new sweepers.

Hate them.
I could see this voice working in conjunction with another voice. But being Lubbock, it's going to be the same sweepers with the same VO FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS. Think we'll get bored? YUP! As usuall, 102.5 (except for their dj's) is being run with the least effort possible. But then, CHR is very expensive to run, low returns, so I guess you have to cut somewhere.

Since KISS in Midland and KISS in Amarillo are essentially all related to KISS in Lubbock, I wouldn't be surprised if they are ALL using the same VO's. In fact, I'm more surprised that GAP doesn't just run one big trimulcast.

It's not unlike the FZX, FMX thing, I guess.


Changing the sweepers will do NOTHING if thats all they change. It's the formatic that needs to be changed. Element-wise, 10.5 has no Top of the hour clock-set kicker. That's a problem for me. But everyone has different programing styles.

 

[EggsOverEasy87]

Ok, heard the new sweepers.

Hate them.
I could see this voice working in conjunction with another voice. But being Lubbock, it's going to be the same sweepers with the same VO FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS. Think we'll get bored? YUP! As usuall, 102.5 (except for their dj's) is being run with the least effort possible. But then, CHR is very expensive to run, low returns, so I guess you have to cut somewhere.

Since KISS in Midland and KISS in Amarillo are essentially all related to KISS in Lubbock, I wouldn't be surprised if they are ALL using the same VO's. In fact, I'm more surprised that GAP doesn't just run one big trimulcast.

It's not unlike the FZX, FMX thing, I guess.


Changing the sweepers will do NOTHING if thats all they change. It's the formatic that needs to be changed. Element-wise, 10.5 has no Top of the hour clock-set kicker. That's a problem for me. But everyone has different programing styles.

Hate them or not, I still think they sound better than the old ones. But do agree that they will get repetitive after awhile...And that changing the VO will do nothing if that's all that is changed.

You said something like this a long time ago: "You can't just call a station KISS FM and call it a changed station."

I think the numbers have shown that big time.

 

[crow]

So... in a market like Lubbock... do the ratings at any point actually provoke the change of a station? I'm not talking about that FM of DW's.... I just don't see it as a station that makes any difference. I'm talking about the Top 10 stations. Yes, Z changed to Kiss... but that wasn't a REAL change. It was just a new paint job and less live staff. I am talking a format change... or even the idea of possibly adding live staff? I guess what I am asking is... at what point, if there is one, does the Corp of a cluster say... it's time for a change... something new. Or is it just a matter of... the ratings don't really matter as long as we are selling spots and keeping the breaks full etc...

Just curious.

 

[Garrett]

So... in a market like Lubbock... do the ratings at any point actually provoke the change of a station? I'm not talking about that FM of DW's.... I just don't see it as a station that makes any difference. I'm talking about the Top 10 stations. Yes, Z changed to Kiss... but that wasn't a REAL change. It was just a new paint job and less live staff. I am talking a format change... or even the idea of possibly adding live staff? I guess what I am asking is... at what point, if there is one, does the Corp of a cluster say... it's time for a change... something new. Or is it just a matter of... the ratings don't really matter as long as we are selling spots and keeping the breaks full etc...

Just curious.

Sadly Crow, I think that the cluster owners look at the size of the market and think pretty much that: Don't invest more than is needed to sell the spots. I don't see it changing, I see it getting worse... So long as the computer keeps it polished, they probably figure that most of Z102's (oops, I mean, KISS FM's) are students from Dallas, and won't really pay much attention so long as they get their dose of Pink, or Lady Gaga.

Sad, but I think that's the reality. I'm getting the feeling that ratings don't matter too much here. At least, not the traditional ratings we're used to hearing about.

 

[cspotrun]

if ratings don't mean anything there is ONE group that is paying Big Money to read the misery.